The Guardian's Owen Jones attacked outside London pub in a premeditated assault.

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Scam said:
Well, the EDL have marched in the streets along with other far-right groups, quite recently have they not? You're skewing the perspective here anyway. This isn't about Jones fighting fascism and the far-right, it's about the fact he got assaulted in what he deemed to have been a right-wing and/or homophobic attack. And for some reason on this forum about half the poster seem to think he had it coming. Which again, my mind just boggles as to why. And no-one has really posted any evidence to show him inciting violence, as promised.
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And where are the likes of the EDL, Britain First, National Action now?

It's not a perspective Issue as the main argument being put forward is that Owen Jones has been keen to not only not condone violence towards the right, but to actually support it. He has now himself, in his his opinion, been a victim of this violence and the hypocrisy is being highlighted.

Me, my opinion is that this was not an attack prompted by his left wing views and there was something else behind it.

If he would have simply posted that he was duffed up in an unprovoked attack from drunken louts then most people would have had sympathy.as soon as he tried to claim it was far right neo Nazis then people lost sympathy.
 
Thecaferacer said:
It's not a perspective Issue as the main argument being put forward is that Owen Jones has been keen to not only not condone violence towards the right, but to actually support it.
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You can keep repeating "facts" in a Trumpian attempt to make them become true, yet there's still no evidence that he has condoned or supported violence against anyone. Therefore your argument is rather baseless.
 
VincentHanna said:
Did he say "Neo nazis"?

or

Did you just put words in his mouth?
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By Owens extensive postings he uses the term far-right which he believes leads to a straight connecting line to Nazism. So no he didn't specifically used the word neo-nazis, but if you believe that he uses the term far-right without linking it to Nazism then fair enough
 
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Live by the sword and all that I guess - much as I personally don't support such attacks, pretty sure Mr Jones has been pretty vocal with people he dislikes getting attacked. Maybe this will change his attitude, now he's received some of his own medicine - doubt it though.
 
Scam said:
You can keep repeating "facts" in a Trumpian attempt to make them become true, yet there's still no evidence that he has condoned or supported violence against anyone. Therefore your argument is rather baseless.
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Christ man, there has actually been screenshots of what he wrote posted here of him supporting egging and one saying that Richard Spenser should have been punched and that violence is needed to combat the far right. He was widely rounded upon and mocked by members of the left for this. It was widely reported and discussed at the time.

The tweets and Facebook posts are still there! Despite how you personally interpret these posts, when 90% the posters on here state they believe he has endorsed violence, maybe, just maybe he has.
 
This feels like another Jussie Smollett to me, I'm sure he was maybe pushed to the ground, but is there even any evidence the people who gave him the brutal beating were right wing at all? They apparently said nothing to him, are unidentified, the only evidence he seems to have is that they went right for him?
 
Roar87 said:
This feels like another Jussie Smollett to me, I'm sure he was maybe pushed to the ground, but is there even any evidence the people who gave him the brutal beating were right wing at all? They apparently said nothing to him, are unidentified, the only evidence he seems to have is that they went right for him?
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Wouldn't surprise me if it was trouble makers looking for someone to hassle who he looked like an easy target for. As I've mentioned before I was out drinking once with a bunch of people mostly from work and one looks a bit like Austin Powers which resulted in him getting jumped (just because he looked a bit different/nerdy and no other reason) by some chavvy types (he'd gone to get the car to give some of us a lift home) - they weren't quite so eager when the odds changed from 5 to 1. They were lucky I managed to dissuade a couple of the other guys we were out with from getting involved when they turned up as they were former military, tanked up and spoiling for it.
 
Thecaferacer said:
Christ man, there has actually been screenshots of what he wrote posted here of him supporting egging and one saying that Richard Spenser should have been punched and that violence is needed to combat the far right. He was widely rounded upon and mocked by members of the left for this. It was widely reported and discussed at the time.
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You do realise we've already discussed both those points? Shall I do some bullets for you?
  • Egging. Discussed above. Most agree that whilst it is not a nice thing to do, it is absolutely not comparable to someone getting punched, kicked, beaten etc. Kids egg people and we're not locking them up for it.
  • Richard Spenser. The single FB post shows Jones pointing out that the WW2-era Nazis were not defeated by singing kumbaya. Make of that what you will, but it is absolutely not a call to arms, violence, threatening or anything of the sort. It was a stupid thing to say (first person to bring up the Nazis in an online argument wins! Ding ding!) but it is not advocating violence towards anyone. You're putting words in his mouth. And anyway, alt-right =/ Nazis. Amirite? :confused:
So. Unless you've got any more 'evidence' to support your theory that Jones is an advocate of violence then I suggest you stop trying to skew the story and perspective to fit your own dubious agenda. We're on page 8 now and there's been only those two fruitless bits of 'evidence' against him. Sigh.
 
