The Militaria Thread: Collecting and Identification

[Edrof]

Tonights activities. Clean up and true oil various guns Starting with 310 cadet.



Nearly bought a Bren gun today. Bought a bayonet for the AKM instead.

Yeah so nearly broke and bought the Bren it was 500 each or 900 for 2...... luckily I stayed strong and bought the bayonet for the AKM

The truoil goes tacky in an hour and was rock hard in 12 hours. Going to rub it down again tonight and one more cost.

I must look into that stuff - thanks! I was lucky with my Bren and bought it for £350 (with deact cert) in January. I keeping thinking about selling it on for £500 and turning the money into an SMLE and some bayonets but then I won't have a light machine gun and I'd be sad...



They are heavy and magnificent beasts.

 

[Edrof]

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/top-buying-tips-for-a-deact-bren-light-machine-gun.html

Which one is yours?

Plus you'll be gutted when they are going for £1000 in a few years

^Very true!

My Bren is a 1943-dated Enfield Mark I receiver. Most of the other bits are Inglis parts (barrel, bipod, stock) so it was probably refurbished after the War with whatever they had lying about. It's heavy and brilliant - the action is chunky and strong as anything, and gives you the most manly 'chck-chck' sound when you rack it.

 

[Edrof]

£450-550 seems to be the going price depending upon the dates and makers. There are lots of UK militaria groups on Facebook that feature busy buying and selling if you want to have a look. Things are usually a bit cheaper than dealer prices and it gives you a good idea of market prices.

The great thing about this stuff is, as you say, it only really goes up in value so even if you don't get a bargain today you'll still make a profit if you hang on to it long enough.

 

[Edrof]

Mine arrived today too.

I'm tempted by the TT30's price (and their Uzis seem cheap) but you never know what you're getting with WWA. Annoyingly they don't list replicas as such, either: check out the sabres on pages 12 and 26 - I'm pretty sure originals would twice the price at least, yet nowhere does it say they are modern reproductions.

 

[Edrof]

I'm in the market for an SMLE now (or a Lee Enfield Number 4) - just need to find a seller. I also want more Mosin Nagants! It never ends. Anyway, got your Bren yet, Macca?

Some recent purchases to share. Y'all won't be able to I.D. all of them so don't even bother.

 

[Edrof]

A pair? You're buying two Brens?! Good show!

 

[Edrof]

Latest big purchase:



After about twenty years of drooling over them in books, I’ve finally got my hands on my favourite rifle: the Short Magazine Lee Enfield! This is a very important object for us Brits: an outstanding design when we needed it most and, it could be said, one of the reasons why this post isn’t written in German. This particular rifle is a deactivated Aussie-made Lithgow—original coachwood furniture cut from south-eastern Australian trees, fully matching numbers and wartime dated.

Accurate up to something like 550 yards and with an effective range of 3,000, this was our principle infantry weapon during World War One and was still being used well into World War Two. It just about outclassed Germany’s Mauser, which had been considered peerless until then, as it had a much faster action and twice the magazine capability. It’s oft-quoted that, early in the war, some German units thought they were under British machine-gun fire when it was actually well-drilled rifleman having a go at them. It was an accurate, robust and reliable weapon; and much-loved by soldiers and modern shooters alike. Indeed, it is STILL in service today amongst some police forces (the Canadian Rangers have only just replaced their updated version of the SMLE—the No.4—this year, and that was partly due to the parts being hard to find). Some Enfields have even been found in the hands of the Taliban, with the venerable .303 British round out-ranging the modern 5.56mm NATO. There’s at least one account of a squad of US Marines being pinned down and harassed by a Taliban marksman with an Enfield.

So anyway, look upon its beauty, try to smell the history through the screen and think about our boys who had to shoot it in anger.

 

[Edrof]

Thanks chaps! I wanted a WWI-dated SMLE ideally, but this is a perfect WWII example so I couldn't say no, really.

Nice! What replaced the Lee Enfield? From D-day onwards did we use the M1 Garand?

We still had SMLEs knocking about the place, but we tweaked the design to make it easier for recruits to use and cheaper for factories to produce. This tweaked rifle was called the Lee Enfield Number 4 and it lasted as our service rifle until the end of the 1950s when it was replaced by the SLR - the British Army's version of the FN FAL.

