The Financial Results Thread

[D.P.]

Exactly this, market share as a percentage also isn't a big a indicator of profit either, I could have 99% of the market, but if the market is shrinking and worth $10 this year, and was worth $1000 last year then I would have preferred a 50% share last year, than what I have now.

The crypto bubble caused a huge temporary gain for sales, and as a result has actually caused sales to go the opposite way after the crash due to huge over supply in the marker for both of the major manufacturers. NVDA are trading at $148, down almost 50% in 5 months, and that is looking like it is going to continue as GPU sales are lagging behind due to the hang over from the crypto bubble, and from Nvidia a less than luke warm reception for their new technology.

Except the market still prefers Nvidia's GPUs and prices to AMD's and how ever badly Nvidia was suffering from oversupplied channel, AMD was worse, as Bourne our by the massive market share shift.

AMD need to be careful they don't fall in to irrelevance at this rate

 

[andybird123]

We're talking about investing. Money competes with money.

An investor is going to look at what's going to give him the best returns, not what company sells more GPUs.

that only becomes relevant if nvidia need to borrow more from the market and needs investors to buy shares to fund it, nvidia actually have a massive warchest and are buying up their own shares at the cheaper price

 

[Journey]

But frankly who cares about investors, this is a GPU forum

So get out of this thread then, since this topic is about finances

 

[DarrenM343]

Good job Nvidia made mountains of profit which is why they still has an insanely high p/e.

But frankly who cares about investors, this is a GPU forum

Insanely high? have you seen AMD;s PE ratio?
According to the app I use, AMD is 68.97, NV is 22.52, Intel is 11.74. While NV is high compared to Intel, AMD is way out there . ZEN2 is key. Intel on PE is quite cheap especially when you consider Intel pay 2.4% dividend at the moment. AMD pay nothing at all. NVidia pay a small amount, < 1% from memory.
In other words, if AMD share price halved, it would still have a higher P/E ratio than Nvidia. Nvidia do great at profit per unit. AMD are quite the recovery investment. Intel is one of those companies you know will produce safe returns over the years (not guaranteed of course).

In the past AMD has been a bit of a case of buy the hype and sell once the products are released. Hopefully it'll be different this time.

 

[Kaapstad]

Graphics card market tech wise from an investors point of view is a total mess as none of the vendors are selling the right products at the right price.

NVidia Turing is a total joke, very power efficient but totally ruined by using massive chips to enable Ray Tracing and DLSS resulting in stupid pricing.

AMD are still selling old designs that can not match NVidia in power efficiency and even the new 7nm VII is a bit disappointing here.

Intel are no where to be seen yet and even when they do arrive there is no guarantee that their products will be any good.

Lack of competition has allowed NVidia to sell people what they think users should have rather than competitive products driven by markets forces.

Dies anywhere near the size of the ones used in the TU102 cards should never have seen the light of day on any node as they are just too expensive to produce for the gaming market.

 

[D.P.]

So get out of this thread then, since this topic is about finances

It is about the finances of 2 GPU companies, not about finances and investments in general. There is a thread in GD about he real investing.


Within the context of this thread, the fact that Nvidia grew their market share substantially is really important.

The fact that the total market actually shrank means it is even more important to grow market share.

 

[D.P.]

Insanely high? have you seen AMD;s PE ratio?
According to the app I use, AMD is 68.97, NV is 22.52, Intel is 11.74. While NV is high compared to Intel, AMD is way out there . ZEN2 is key. Intel on PE is quite cheap especially when you consider Intel pay 2.4% dividend at the moment. AMD pay nothing at all. NVidia pay a small amount, < 1% from memory.
In other words, if AMD share price halved, it would still have a higher P/E ratio than Nvidia. Nvidia do great at profit per unit. AMD are quite the recovery investment. Intel is one of those companies you know will produce safe returns over the years (not guaranteed of course).

In the past AMD has been a bit of a case of buy the hype and sell once the products are released. Hopefully it'll be different this time.

Which is why I would never touch AMDs share with a barge pole right now, exactly as wouldn't have touched Nvidia's (and still wkbt).

The shares arrived with an expectation that AMD will massively increase profits, far beyond even AMD's forecast.

Given their position in consumer GPUs, complete absense in automotive, anemic HPC sales and as amazing as Ryzen is the continued momentum of Intel, there is just no way AMD will be making those hundred billion dollar profits the shares would indicate

 

[Kaapstad]

https://www.techpowerup.com/253489/nvidia-to-acquire-mellanox-technology-for-usd-6-9-billion

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://www.techpowerup.com/253489/nvidia-to-acquire-mellanox-technology-for-usd-6-9-billion

They need to cover those costs,so expect us gamers to at least have to partially cover such costs longterm and the other companies will happily tag along too!

 

[D.P.]

They need to cover those costs,so expect us gamers to at least have to partially cover such costs longterm and the other companies will happily tag along too!

Nonsense, Nvidia just paid for this out of their piggy bank.

the value will come form their ever growing HPC and datacenter revenue that will likely overtime consumer revenue in a few years time.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nonsense, Nvidia just paid for this out of their piggy bank.

the value will come form their ever growing HPC and datacenter revenue that will likely overtime consumer revenue in a few years time.

