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Glad to hear we are giving Shaw a new deal , hopefully he can push on now and nail down a starting place ready for next season (can see majority of our full backs being sold in the summer - possibly keeping Young as back up/2nd choice)
 
On another note, after watching that dismal display at the weekend again, my question is - Does Jose actually know his best 11/formation.

Ignore the opponents for a minute and everyone is fit......who does he play as his best 11.

I don't honestly think he knows.......

Anyone else care to put forward their best 11 assuming everyone is fit and formation??
 
I think the days of 'best 11s' are over. The best team for playing Newcastle or West Brom will be completely different to playing City or Liverpool. That said, there doesn't appear to be any real foundation or structure to the Utd side and it's difficult to see what Mourinho is building towards. At the moment it's almost as if he's just trying to shoehorn certain players into the side rather than picking a balanced 11.
 
Even that line up is very weak on the right - even with Sanchez as the attacker (and for the best part of 4 seasons Valencia is non existant as an attacking full back....who cant cross for toffee), at least Sanchez on the right means Martial can carry on on the left....but its not a great solution . supposedly Matic has been injured since before Christmas, but imo he has been pretty weak even before that ...although he was A+ for Aug & Sep at least but gradually went down hill since then

The problem is Herrera's form is just as bad (although hasn't dropped as far as Matic or Pogba's) and I cant think of anyone else that is up to the job yet - still not sure where McTominey's best position is, but he needs a lot more time before he is even considered in any proper 1st XI against a top ten side.

Lukaku is starting to work hard in other areas of the pitch, but not consistently and his height is an added advantage.....but maybe we need to try Sanchez at No 9 with Pogba behind him, Martial on one side and Rashford on the other (or Lingard, who is slightly less invisible on the right than on the left, but comes into his own at No 10 most of the time). Obviously then need another midfielder.......how about Blind, meant to be available soon ....but there really isn't a good solution.....has JM actually ever used him as a CM /DM , capable of it but cant think of him playing there often at all under the current boss.


Central midfield needs major investment in the summer with the likelihood of Fellaini going (at last) and Carrick retiring.
 
It really can't hurt to experiment with Herrera alongside Matic, it's becoming clear to me that Pogba hasn't got the defensive discipline to play CM. Imo the best game Pogba has had all season was away to Everton, where he played a more advanced and free role. It's no surprise that Herrera partnered Matic in that game.

Spurs play a defensive two in midfield with Dembele and Dier and it works very well for them. The two defensive midfielders and the CBs can sit back and protect against counter-attacks, while the other six outfield players attack without having to worry too much about defensive duties. I'd like to think that even if Mourinho isn't willing to give Herrera a chance he's at least identified that we need another decent DM/CM to partner Matic so that Pogba isn't such a liability from a defensive point of view.
 
MADEinSTOKE said:
https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5a832d8b8dd5dd25d4d2c6f9
Would like to see United line up like this
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Agree with this...

FrankJH said:
Even that line up is very weak on the right - even with Sanchez as the attacker (and for the best part of 4 seasons Valencia is non existant as an attacking full back....who cant cross for toffee), at least Sanchez on the right means Martial can carry on on the left....but its not a great solution . supposedly Matic has been injured since before Christmas, but imo he has been pretty weak even before that ...although he was A+ for Aug & Sep at least but gradually went down hill since then

The problem is Herrera's form is just as bad (although hasn't dropped as far as Matic or Pogba's) and I cant think of anyone else that is up to the job yet - still not sure where McTominey's best position is, but he needs a lot more time before he is even considered in any proper 1st XI against a top ten side.

Lukaku is starting to work hard in other areas of the pitch, but not consistently and his height is an added advantage.....but maybe we need to try Sanchez at No 9 with Pogba behind him, Martial on one side and Rashford on the other (or Lingard, who is slightly less invisible on the right than on the left, but comes into his own at No 10 most of the time). Obviously then need another midfielder.......how about Blind, meant to be available soon ....but there really isn't a good solution.....has JM actually ever used him as a CM /DM , capable of it but cant think of him playing there often at all under the current boss.


