Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 10,001
- Location
- Billericay, UK
I don't mean to have a go but people get blinkered by the success stories you see online and on TV shows, you rarely hear about the downsides to being a landlord. I won't deny there's money to be made but it's not that rosey and timing plays a big part. My Dad for example bought a place in 1988 and owned it for about 18 years, I can't remember how much he sold it for but the increase in value over that 18 years wasn't all that, maybe about a 33% increase (bear in mind property values dropped a lot in the early 90's and took a while to recover, the next real boom period wasn't until the early 2000's).
The reality is stark for new landlords doesn't paint rosy picture I'm afraid. Initial rental income will be around 5% gross of the property value if your lucky so call it £12.5k a year which will cover the mortgage interest which will likely be around £850/£900 on a BTL mortgage (these days though that interest isn't tax deductible so now that's another £2k of tax you have to pay and just remember BTL mortgages have higher rates then normal residential purchases as your main home). Even after tax and bank interest your going to lose money on repairs and/or agent fees and if you bought a flat that will come with service fees and ground rent which are typically paid for by the landlord. Assuming a 20 year ownership period you will eventually start to come out ahead and make money from rent as rents steadily increase but the bills don't stop, during that 20 years your will be replacing the kitchen and bathroom at least once, rental void periods and general maintenance all eat into returns (all required if you want to attract the highest rental income). After 20 years the property could have doubled in value (or more). If you put that £50k into a index fund that returned you 8% after 20 years your coming out at the same return, whilst being a less stressful and doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of fees and time to manage (also if you want to invest smaller additional sums it far easier and convenient with tracker funds then it is with property).
lol
In all seriousness @Quartz I'd be interested to know how much you put down as a deposit, what year that was and what your property is worth now (and how much of the mortgage left if applicable). I can't honestly see how any landlord that invested >10-15 years ago could have lost out in comparison with other options. Even without getting a profit every month on top.
Bought in 2002, 25% deposit, mortgage fully paid before I let it out. Don't forget that there's been 72% inflation since then. I'm told that the way to make money on property these days is to own the property through a company so you can put the mortgage interest as a cost before tax.
Don't get me wrong: I would make a profit were I to sell it but it's not the megabucks people seem to think, and tax is paid on that profit, and I've lost perhaps £50k on my flat in Aberdeen.
Maybe not with recent inflation but it's the same with other investments
- Joined
- 14 Jun 2004
- Posts
- 17,504
- Location
- Newcastle U/T
The place we've recently moved to our mortgage is just shy of 900 a month
There was 2 houses up for rent on the same street... 2200 a month I mean wut
Joked on with the missus that we should rent the place out over the summer, cover the mortgage and pay for us to live abroad for a few month
There was 2 houses up for rent on the same street... 2200 a month I mean wut
Joked on with the missus that we should rent the place out over the summer, cover the mortgage and pay for us to live abroad for a few month
You mean like... food and water? Some of these comments are comical.
There are all sorts of reasons someone might let their house, I find it bizare the hatred it generates when compared along side other assets. People are apparently quite happy to pay near-rent level monthly payments for their new SUV without batting an eye, but a house? How dare you.
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I rent a housing association property, it's not great and it's not really suitable for my needs now given my disability. What I need is a 3 bedroom bungalow (not many of them in Liverpool) or a suitably large 3 bedroom house that could be converted for downstairs living. In a perfect world I'd either be able to buy my own property or rent privately but it's just not an option given my circumstances. Private rent is extremely high, but I don't begrudge the landlords in general.
If you've been fortunate enough to have property to let out and you're not some scummy slum lord then more power to you if you want to turn a profit. Its supply and demand at the end of the day and yours to make money off if you so choose.
I do think it's silly though that you cannot get a mortgage for say £500 a month because its unaffordable to you. Even though you can show you've been renting for years paying £1000+ a month in rent.
If you've been fortunate enough to have property to let out and you're not some scummy slum lord then more power to you if you want to turn a profit. Its supply and demand at the end of the day and yours to make money off if you so choose.
I do think it's silly though that you cannot get a mortgage for say £500 a month because its unaffordable to you. Even though you can show you've been renting for years paying £1000+ a month in rent.
If we all had a time machine we could have invested in lots of things, AI, Apple, Tesla etc.
Capital appreciation when you sell a property won't pay the bills and costs every year during those 25 years. Unless of course again you have a time machine.
Over the long term shares might have a better return.
Buying A House Vs Investing In The Stock Market
Debating buying a house vs. investing in the stock market? While both can be smart money moves and both come with risk, here’s why the latter is the better decision.
www.forbes.com
Maybe you should bother doing the maths.
The problem with housing as opposed to property. Is that many govts tried to outsource the costs of the loss making public/social housing to the private market. While not building enough new stock to service demand.
