The Militaria Thread: Collecting and Identification

[Edrof]

Any special insurance for your collection or just covered by house contents?

My collection isn't worth a huge amount so it's covered under my normal contents insurance. I can't remember the ins and outs but I checked last year and it was all good. A recent purchase:

An 1857 Pattern Royal Engineer's sabre. This Pattern featured one of the most aesthetically pleasing guards. This one has an acid-etched blade but appears to be an issued sword, so it was likely used by a senior NCO. It was made by Mole and handles beautifully - a real sword meant for real fighting.





Interesting to note is that the guard is bent in a few places, the false edge has a couple of (possible) sword nicks in it and the ricasso is stamped with the back-to-back Rs - a marking used when a weapon was no longer fit for service. I suspect all of this means the sabre was used in action and the wielder had to clout a few enemies with the guard. After the action the guard couldn't be restored to its original shape and it was released from War Department property somehow.

 

[Dis86]

The blade on that is stunning. The guard too. You sure about it being issued to a non com? I thought they tended to be issued with much plainer less aesthetic swords with the etched blades and more ornate guards appearing on commissioned officers weaponry?

 

[Edrof]

Aye, it is lovely and thank you! Robert Mole produced a lot of swords for the War Department to be issued to troops (while officers usually bought their own), also, this doesn't have a proof slug and it is stamped with an inspection mark so I'm confident it was an NCO's weapon because of all of that. The presence of the etching suggests to me that it might have been a senior NCO's, though - like a sergeant major. The same pattern of sword could be used by enlisted man and officer alike, but the quality, maker and style of etching would change, with the officer's version generally being better as you'd expect.

Another recent purchase: an Mle 1866 Chassepot bayonet - rather elegant. This one has matching serial numbers to the scabbard and guard so they've been together for 142 years.

 

[Dis86]

Actually I have a question you may be able to answer, ive noticed quite a few British blades from the late 18th to mid 19th century have what looks like a star of David on the ricasso. Any idea what that is? Is it simply a makers mark?

 

[Edrof]

Off the top of my head, Wilkinson brought in the six-pointed star as a sign to its customers that their blades were of exceptional quality and had passed rigourous 'proofing' tests. The star is supposed to be two triangles, with triangles representing strength (as in construction). Inside the star is usually a slug. Some of these slugs have actually been levered out to be sold to jewellers as they were mistaken for gold by thickos.

Of course, like Apple's i prefix, the Wilkinson star was then nicked by other makers, although often not the quality!

You should collect, Dis.

 

[ttaskmaster]

one of the british APC has a device for making tea on the back of it I think

I thought they all did!!
Most FV-432s have a big box on the back door for boiling up and dispensing water - Chuck yer boil-in-the-foil rations in, or use it for tea/coffee/chocolate/soup... don't recommend doing in in that order, though, as the foil tends to taint the water!

 

[Dis86]

Sadly not. I ogle though, this thread to me is like the mystical porn thread that everyone hunts for on here!

I like to appreciate both the craftsmanship that goes in to arms and armour and also the engineering behind them. Also the history of not just the periods but some of the specific pieces is fascinating.

 

[Edrof]

Sadly not. I ogle though, this thread to me is like the mystical porn thread that everyone hunts for on here!

I like to appreciate both the craftsmanship that goes in to arms and armour and also the engineering behind them. Also the history of not just the periods but some of the specific pieces is fascinating.

Honestly, you should have a look around - some of it is very cheap and it's a great investment. That Mle 1866 Chassepot bayonet I just posted was a mere £45!

Another recent find:


A Mle 1892 for the Berthier carbine, as used by French mounted troops. Matching numbers, too.

 

[Krono5]

I collect Japanese Swords (I'm upto 6 now) unfortunately most of them are away undergoing restoration work which is a long tedious process so no decent photo's. Will try to take a couple of snaps of one when it comes back in a few weeks.

 

[stument]

Can anyone recommend Trusted Decent sellers for Deactivated Weapons other than World Wide Arms?

 

[Edrof]

I collect Japanese Swords (I'm upto 6 now) unfortunately most of them are away undergoing restoration work which is a long tedious process so no decent photo's. Will try to take a couple of snaps of one when it comes back in a few weeks.