 

[Edrof]

Got your Brens yet Maccapacca?

I took a few shots of mine today:

 

[Edrof]

I haven't got any German stuff yet. As Macca says, a lot is faked and I feel like you need to do a lot of research to gain 'the knowledge' before wading in with hard-earned cash!

I thought you had bought a Bren already, Macca?

 

[Edrof]

I'm the same as you, Macca: I scratched my head about what SMLE I wanted for about a year!

Like all of these things Brens vary in price - it depends upon what is important to you as a collector. Do you want an early British-made model with matching numbers, the 'dovetail' and all MkI parts (barrel, bipod, buttstock, carry handle, magazine release catch, charging handle were all slightly altered for the MkIM and MkII)? We sent 30,000 of those with the BEF in France and lost about 28,000 of them at Dunkirk. That means they are double in price to some other Brens.

Also some collectors love the roughed-up look as it suggests the 'weapon' was used.

One of the best places for deactivated Brens is Saracen Exports - I've chatted with the owner and he's a nice chap with some of the lowest prices.

Mine's about in the middle: some early MkI features, wartime dated, some John Inglis parts, Enfield receiver - all good condition but the wood has been slung about a frontline somewhere and most of the bluing has gone.

 

[Edrof]

Ha ha, sorry! What are you confused about?

 

[Edrof]

So everything then.

Just decide what you like most.

Wartime date or after?
British-made or Commonwealth?
Perfect condition or a bit rough around the edges?

I'm in this hobby for the history so a wartime date was essential for me, but the condition didn't matter and neither did the fact mine is a British receiver with Canadian parts. The really early MkI stuff that I listed above is only for purist collectors, really. Unless you have deep pockets!

 

[Edrof]

All I'll say is that one's pretty much the apex and dealers are quite happy to barter.

 

[Edrof]

Here you go, 1940 Enfield Mk1 Bren .303 LMG matching numbers, original and well used.

I'm not sure the barrel carry handle (the one on the table) is correct and it would have had a rear carry handle as well. Think I'll find both of these over the coming months. And a tripod You can go on and on collecting all the right gear, boxes, spare barrels with carry case, all the correct tools, the list is extensive

Beautiful, very well done indeed! The barrel handle is correct in that armourers would use any part they had available, regardless of Mark. But yeah, that handle is a Mark II, and it looks like the rest of the Bren is Mark I so it would be more fitting to source an earlier one. I think the rear butt handle is something to do with stabilising the gun when using it in the anti-aircraft role - there are lots of repros of them about, though.

You're right when you say there's lots to buy - you'll know you've gone too far when you find yourself owning the original, super-rare gunsight that fits into the dovetail slot on your receiver's left side. I last saw one at auction and the estimate was £3,000!

 

[Edrof]

Fixed line sight or something? I don't actually know how it works but I think they took them off and trialed some Enfield Number 4 sniper rifles with it. (Purely from memory: I might be making that all up!)

 

[Edrof]

Sorted your barrel handle yet Macca? Sadly, I'm going to shift my Bren. I really, really, really want a nice 1796 Light Cavalry sabre and the Bren takes up a lot of space. Swords can go on the wall; light MGs can't. Also want to sell my lovely 1886 boxlock as that's gathering dust in a wardrobe right now.

Edit: swirly Damascus steel barrels...



...maybe I'll just keep it.

 

[Edrof]

The logical answer is to buy a bigger house.

Why didn't I think of that? Or convert the garden to a bunker...

** No sales talk please **

 

[Edrof]

I heard this last night and considered making a separate thread in GD. Some people are really panicking and all sorts of things are being said!

I agree that the tightening up of EU deactivation standards is good as this will mostly be bringing things into line with the UK's current standards, anyway. I strongly disagree that the deac collectors should be hit YET AGAIN, though, and banning certain models is utterly bizarre. A deactivated AK47 is just as useless as any other deactivated gun.

Let's be clear: deacs are a good thing. These items can longer hurt anyone and are owned by hundreds of reputable dealers and thousands of law-abiding collectors who understand their historical significance. Each deac is another real gun out of circulation, and criminals will always be able to source actual firearms, anyway.

 

[Edrof]

Different firearm types are deactivated in different ways and UK-standards are pretty harsh. Some are welded solid.