Central midfield needs major investment in the summer with the likelihood of Fellaini going (at last) and Carrick retiring.
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Herrera was player of the season last year wasn't he? He just needs game time.

Whilst not ideal it's the best we have at the moment surely?
 
sigma said:
Herrera was player of the season last year wasn't he? He just needs game time.

Whilst not ideal it's the best we have at the moment surely?
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I don't dispute that Herrera was fantastic last year, but to be in such a significant role, I think with Herrera's form (because even at his best he doesn't have a touch on Pogba) you are risking far more swapping and changing Matic's partner all the time.
Its not even as though Matic has been rock solid recently , so it could just aggravate an already bad situation. If Herrera was in top form I would go along with you totally but clearly he isn't even close
 
FrankJH said:
I don't dispute that Herrera was fantastic last year, but to be in such a significant role, I think with Herrera's form (because even at his best he doesn't have a touch on Pogba) you are risking far more swapping and changing Matic's partner all the time.
Its not even as though Matic has been rock solid recently , so it could just aggravate an already bad situation. If Herrera was in top form I would go along with you totally but clearly he isn't even close
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It's a midfield trio dominated by players with no pace.

Herrera isn't good enough. Matic is oldddd which is why Chelsea sold him and pogba is just petulant, no discipline.

Pogba also looks like he never gets out of jogging around mode since his injury early in the year. Before that he flogged himself perhaps too much every game. No he literally looks like he is treading wayer.

Wonder if there's any stats in his average distance run/speed for his first 3 games of the season vs his first 3 back after injury And his last 3 games playrd...
 
See lots of posts slating the players we have ...could people who **** the player off pls post a realistic player they would like to see in the position being discussed
Personally I think the players we have should be good enough to be closer to city and if we’d have signed Pep we would have been lvl with city or even top of the league
 
Stefan de Vrij - Centre half - clear upgrade on Smalling and Jones and Rojo, and should suit the EPL. Will be free transfer in the summer (with lots of signing bonuses of course and agent fees etc etc) but will be tough competition from other clubs.

Seri +Jorginho to replace Carrick and Fellaini (from Nice and Napoli ) - Jorginho will be difficult but not impossible but is more ready to go, Seri will possibly need time to adjust and grow into the EPL, ignoring the Vidal / Kroos gossip but the two I mentioned are gettable imo although again both might have lots of EPL admirers.

Right full back - Fabinho - I know he is now more central midfield for Monaco but he did start there as a full back and can cross pretty well (any crossing ability will be better than Valencia) - but its also possible Fosu Mensah might come back, but not sure where he will fit in (but as he is an academy graduate, wouldn't count for squad anyway I believe) - definitely gettable as he has already spoken about out growing Monaco recently. Even IF F-M comes back we need someone to take pressure off Valencia and it would be too much to ask F-M to do that straight away.

Not suggesting at all that Utd will even get 50% of the above, but any of those would step straight into the 1st XI (if such thing exists any more) and are definitely gettable and as much as anyone can tell, should definitely be top quality additions.

Right wing/ forward - admittedly I have no idea - but one person I don't want is Bale and only because for what he would cost in transfer , agent fees and wages would be way too high a risk with his injury record over the last 2-3 seasons.

MADEinSTOKE said:
Personally I think the players we have should be good enough to be closer to city and if we’d have signed Pep we would have been lvl with city or even top of the league
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The main problem is that if / when Pogba or Bailly get injured we have only got "reasonable" quality to step up, rather than world class players, which doesn't help - the quality of the squad as a whole is mediocre and has been for 6-7 years , admittedly not helped by short term deals for Ibra taking up so much £££ and the likes of Lindelof not really getting comfy so far. So when 2 out of 7 deals by JM aren't currently working (Sanchez is too new to properly appraise right now, still obviously getting used to players around him) that's a big "loss".