Scam said:
You do realise we've already discussed both those points? Shall I do some bullets for you?
  • Egging. Discussed above. Most agree that whilst it is not a nice thing to do, it is absolutely not comparable to someone getting punched, kicked, beaten etc. Kids egg people and we're not locking them up for it.
  • Richard Spenser. The single FB post shows Jones pointing out that the WW2-era Nazis were not defeated by singing kumbaya. Make of that what you will, but it is absolutely not a call to arms, violence, threatening or anything of the sort. It was a stupid thing to say (first person to bring up the Nazis in an online argument wins! Ding ding!) but it is not advocating violence towards anyone. You're putting words in his mouth. And anyway, alt-right =/ Nazis. Amirite? :confused:
So. Unless you've got any more 'evidence' to support your theory that Jones is an advocate of violence then I suggest you stop trying to skew the story and perspective to fit your own dubious agenda. We're on page 8 now and there's been only those two fruitless bits of 'evidence' against him. Sigh.
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Did he or did he not say it was ok to egg political opponents and to use force against people who you consider to be Nazis? If you don't believe those posts are indicative of that then fine, but don't be shocked when others disagree.

We will go around in circles with this, but there is no attempt on my part to skew or misrepresent what he posted. The posts replying to him also contain those who agree with him saying that all fascists should be violently dealt with. They obviously believed Jones was agreeing with violence. I don't consider my opinion controversial
 
Thecaferacer said:
Did he or did he not say it was ok to egg political opponents and to use force against people who you consider to be Nazis? If you don't believe those posts are indicative of that then fine, but don't be shocked when others disagree.

We will go around in circles with this, but there is no attempt on my part to skew or misrepresent what he posted. The posts replying to him also contain those who agree with him saying that all fascists should be violently dealt with. They obviously believed Jones was agreeing with violence. I don't consider my opinion controversial
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Stretccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnng
 
Scam said:
Source? Link? It's not a great way to win an argument, but calling someone a Nazi is not on the same level as advocating a white Europe, or ethnic cleansing etc.
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I've seen/heard him use it in a couple of tweets, interviews, commentaries, so I'll hold my hands up to having exaggerated that claim.
 
Scam said:
You can keep repeating "facts" in a Trumpian attempt to make them become true, yet there's still no evidence that he has condoned or supported violence against anyone. Therefore your argument is rather baseless.
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Stop being so ignorant and/ or disengenious....


Why do you think he posted an image of a man being punched in the street as he gave an interview?

Both Spencer and Jones are self declared activists for socialism. 'Socialist' regimes have killed tens of millions in the last century.

If I followed Jones line of thinking I would consider it fine to punch him in the head for advocating for such a dangerous ideology....

But in a democratic system I don't agree with poltical violence being used by the populace against one another.

The 'anti facists' didnt stop the Nazi's rising to power and probably did a lot to help them by scarring the rest of the populace with the spectre of another murderous communist revolution occurring (this time in Germany).

Facisim in the UK never even got started to any significant degree and was and is a marginal influence. Again the actions of the 'anti facist' mob have very little to do with actually stopping the spread of fascism and often act as a recruiting sergeant for it whilst simultaneously ensuring that the level of violence used by the minority involved tends to escalate.
 
I'm shocked that he is 35. He acts like an annoying 25 year old that thinks he knows everything about the world. Still cannot get over he is 35.
 
Tefal said:
So when gay Asian journalist was hospitalised with brain damage and chemical burns from a concrete milkshake (hey jo brand got her wish I guess on that one that the BBC still defend) by antifa why was that ok?
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Andy NGO did not suffer brain damage, his legal team had to remove that claim from his statement because it was innacuate, he also never got chemical burns from concrete milkshake, that was complete nonsense spread by blaggers on twitter. Amazing the stuff people will believe just because they want to believe it.
 
Thecaferacer said:
Did he or did he not say it was ok to egg political opponents and to use force against people who you consider to be Nazis?
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Correction. He said it was ok to egg Nazis. That I won't deny. You tacking on the bit I underlined is putting words in his mouth. And jumping from egging to using force against people is a very big leap.

Caracus2k said:
Stop being so ignorant and/ or disengenious....
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People are trying to equal Jones to people like Tommy Robinson or that Spencer. Talking about his 'dangerous ideologies' lol. Really... When he talks about white Europe, removing Muslims from countries, ethnic cleansing et al I'll hold my hands up and admit he's dangerous. For now, as stated he's a champagne socialist media luvvy with a very punchable face. It does not make it ok though.

Jesus, being involved in this thread and clicking through to some of those Twitter links really do prove we're ****ed :rolleyes:
 
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