If I was starting over I be trying to opt out of the rat race. I wouldn't be chasing a property market I've been priced out of.
Give it to the local council or government. That comment certainly see me spit coffee all over the wall
My local and county council couldn't be trusted with with an empty bucket, let alone more money and property.
If it's let out why are you and the agent entering the property while the tenant is not there?
Also it is not your home as you do not live there, it's a rental property.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,866
not sure the details but I believe a landlord or manager has the right to inspect their property and make sure it is being properly maintained or that no smoking / pets or what ever rules are being adhered to.
that said it's not just a random pop up and let yourself in. notice has to be given (it took us months to get the keys after our tenants had absconded and that was 4 or 5 (it's a long time ago) months after they stopped paying rent .
not saying there would not have been a quicker way for us to do it. other landlords don't seem to have such issues if you believe what you see in the press / telly but it's how long it took us.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,866
just had a random thought. This question is for those who are against ANY private renting. what do you do for a holiday? or do you just stay in a tent ? because of you take that view to its logical conclusion.... you could feasibly fit a lot of people's homes into a hotel or a holiday park . and you must never ever rent out a cottage... or should all holiday homes be council ran as well (if they were I would defo not be holidaying in the UK unless they hugely upped their game .
I say this fully aware that 2nd holiday homes for rentals are a huge issue if you live local to the seaside, but if you go on holiday there yourself surely you are contributing to the issue.
having my 1stnexperience of an air B&B next month. I guess they are a no no too?
I say this fully aware that 2nd holiday homes for rentals are a huge issue if you live local to the seaside, but if you go on holiday there yourself surely you are contributing to the issue.
having my 1stnexperience of an air B&B next month. I guess they are a no no too?
Because I had arranged it. Booked train tickets, accommodation, etc. I live hundreds of miles away, remember?
Correct.
I must be honest, watching all these people **** then bed over their profit taking a hit really warms my cockles. Let them burn, all of them. About time people recognised housing as a fundamental human need rather than an opportunity to profit.
Did the tenant know the day you were coming? Was it agreed?
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,866
you are not living in the real world. properties need to be rented out. no one forced the government to get rid of all their stock of council houses. the problem isn't with private landlords it is with the lack of state let properties.
and the answer shouldn't be to force take the properties off them after they had been voluntarily sold
private landlords should intheory be able to live along side state ones. and I didn't see landlords initially complaining... they /we are just responding to peiple in this thread spouting outlier profits as if they are the norm and putting them straight .
and just because you may not agree with private landlords does not mean that tenants should be asshats... or that LLs deserve to have their time wasted. I dislike tenants..... just like I absolutely dislike scummy landlords despite rending out a property myself.
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I've no issue with people renting out, or even people who inherit a home or anything like that, and renting it out. Where I have a problem is people who use words like "portfolio" or investors who buy or build entire blocks of shoebox sized flats to rent out. People like that deserve to have their properties burned to the ground, but sadly the small landlords will likely go with them.
I see them everywhere here in London, they're going up like lego buildings. We've looked at a few and they're absolute insults towards renters, I can imagine an accountant and an architect looking at a reasonable sized lounge and goingv"if you put a partition here you can create an extra room and increase the price by 20%". Those people don't belong in our society.
You've heard of hotels?
They're not the same as a property that someone would ordinarily live in, so not really a logical conclusion.
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How are you supposed to have a private rental sector without the opportunity to profit? It would be a **** system if all we had was local authority-owned housing and waiting lists... good luck being an immigrant or just anyone trying to move to a new city for work if we didn't have a private rental sector backed by people seeking to make a profit. That doesn't mean they're all entitled to profit, they're putting money at risk and they can lose but the private sector and the opportunity is there and that's generally a good thing as people need it.
Nah, the problematic landlords are generally small landlords; that's where experiences vary for renters a lot... you could have (as I did) a really great landlord who doesn't put up the rent and leaves you alone (I had a doctor who had bought a house but hadn't needed to sell his first flat and kept it as a rental property) but you can easily have the total opposite to that.
The people renting to say Romanian gangs are small landlords, the people running short-term lets at silly prices and ripping off immigrants are small landlords, the people who don't get repairs done and break all the rules are typically small landlords. Those are the people on the landlord forums who occasionally go viral on social media with their completely unhinged takes.
A random fund/real estate investment trust etc.. that is collectively owned by a bunch of investors/pension funds is way more likely to take a generic approach, rent going up by inflation, standard inspection, gas boiler checked annually... it's a box-ticking exercise for them, they'll just have property managers who actually know the rules/regulations and do it full-time, they're not emotionally invested in the property, it's just a business providing a service.
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