The attitude at Huddersfield (when Pogba was injured) was awful , but Pogba might have been able to make the difference, and he probably would have directly vs City (I honestly don't think they would have won that game if he wasn't banned, slightly harshly in the Arsenal game) - maybe not in beating City , but even a draw - with Utd winning vs Huddersfield as above- would make a 6 point difference to today's table , which would make it look a lot better than it does now given how much longer City's core players have been together compared to Utd's.
 
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i don't get it with all the anti Mourinho stuff that is constantly out there. The facts are that this team was on a downward trend for SAF's last 2 seasons and has only stabilised despite heavy investment. All the drama about Pogba is nonsense. He was terrible for a couple of matches, strolling around, doing very little and not applying himself the way he can. His level dropped massively so the manager drops him. For seasons we have Rooney stinking the place out week after week and no manager having the bottle to deal with it - most of us were slagging Moyes or LvG for that. Mourinho at least had the bottle to move him on. The standards expected at ManU have to be the highest so if a player isn't making then their place must be under threat no matter what the transfer fee of wages.

Don't get me wrong - some of our play is stodgy but the facts are
2 trophies in year 1
2nd in the league for some time in year 2
Still in two cups

For sure he hasn't found a formula to constantly scintillate but lets not knock Mourinho for trying to manage. We saw with Fergie that no-one was bigger than the club - he dealt with things in his way and not always correctly.
Remember Beckham?
Stam?
Keano?

Mou might be testing Pogba ( A player with potential but not much achievement) Has he got what it takes to be a Messi or a Ronaldo? Let's see what happens - if the lad is wise he will knuckle down and get back to playing as he can wherever the coach wants him to play. If he doesn't want to then he can go elsewhere.
 
It was good to win the Europa League last season, but failure wasn't really an option due to the disastrous league position at the time.

While it would be over the top to say things are going very badly, put the league position aside for one moment. The football is complete garbage with no style or direction. It is absolutely painful to watch our games at the moment and football is ultimately about entertainment.

Mourinho in the past has been able to produce teams that are rigid but capable of playing well in general. In big European games I expect a Mourinho team to be awkward and boring, but it would do the job. However, I don't expect it every week, being regularly outplayed by lesser teams and winning only due to moments of individual brilliance or because the opposing team is knackered.

I do believe half of the squad is arguably not good enough at the top level, but why then have those players not been replaced? Why have we only spent huge sums on players, when a few £20-40m players would have a much better impact on the squad. Mourinho has to shoulder the blame for this.

Every week I am becoming more disillusioned, and there are no signs of it getting better. We're in Moyes territory now in terms of performances on the pitch. There has to be massive improvement between now and May.
 
I agree with most of what you've said Robbo, but not regarding the transfers. I think part of what has got us in such a mess is LvG spending £20-40m on lesser players. In my opinion United should only be making either big money moves for established, proven quality or spending smaller amounts on young guys that aren't the finished article but have great potential. LvG brought in Blind, Darmian, Depay, Di Maria, Herrera, Martial, Rojo, Romero, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Shaw and Valdes. Of those, I'd say the only decent signings were Martial, Shaw, Romero, and maybe Rojo and Herrera.

I don't disagree with you about the performances though. I wish we'd have more of a go at teams, and as you say it's unacceptable to be outplayed on a fairly regular basis by lesser teams.
 
I agree in theory, but the big signings are not pulling their weight. Pogba, Lukaku and now Sanchez are not winning games really, and the less said about Lindelof, the better. :o
 
I'm still holding out hope that Mourinho will go to PSG in the summer.

I really dislike him the more I have to see his childish interviews and his miserable demeanor. The football is terrible, yeah we're 2nd and yeah we've won trophies, but the football is no more exciting to watch than Moyes and Mourinho

No idea who we'd get in, but it wouldn't be worse than Mourinho
 
Calpol said:
i don't get it with all the anti Mourinho stuff that is constantly out there. The facts are that this team was on a downward trend for SAF's last 2 seasons and has only stabilised despite heavy investment. All the drama about Pogba is nonsense. He was terrible for a couple of matches, strolling around, doing very little and not applying himself the way he can. His level dropped massively so the manager drops him. For seasons we have Rooney stinking the place out week after week and no manager having the bottle to deal with it - most of us were slagging Moyes or LvG for that. Mourinho at least had the bottle to move him on. The standards expected at ManU have to be the highest so if a player isn't making then their place must be under threat no matter what the transfer fee of wages.