That area's something I know very little about, but I do see lots of WW2 shin guntos(?) for sale. I need to try one at some point!

Can anyone recommend Trusted Decent sellers for Deactivated Weapons other than World Wide Arms?

I've bought from Jaybe Militaria in the past. D and B Militaria is great, and run by nice chaps. If you're after Soviet-themed stuff then I know the owner of Cold War Collectables and he's brilliant. WWA shift the big numbers but they are a bit shady at times.

 

[Krono5]

That area's something I know very little about, but I do see lots of WW2 shin guntos(?) for sale. I need to try one at some point!

Make sure to do a bit of research beforehand, there's a lot of chinese fakes about. The prices can vary wildly from a couple hundred for a machine made NCO to hundreds of thousands of pounds for what may look similar but has an ancestral blade.

It's a double edged sword due to the high degree of knowledge required (I consider it equivalent to a masters tbh) it can be a very easy to get bargains, especially at auctions and the like where no one else can tell the difference. On the other hand though it's easy to get burned.

For instance my best buy was probably a katana in ww2 mounts from an online auction in the middle of nowhere in Ohio which is going to be worth anywhere from 3x to 8x what I paid, depending on whether it passes shinsa (basically authentication papers issued in Japan stating it was made by the semi-famous 17th century swordsmith who it's signed by). The Japanese love their brands so there's been forgeries going on for centuries but even if it fails it was made by another competent smith of the same time period so still a good deal.

If you ever see something you fancy I'd suggest posting pictures before purchasing on http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/ which has some very knowledgeable people who will tell you the score. It's also a very educational resource.

 

[Skii]

Hi all

I thought I'd add my quick contribution to this thread. I think this is the cockpit clock from a German WW2 luftwaffe aircraft, possibly a BF109.

As long as I can remember this clock worked a treat until it went into storage a few years ago and I recently discovered it again in a dusty box. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work anymore and the 15 minute timer hand has fallen out of the face (still rattling around)

I'm tempted to take it along to the local watchmaker to have a look if he can breathe it back to life.

 

[Edrof]

Snip.

It's a fascinating field and the sword is so iconic I must get one at some point. As you say though, (like a lot in this field) there's a startling amount to learn and fakes are around so I'm scared to dip my toe in. If I do it'll be with a bargain piece where I can't lose out, I suspect. I'd love to see some of your pieces sometime.

Hi all

I thought I'd add my quick contribution to this thread. I think this is the cockpit clock from a German WW2 luftwaffe aircraft, possibly a BF109.

That's great - I'd have it ticking and on the wall. Wonder how much they cost...

 

[Dis86]

I'd definitely take that to get restored!

 

[Krono5]

It's a fascinating field and the sword is so iconic I must get one at some point. As you say though, (like a lot in this field) there's a startling amount to learn and fakes are around so I'm scared to dip my toe in. If I do it'll be with a bargain piece where I can't lose out, I suspect. I'd love to see some of your pieces sometime.

well here's one I'm expecting back sometime this year, maybe June or July.

Spoiler

And when it gets back it'll hopefully look like this (Same swordsmith): http://www.nihonto.com/8.5.15.html

 

[Maccapacca]

Birthday present from my nephew

 

[Edrof]

Well it looks like the EU's crazy, counter-productive new laws regarding deactivated weapons have been passed. Hopefully this won't result in the increase in gun crime that it looks very likely to effect. They seem to have made it cheaper and easier for criminals to get their hands on live firearms, made it easier for terrorists to smuggle live firearms across borders, and increased the circulation of live weapons.

But it's okay, because they've hugely penalised museums, re-enactors, historical collectors and antique dealers. All of which were clearly hot-beds for terrorism.

Really well done!

On a lighter note, another Swiss item here, an M1918 Schmidt-Rubin bayonet:



This is interesting in that it has been very nicely service sharpened but not mated to a rifle at the arsenal because there are no serial numbers stamped to it.

 

[Maccapacca]

I need a bayonet for my k98 and my swiss rubin, is that one off ebay? I tried one from a friends collection but it wouldn't fit. There's a slight difference between the 1911 and 1889 http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/ I wish I could try yours on mine to see if it fits.

Been looking at the comments on the EU changes and it seems like a great deal of words and no detail, none of the dealers know what's happening and there's no real announcements.

 

[Maccapacca]