The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime)
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Caporegime
Multiple people have in this very thread...
You’re right, that’ll teach me for skimming, but I kind of covered that with my statement ‘and if they have’. So, either way, my point about people getting weird about it because of his ethnicity are still idiots…
I think it's more inserting black hobbits into middle earth rather than a black actor being cast (well apart from Lenny Henry being a terrible actor)
In the prologue of the first book they mention another race of hobbits, the harfoots, who are of browner skin. Regardless of that, it seems wild to me in a franchise with orcs, elves, dwarves and magic walking trees that having a black group of hobbits could be unthinkable.
It's fantasy. Its not real so it doesn't matter what colour they are as long as they've acted the role correctly why does it bother some people? Just a really weird hill to die on.
It may not be a a big deal to some or others may see it as token 'woke' behaviour but to people like me, it's actually pretty cool. Yes it's fantasy and as I just said it literally doesn't matter on the colour of the actors but sometimes a bit of representation is nice. My uncle got me into LoTR when I was younger and bought me a book which contained all 3 books which I read when I was at school and he brought me to all the films when they released in the cinema. We are fans of the franchise and looking forward to this releasing and while having an all white cast never detracted from the experience for us, I don't think having a few black cast members should detract from the experience for others. Sometimes when you don't see yourself in media which you enjoy it's quite refreshing to see someone who looks like you.
It's a fantasy franchise with dwarves, elves, hobbits, orcs, giant eagles, Ents, dragons, goblins and wizards with a whole bunch of other beasts I've missed out. If you can watch and be engrossed in all of that with no issue being immersed but the sight of a black hobbit is immersion breaking?! That's an issue with the viewer and not the the show going 'woke'
Soldato
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^Great post.
Why does representation matter so much? You mention that you read the books when you were younger, did the lack ethnicity bother you? How about when the movies were cast?
The issue with changing elements of the world that's already been built is that the changes seem forced in, there's no need for them. Every single time an established IP starts to have things changed in the name of diversity or representation you can guarantee the writers responsible are talentless hacks that have zero affinity or love for said ip, every single time.. You only have to look at the car crash that was WoT, changes made at the altar of diversity and it was a **** show, made by people that had zero love or respect for the world built by Jordan. I've already made my peace in accepting I'll never see a WoT series made that does justice to the books, I'd rather not have to go down that route with LotR aswell.
My main issue was that the biggest named actor attached to a 500 million dollar project was Lenny ******* Henry.
If this is a well written, well acted production that does justice to the world built by Tolkien I'll never post here again, I can guarantee that will never come to pass though.
My posts addressed that it didn't detract from the movies that it was an all white cast. Books are 50% on page and 50% imagination so it doesn't matter what's written as the rest is in my head.
Why does representation matter to me? I guess until you notice that people who resemble you aren't on the screen often, it plays a bit. It's not going to stop my world turning but you notice it. Like wise when you see someone like yourself doing something some people are going to be inspired by that and believe it's a world they can also be in. Are people from ethnic backgrounds just suppose to assume they couldn't themselves be in a fantasy setting cause people **** the bed when they dare try and put someone or colour into a a fantasy series?
I'm not agreeing with rewriting things like casting a black James Bond. I think that is ridiculous, personally. But I don't see what the issue is with having a black hobbit. It just seems wild to me people are upset that they're doing this and will judge the series based upon this. We haven't even seen how he will be in it yet and it seems people are already writing it off. He wouldn't have been my first choice either but we haven't seen who else they wanted to cast for the role.
Rather than wanting to know why representation matters so much to me I'd like to know why it matters so little to you or rather why does it matter so much to you that they're trying to increase representation. Why is it such a bad thing?
Look at the whole recent thing with Pixar what they've done with Moana and Encanto. There are now little brown and black children who can watch a cartoon and see themselves in the place in ways they couldn't do with Frozen and Elsa. That is why representation is important.
For what it is worth. I don't want it shoehorned into every single show. I don't understand these period dramas where they will have a black aristocrat just for the sake of diversity. If for some reason they released Downton Abbey again with a black cast who were on level pegging with the rest of the ensemble. I'd find that ridiculous and be on the same page as you. Mostly as that has some semblance of reality based writing. Same as James Bond. He is very much a white character and casting him as anything else would be bizarre and just feel wrong. No matter how good of an actor they'd have in place.
