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not trying to hit panic alarms in September, but my super excitement of the new players and Mourinho has evaporated already.

Problem is, so many of the fans could see our team was still crap in areas, why couldn't the manager. Desperate need for a RB, DMC, and either a top AMC or AMR. Ideally one or two leaders who have a pair would be good too!

If you offered me 4th place now, id snap your arm off.
 
Newbfail said:
not trying to hit panic alarms in September, but my super excitement of the new players and Mourinho has evaporated already.

Problem is, so many of the fans could see our team was still crap in areas, why couldn't the manager. Desperate need for a RB, DMC, and either a top AMC or AMR. Ideally one or two leaders who have a pair would be good too!

If you offered me 4th place now, id snap your arm off.
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Fail, we have Essay Lindgard, valencia and wesley Morgan schneiderlin.

Plus for leadership we have bastianos schweinsteiger.

The squads not terribad. But we need to play oir best players in each position and stick to our strengths.
 
10 days ago most people had us down to beat City as they were without Aguero, and despite a poor start, in the second half we gave them a game.

Since then it's been very poor, admittedly, and there are worrying signs, but no conclusions should be jumped to yet. It's far too early.
 
Robbo said:
10 days ago most people had us down to beat City as they were without Aguero, and despite a poor start, in the second half we gave them a game.

Since then it's been very poor, admittedly, and there are worrying signs, but no conclusions should be jumped to yet. It's far too early.
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You struggled against Hull, HULL ffs, and Utd fans were congratulating themselves and decided they could beat City.

City played the first half at a level we haven't seen out of Utd in the past 4-5 years. City made a huge error and gave Utd a goal out of nothing. That half could have been 8-2 if everyone took their best chances. City did that thing, when you dominate too easily then the team often takes their foot off the gas and then struggles to get back into top gear. Utd I wouldn't say had a poor start, they were, for 35-40 minutes, absolutely and completely abysmal but it was as much or more City's insane pace, movement and passing that made Utd play badly, Utd themselves I don't think played or tried anything different. They are just slow and uncreative. Against lesser teams it didn't get shown up but against a top team they got embarrassed.

Watford also played with more pace, more movement and again made Utd look embarrassing. City dropped towards Utd's level in the second half of that game, Utd absolutely did not raise their game towards City, nothing close to it.

Also those who thought Aguero being out was going to be massive haven't watch Iheanacho play, the guy is a phenomenal player for 19yrs old, as yet when they've subbed or had Aguero out for any reason, Iheanacho hasn't looked like a downgrade at all.
 
Looking at the predictions in our prediction league, the vast majority backed Utd. As it happens not a single person predicted City to win.
 
drunkenmaster said:
You struggled against Hull, HULL ffs, and Utd fans were congratulating themselves and decided they could beat City.

City played the first half at a level we haven't seen out of Utd in the past 4-5 years. City made a huge error and gave Utd a goal out of nothing. That half could have been 8-2 if everyone took their best chances. City did that thing, when you dominate too easily then the team often takes their foot off the gas and then struggles to get back into top gear. Utd I wouldn't say had a poor start, they were, for 35-40 minutes, absolutely and completely abysmal but it was as much or more City's insane pace, movement and passing that made Utd play badly, Utd themselves I don't think played or tried anything different. They are just slow and uncreative. Against lesser teams it didn't get shown up but against a top team they got embarrassed.

Watford also played with more pace, more movement and again made Utd look embarrassing. City dropped towards Utd's level in the second half of that game, Utd absolutely did not raise their game towards City, nothing close to it.

Also those who thought Aguero being out was going to be massive haven't watch Iheanacho play, the guy is a phenomenal player for 19yrs old, as yet when they've subbed or had Aguero out for any reason, Iheanacho hasn't looked like a downgrade at all.
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My point is that the media, and people in general, saw our performances prior to the City game as impressive - whether you believe they were or not.

I always had concerns as we hadn't played a good side and as it happens, we got taken apart when we did.

The new players will need time to bed in, and the damage from the LvG/Moyes era will take time to fix. Having said that, it isn't clear to me what Mourinho is trying to do, but it's more than reasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
 
Fwiw, I went for a draw because I felt (and said as much previously) that City were going to take time to adapt to Pep's way of defending rather than thinking Utd are/were on a par with City. It's ominous for the rest of the league just how quickly City have settled because with the players they've still got to come into the side they're only going to get stronger.

On Mourinho/Utd - I might be wrong but I can't remember Mourinho being so critical of his players in previous years like he was at Chelsea last season and is starting to do in these last few defeats. He talks about some players lacking confidence but hanging them out to dry like he did Shaw at the weekend isn't going to help.
 
Robbo said:
..and the damage from the LvG/Moyes era will take time to fix.....
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I know Mourinho mentioned something along the lines of this a few weeks back but what does this mean? I understand why Mourinho's saying it as he's just getting his excuses in early and covering his arse. Mourinho's coaching the players, picking the team and choosing the tactics. The only remains of the LvG and Moyes spells are the players they signed and when you've spent as much as Utd have this summer, there's no excuses for Mourinho not to have addressed any areas of the squad he wasn't happy with.

