The Greatest Olympian Ever?

Azza · 2 Aug 2012 at 01:05

Bob Beamon? His long jump OR has stood for nearly 44 years! And it took someone nearly 23 years to beat it.

Weebull · 2 Aug 2012 at 02:43

Azza said:
Bob Beamon? His long jump OR has stood for nearly 44 years! And it took someone nearly 23 years to beat it.

As impressive as it was, it was done at an altitude no games have gotten anywhere near since. It's essentially like setting a track record with a massive tail wind.

awaybreaktoday · 2 Aug 2012 at 04:46

Weebull said:
If Redgrave is so much better than Phelps, why did he only compete in one entry each Olympics (apart from '88)? Rowing has almost as many separate, but essentially identical formats as swimming does. So why didn't he do pair, four, eight, scull and lightweight entries all at once?

Explain to me exactly how Bolt "redefined" the 100m. Because I'm pretty sure it was always about running fast from start to finish.

They said tall men could never run fast in a 100 meters.... Bolt has redefined that view.

To go from 9.86 to 9.72 (Usain Bolt's first world record) took just under seventeen years. Taking roughly the same amount again off the record — 9.72 to 9.58 — has taken Usain Bolt fifteen months.

Bennie-Mac · 2 Aug 2012 at 05:01

Just think, if darts had been an Olympic sport from the beginning Phil Taylor could be the greatest Olympian ever...

jonneymendoza · 2 Aug 2012 at 07:42

The_One said:
wiggins will overtake redgrave as gb's most successful olympian today

and his done it

Egon · 2 Aug 2012 at 07:49

Don't know about the best, but my personal favourite has to be Michael Johnson, he was such a beast on the track and with such an individual style.

Edit: Some of his highlights:
*Only man to win the 200m and 400m gold at the same olympics.
*Held the 200m WR for 16 years.
*Still holds the 400m WR.

Weebull · 2 Aug 2012 at 07:54

awaybreaktoday said:
They said tall men could never run fast in a 100 meters.... Bolt has redefined that view.

Carl Lewis and Asafa Powell are both 6'3"

To go from 9.86 to 9.72 (Usain Bolt's first world record) took just under seventeen years. Taking roughly the same amount again off the record — 9.72 to 9.58 — has taken Usain Bolt fifteen months.

That's not "redefinition," that's just really impressive, within the existing definition of the sport.

dannyjo22 · 2 Aug 2012 at 10:57

semi-pro waster said:
He's never served any sanctions for doping offences although he did test positive for banned substances in Olympic trials for the 1988 Olympics - his argument was that it was due to an over the counter herbal remedy.

Do you believe he was clean really? I read this on the greatest olympian article on the bbc yesterday...

Carl Lewis perhaps should for testing positive for banned substances three times before the 1988 US Olympic trials, and then reacting with a petulant, "There were hundreds of people getting off," when pushed.

I can't help it, I'm a cynic

. I don't think Bolt is clean either. Just the same as when Gatlin was on fire I didn't believe he was clean either. I think it might take a few more years to catch Bolt but they need to look after those samples for a later date

Vonhelmet said:
Even if he was only the 4th best rower in the boat he was still in the team and in the boat and winning.

True enough, let me put it another way. If Phelps was the fourth best swimmer in the 4x400m medley for 5 olympics in a row while others better and faster in the team came and went would we be considering him as an all time great because he was tagged on to the talent of faster individuals in a team?

I admire he consistency over all those years while others did come and go but I don't think it even beats Phelps individual honours let alone with a team as well.

ThomasTheTankEngine · 2 Aug 2012 at 11:43

Really we're comparing apples and oranges.

There aren't many athletes who are able to compete for as many medals as Phelps. I mean look at the deal weightlifters get. You have to master 2 diciplines, (it used to be 3), for only a single medal.

If the olympics favoured weightlifting as much as it does swimming you'd have more than two lifts, and each would have their own individual medal.

Sure, it'd still take an exceptional athlete to win them all, but weightlifting has had "phenoms" like Phelps before... although they only ever get to compete for 3-4 medals over the course of a 12-16 year career.

Vonhelmet · 2 Aug 2012 at 12:14

dannyjo22 said:
True enough, let me put it another way. If Phelps was the fourth best swimmer in the 4x400m medley for 5 olympics in a row while others better and faster in the team came and went would we be considering him as an all time great because he was tagged on to the talent of faster individuals in a team?

It's the nature of team sports. The point is, Redgrave was at least the 4th best rower in the England and arguably the 4th best rower in the world for 16 years.

estebanrey · 2 Aug 2012 at 12:22

Vonhelmet said:
Interesting reading his Wikipedia page, and how we look back on him now as being a big blot on Hitler's Olympic showcase of all things Aryan, forgetting that he went home and had to ride the freight elevator in the hotel to the reception celebrating his success.