But for a Fantasy based show where reality is thrown out the window. I really don't understand why people can have a genuine annoyance with it.
the show may be great. It may be *****. But that isn't going to be down to the fact they've increased diversity. That'll be down to the writing and production.
Soldato
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This.
The hacks can't write for toffee, and the certainly can't write their own IP's, so all that is left to them is ruin everyone else's IP's with their terrible writing and political agendas. You'll notice there's never any outcry from Hollywood or the woke Twatterati for more diversity of casting for Bollywood and for eastern TV and movies...because they know Bollywood and eastern countries and cultures would quite rightly tell them to **** off and leave their IP's and culture alone, and because of course they're only interested in certain types and inclusivity and diversity.
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Soldato
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I'm not agreeing with rewriting things like casting a black James Bond. I think that is ridiculous, personally. But I don't see what the issue is with having a black hobbit. It just seems wild to me people are upset that they're doing this and will judge the series based upon this. We haven't even seen how he will be in it yet and it seems people are already writing it off. He wouldn't have been my first choice either but we haven't seen who else they wanted to cast for the role.
Why? why is it a white role?
They're not set in the 1960's when you could make a case for a British secret agent only possibly being white, but now?
Why? why is it a white role?
They're not set in the 1960's when you could make a case for a British secret agent only possibly being white, but now?
Caporegime
Need more 6foot 6 fat hobbits like me.
Soldato
How about a white guy playing Shaft?
If anything it makes the whole diversity and inclusion thing a bit daft if originally white characters have their skin colour, or gender changed. There are fantastic non white characters and male/female roles. They don't need to be changed. New material needs to be written with the character's base features baked in from the start.
Soldato
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I really think Shaft's ehtnicity is intrinsic to the carachter.
I general I agree with your point, but the trouble is Hollywood/Wokerati are not interested in diversity, they are interesting in taking down and erasing straight white males in partiuclar and replacing them wherever they can, whether they fit into the film/Tv show/role - with mary sue's, other enthicities, and LGTBQetc - so it is not about representation or diversity at all. It is not about having "more" representation or equality it's about having less straight (male or female) rep, and as little white male rep as possible.
Secondly, the problem is none of these people trying to write film and TV shows with their political agenda's have any talent whatsoever, so they wreck established IP's instead. They can't write new material telling the stories they want told, because they don't have the talent, no-one wants to watch, and they almost always flop.
I agree there's always been plenty of Ellen Ripley's and Virgil Tibbs - enough of them over the last 70 years? no probably not - but this isn't about redressing the balance, it is not about equality, it is about them dominating. They have had a sniff of power and they are drunk on it. So it is a war, for sure.
I'm not sure how long the money men in Film/TV/Hollywood/Comics are going to allow these talentless hacks to keep making trash content that loses money hand over fist, probably not until they decide being dictated to by Twitter is too expensive.
Soldato
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Soldato
And James Bonds' ethinicity isn't intrinsic to his character?
Superb!However, I don't really disagree with the rest of your post. The apparent weaponisation of gender and eithnicity swapping at the expense of, typically, white males, just garners nothing more than a hard
from me.
Soldato
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And James Bonds' ethinicity isn't intrinsic to his character?
However, I don't really disagree with the rest of your post. The apparent weaponisation of gender and eithnicity swapping at the expense of, typically, white males, just garners nothing more than a hard
No I don't think there's any reason why Bond can't be suave, a bad-ass, a hit with the ladies and everything else we associate with Bond and be black. But I'll agree to diagree on this.
Yeah, weaponisation is a very good way of putting it. It's not just people who can see this going on who are tired of it either, people are turning off in droves. People aren't stupid they don't want lectures and to be preached at in their down time. All you can do is vote with your wallet.
Soldato
And here's me thinking the world went to **** when Jason Bourne was recast-with another white man, let alone a different sex/gender/colour.
Soldato
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And those stories aren't fantasy? Can you imagine the furore if they inserted white characters into those for the sake of "diversity"?
Welll its based on germanic mythology he drew elements from all of them and thats a northern european tradition so...