When Mourinho was first linked/appointed there was a lot of talk about him changing etc etc and I said that we heard the same rubbish when he returned to Chelsea too only for 6 months later he reverted back to the Mourinho we all know and hate, and I see this going the same way.

He's already making excuses, he's already talked about how Utd didn't play attacking football under Taggart, they played winnning football, he's hanging certain players out to dry that maybe aren't your typical Mourinho players. Imo this is all buidling to justifying him going back to what he knows best.

I made some tongue in cheek comments about Martial over the summer but they were half serious too. I'm not saying it's certain to happen but I wouldn't be shocked if players like Shaw and Martial weren't around, or at least not rated as highly by Mourinho as most Utd supporters, in a years time.

Mourinho's full backs are defenders first and foremost, is Shaw a great defender? I'm not sure. And Mourinho expects his wingers/wide forwards to work their nuts off and not get caught like Martial did for Watford's goal on Sunday.
 
i expect Martial to be off in the summer, just doesn't seem to be a Man U player anymore.

I'm getting a little peeved with the guys cant be arsed body language of late.
 
What I mean by that is the players have been coached for 2 seasons by LvG with very peculiar methods and there may be lingering effects of that. It is then of course Mourinho's job to fix that and we know it shouldn't necessarily take months.

If he goes back to what he knows best then so be it, at this point we have to prioritise winning over attractive football. You can have both and I think that's something we can build towards, Chelsea when they most recently won the title were more than decent and there's no reason we can't have the same thing. Jose will be better off changing himself and his methods (if he can) from a position of strength.

I think Shaw is a good defender, I wouldn't say he's all about attacking, if anything his attacking isn't that great, and he's only 21.

Same applies to Martial, he's still very young and there's no reason he can't be made to track back. The problem is, the current squad is what it is, so he's got no choice but to adapt and use it, none of the attacking wide players will do a great job tracking back. As you said, this should have been fairly clear to him and he hasn't signed any other players.

At this point Rooney and Fellaini in midfield are two big problems, then there's the issue of the team playing with little to no intensity most of the time. Are the players lazy? Poorly coached? It's strange.
 
Robbo said:
What I mean by that is the players have been coached for 2 seasons by LvG with very peculiar methods and there may be lingering effects of that. It is then of course Mourinho's job to fix that and we know it shouldn't necessarily take months.....
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I really don't buy that at all. It's not as if these players have only known one type of playing prior to Mourinho turning up and he's having to teach them something brand new. Look at when Klopp took over from Rodgers - he didn't have a full summer to work with his squad, he barely had a few days to work with the players as they were away with their international teams when he took over, yet in his first game in charge you saw a clear change towards how he wanted us to play. Of course the finer details take time and the more time a manager has the better he can drill his players but imo, Mourinho came out with that line for 1 reason - to cover his arse.

As for being able to play attacking football and winning football. That is of course every manager's dream but Mourinho tried and trusted winning formula isn't very attacking, relatively speaking of course.
 
Well, any kind of formula is better than what's being served up at the moment. :p

It will be very interesting to see where we go from here.
 
Robbo said:
I think Shaw is a good defender, I wouldn't say he's all about attacking, if anything his attacking isn't that great, and he's only 21.
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For his age I think he is a fantastic defender (and the fact he has been out a whole season, and still isnt back to his best let alone what he should be able to become. His overall fitness isnt perfect and his sharpness still needs to come back but thats fair enough given what he's coming back from.

Robbo said:
Same applies to Martial, he's still very young and there's no reason he can't be made to track back. The problem is, the current squad is what it is, so he's got no choice but to adapt and use it, none of the attacking wide players will do a great job tracking back. As you said, this should have been fairly clear to him and he hasn't signed any other players.
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A bit of 2nd season syndrome with Martial perhaps? Given how well he did last season, I wouldnt be surprised if the Euros knocked him back a bit confidence wise and it would be understandable given his age if this is the case. Sounds like he might be out for a bit with Sunday's injury - which might actually do him some good in a strange kind of way.

Robbo said:
At this point Rooney and Fellaini being on the field at all are two big problems, then there's the issue of the team playing with little to no intensity most of the time. Are the players lazy? Poorly coached? It's strange.
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Did a little editing for you :D

Even if JM wants to stick with 4-2-3 -1 (which doesnt really suit Utds current squad) pushing Pogba forward instead of Rooney and having any two of Carrick, Schneiderlin or Herrera behind him would really sort out the major issues imo, the intensity would be better , players more in their natural positions and therefore getting the best out of them. If Mkhi and Martial are out for a bit we still have options out wide with Lingard, Rashford, Mata for instance. There is also "left-field" option of trying Fosu-Mensah as one of the two CM's / DM's , green by all accounts but as this area of the pitch isnt working anyway.......
 
Rumours start kicking around about Rooney being dropped for this weekend's game then suddenly this
Gary Neville on Twitter: Leaks already after one bad week! Embarrassing!!

The Telegraph: MUFC manager Jose Mourinho's criticism of players "nastier and more personal than Sir Alex Ferguson's ever was"
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Sounds like Rooneys been at it again.
 
Befire the derby it was virtually every utd fan at my work thinking Utd would cruise the Derby. Then aguero took a suspension and it was a certainty.

But these were the same people telling me pogba was awesome and that he could tackle and play a bit.
 
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