Oh so you are saying they don't use a penny of the money gained from consumer sales(which are nearly 2/3 of their revenue IIRC) to fund forays elsewhere? I was under the impression that they were using consumer sales to help fund their numerous movements into other areas for the last 10 years like Intel and AMD have done.

So you have inside information graphics card prices won't go up past inflation for the immediate future?? Thanks for confirming. I was getting a bit worried there,especially as AMD would follow suit and Intel too.

 

[DarrenM343]

Oh so you are saying they don't use a penny of the money gained from consumer sales(which are nearly 2/3 of their revenue IIRC) to fund forays elsewhere? I was under the impression that they were using consumer sales to help fund their numerous movements into other areas for the last 10 years like Intel and AMD have done.

So you have inside information graphics card prices won't go up past inflation for the next few years?? Thanks for confirming. I was getting a bit worried there,especially as AMD will follow suit and Intel too.

It's from consumer sales to, it's just profit, but it doesn't necessarily mean prices will rise in the future because of it. Same as companies making other acquisitions.
GPU prices will probably rise higher than inflation but that's a given anyway - nothing to do with this acquisition. Lots of other things often rise higher than inflation too.. NV will probably push margins further in the area impacted by this acquisition - data centres.
NV could actually dilute shareholders a bit to help pay for it.
Good to see they outbid Intel anyway

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It's from consumer sales to, it's just profit, but it doesn't necessarily mean prices will rise in the future because of it. Same as companies making other acquisitions.
GPU prices will probably rise higher than inflation but that's a given anyway - nothing to do with this acquisition. Lots of other things often rise higher than inflation too.. NV will probably push margins further in the area impacted by this acquisition - data centres.
NV could actually dilute shareholders a bit to help pay for it.
Good to see they outbid Intel anyway

The issue is they start depleting savings,etc and start going on a spending spree like most of these companies,they will look to further monetise the current markets which are more of a known quantity to support it short term. Some of the other markets they have entered,are now seeing some largish companies now entering the fray so I can't see them being able to endlessly increase prices even there.
Consumer graphics is the area they have the least competition - AMD cannot compete and I find it unlikely Intel with their first try could compete too.

Its partly why Intel segmented as much as they could in consumer areas,to push into new markets as it was safe for them, as there is always a risk some of these purchases won't work out and there is a risk entering new markets. Nvidia has been doing the same for years,and do people think those large Turing chips are being developed primarily for gamers?? They were developed to enter the VFX market,and end consumers like us gamers are paying for the increased costs of that foray right now.

Most of the "battle chest" has come from consumer sales,so in the short term it will be consumer sales which need to at least partially sustain all of this. This is the reason why consumer card pricing was going up a larger rate than actual costs(and why Nvidia margins have significantly increased partly in line with the upward increase in end user price despite consumer sales being the bigger part of things for years).

Also I can't see AMD even with competitive products trying to massively undercut Nvidia at all,as they are pretty much looking outside gaming too. Their first 7nm GPU wasn't developed primarily with gaming in mind and even 7NM Zen was first demoed as commercial product.

Anyway we will see - maybe I need to be less cynical!

 

[andybird123]

Lmao, Battle chest is a thing from world of warcraft. The financial term is war chest.

 

[mid_gen]

The idea that consumers are going to have to pay more to fund this purchase is absolutely laughable. That's not how corporate finance works.

 

[Squid Vicious]

Interesting to see reports that Turing selling 45% more than Pascal in the first 8 weeks of revenue - doesn't seem to quite line-up with previous reports that sales fell significantly predictions.

Or is it simply that even though unit sales were below expectation they still achieved higher revenue given the extremely high retail price...

Some analysis over at wccftech - terrible clickbaity site for most things, but have been quick with an initial analysis of the results.

The NVidia Investor Day presentation is here https://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/files/doc_presentations/2019/03/Investor_Day_2019.pdf

WCCFTECH coverage here https://wccftech.com/nvidia-turing-...-than-pascal-in-first-eight-weeks-of-revenue/

 

[bru]

Thing to remember is that with pascal only the 1080 and 1070 were availible at launch, where as Turing had all three top end cards.
So the possibility of there being more demand right from the start doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Kaapstad]

Thing to remember is that with pascal only the 1080 and 1070 were availible at launch, where as Turing had all three top end cards.
So the possibility of there being more demand right from the start doesn't surprise me at all.

Not all the top Turing cards were available at launch, having said that hardly anyone has bought the RTX Titan.

As to other Turing card sales IIRC the pascal cards sold much faster if you combine the TROH boards.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Turing also scaled up higher in price,and IIRC Pascal was in short supply for the first few months.

 

[DarrenM343]

Not all the top Turing cards were available at launch, having said that hardly anyone has bought the RTX Titan.

As to other Turing card sales IIRC the pascal cards sold much faster if you combine the TROH boards.

I might have picked a ref Titan up at £1500. I'm kind of glad they didn't price them at that however as it means I haven't bought one. I'm more looking forward to the next gen now. I've done more gaming with the 2080 than I have for years but still cannot justify a Titan at £2400. Still only using RT with BFV at the moment too, not bought Metro yet.