Don't get me wrong - some of our play is stodgy but the facts are
2 trophies in year 1
2nd in the league for some time in year 2
Still in two cups

For sure he hasn't found a formula to constantly scintillate but lets not knock Mourinho for trying to manage. We saw with Fergie that no-one was bigger than the club - he dealt with things in his way and not always correctly.
Remember Beckham?
Stam?
Keano?

Mou might be testing Pogba ( A player with potential but not much achievement) Has he got what it takes to be a Messi or a Ronaldo? Let's see what happens - if the lad is wise he will knuckle down and get back to playing as he can wherever the coach wants him to play. If he doesn't want to then he can go elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I just don't get why people want Mourinho out, yes things might not be perfect but its hard to disagree with anything Calpol mentioned above. We were horrible under Moyes and LvG and there's still a good few players in the squad that need replacing.

Seriously though, all those wanting Mourinho out, who do you want to replace him? Who's a realistic option that's better than him? And please don't mention Pochettino, he'll be off to Spain if he decides to leave Spurs.
Simeone? If you hate Mourinhos style of football surely you'll hate Simeones
 
Moses said:
Darmian was supposed to be a fairly big money established player - decent money for a full back, Italian international, etc. Depay was meant to be a young hot prospect. Di Maria was a big money established player. Herrera was a fairly big money established player. Martial was meant to be a young hot prospect. Shaw was meant to be a young hot prospect. Schneiderlin was a fairly big money established player.

You list loads of signings and lament them being poor, but at the time loads were either big money established players or big money youth. The failure of eg. Darmian isn’t because they didn’t spend good money on an established player... it’s because he’s been coached badly and used badly.
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Darmian was £16.5 million, even in 2015/16 that was certainly not a significant amount to spend on a full back, Luke Shaw cost double that the season before. He'd had one good World Cup and a few decent seasons at club level for Torino, it was definitely a bit of a punt by LvG. Then with Depay and Schneiderlin they've hardly jumped up in quality since leaving United, so I'm not convinced they were ever good signings in the first place, plus in Depay's case it's always a bit of a gamble getting players from the Eredivisie, they can be very hit and miss.

Also, how many of the signings I listed would Mourinho have made were he manager at the time? He might have signed Martial and Shaw, both of whom I still rate highly and hope they come good, possibly he would have signed Herrera, Rojo and Di Maria, but that's less certain.
 
Robbo said:
I agree in theory, but the big signings are not pulling their weight. Pogba, Lukaku and now Sanchez are not winning games really, and the less said about Lindelof, the better. :o
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The problem is that I don't think Mourinho is making bad signings, I think he's bought the right players to fit the right roles, I trust him a lot more in the transfer market than I did Moyes and LvG, I just think that he's making mistakes in how he's setting the team up and the type of football he wants them to play. Put Pogba, Sanchez and Lukaku in a more attacking team and I think they'd look incredible, Mourinho is stifling them at the moment imo.

Steedie said:
I'm still holding out hope that Mourinho will go to PSG in the summer.

I really dislike him the more I have to see his childish interviews and his miserable demeanor. The football is terrible, yeah we're 2nd and yeah we've won trophies, but the football is no more exciting to watch than Moyes and Mourinho

No idea who we'd get in, but it wouldn't be worse than Mourinho
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Ancelotti was my preferred choice before he went to Bayern and we got Mourinho, and I still think that he'd do a better job with our current squad than JM is doing. This summer's transfer window and next season are make or break for Jose in my opinion. It's obvious that United need another CM or two to help out Matic and allow Pogba to play with more attacking freedom, then we need a right-back to become Valencia's long-term replacement, plus we could do with shipping out a couple of our CBs and replacing them with more solid and consistent performers. If Jose manages to sort those areas of the team in the summer then he really has no excuses next season.
 
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