Quite and Hitler's 'snubbing' of Owens wasn't even race based but nationality. Hitler only personally congratulated the German athletes, Jesse Owens could have been a blue-eyed, blonde-haired white man he still wouldn't have got the personal congratulation from Adolf because he was an American.

Furthermore Owens in his own words states Hitler did not snub him, but his own president did...

“When I passed the Chancellor, he arose, waved his hand at me and I waved back at him. Hitler didn’t snub me. It was Franklin Delanoe Roosevelt who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram. When I came back to my native country, I couldn’t ride in the front of the bus, I had to go to the back door. I wasn’t invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I certainly wasn’t invited to the White House to shake hands with the president, either.”

Jesse Owens

awaybreaktoday · 2 Aug 2012 at 12:24

Weebull said:
Carl Lewis and Asafa Powell are both 6'3"

That's not "redefinition," that's just really impressive, within the existing definition of the sport.

Quote:

On Saturday he stunned the sprinting world, easily winning the 100 meter dash in world record fashion.

Every commentator and expert kept talking about how Usain Bolt was too big to be a sprinter, too tall and bulky. And I happened to agree.

Sure, he won the 100 meters—and he'll probably easily win the 200m—but how is he using the fact that he is 6'5" as an advantage? How much money is he going to make as a sprinter, in what will be a short career?

Judgeneo · 2 Aug 2012 at 12:27

Yordan from bulgaria deserves a mention. Not the best athlete in the world ever, but its incredible to be doing Olympic level gymnastics in your 40's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yordan_Yovchev

semi-pro waster · 2 Aug 2012 at 12:44

dannyjo22 said:
Do you believe he was clean really? I read this on the greatest olympian article on the bbc yesterday...

Carl Lewis perhaps should for testing positive for banned substances three times before the 1988 US Olympic trials, and then reacting with a petulant, "There were hundreds of people getting off," when pushed.

I can't help it, I'm a cynic . I don't think Bolt is clean either. Just the same as when Gatlin was on fire I didn't believe he was clean either. I think it might take a few more years to catch Bolt but they need to look after those samples for a later date

Short answer is no, I don't believe Carl Lewis was clean although I'm not convinced he was any worse than others of the same era. I think it does affect any claim for him to be the greatest of all time though.

Like you I've got a certain amount of suspicion when anyone decimates a World record, especially as Jamaica has a number of the best runners in the World right now. They've traditionally been good but not quite of the level where no one else gets a look in as far as I can remember. It's a bit sad that this is a first thought now but it appears to be the way sport has gone. I do hope he is clean as I'd love to believe that occasionally there is someone who is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest but history suggests a certain degree of skepticism is merited.

estebanrey · 2 Aug 2012 at 13:11

dannyjo22 · 2 Aug 2012 at 17:26

Vonhelmet said:
It's the nature of team sports. The point is, Redgrave was at least the 4th best rower in the England and arguably the 4th best rower in the world for 16 years.

Absolutely but I don't think that's a feat deserving of the best Olympian we have ever produced let alone the world.

semi-pro waster said:
Short answer is no, I don't believe Carl Lewis was clean although I'm not convinced he was any worse than others of the same era. I think it does affect any claim for him to be the greatest of all time though.

Like you I've got a certain amount of suspicion when anyone decimates a World record, especially as Jamaica has a number of the best runners in the World right now. They've traditionally been good but not quite of the level where no one else gets a look in as far as I can remember. It's a bit sad that this is a first thought now but it appears to be the way sport has gone. I do hope he is clean as I'd love to believe that occasionally there is someone who is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest but history suggests a certain degree of skepticism is merited.

Yeah just like when America had their batch of cheats. It must just be part of the training camp

Andre Cason, Missed the season through injury in 92. Turned up in 93 and ran 9.92 and was part of a team to tie the 4x100m world record. I always wondered what happened to him...

I guess it's got to the stage that it's all just part of the game. If Greene was clean I'm a ninja.

oli collett · 2 Aug 2012 at 20:04

Another issue with Carl Lewis - as the video above shows - he was a complete ***.

The_One · 2 Aug 2012 at 20:56

Another gold for phelps

First swimmer to defend titles at back to back olympics

estebanrey · 2 Aug 2012 at 21:44

The_One said:
Another gold for phelps

First swimmer to defend titles at back to back olympics

Yeah but he enters 8 events every Olympics so he's bound to pick up more golds than most other people who at most enter 3 or 4 events (often only 1 though).

His achievement is fantastic but I'd like to see a table whereby the amount of events you enter is taken into account.

I don't get why there are so many swimming events anyway, like the 100m butterfly for example. You've already got the 100m freestyle where people can do the butterfly if they want.

Vonhelmet · 2 Aug 2012 at 21:51

But no one would win the 100m freestyle doing the butterfly... Freestyle means front crawl. Which gets us back to the argument about there being too many different events when some strokes are clearly better than others speedwise.