The Militaria Thread: Collecting and Identification
- Thread starter Edrof
- Start date
Latest big purchase:
After about twenty years of drooling over them in books, I’ve finally got my hands on my favourite rifle: the Short Magazine Lee Enfield! This is a very important object for us Brits: an outstanding design when we needed it most and, it could be said, one of the reasons why this post isn’t written in German. This particular rifle is a deactivated Aussie-made Lithgow—original coachwood furniture cut from south-eastern Australian trees, fully matching numbers and wartime dated.
Accurate up to something like 550 yards and with an effective range of 3,000, this was our principle infantry weapon during World War One and was still being used well into World War Two. It just about outclassed Germany’s Mauser, which had been considered peerless until then, as it had a much faster action and twice the magazine capability. It’s oft-quoted that, early in the war, some German units thought they were under British machine-gun fire when it was actually well-drilled rifleman having a go at them. It was an accurate, robust and reliable weapon; and much-loved by soldiers and modern shooters alike. Indeed, it is STILL in service today amongst some police forces (the Canadian Rangers have only just replaced their updated version of the SMLE—the No.4—this year, and that was partly due to the parts being hard to find). Some Enfields have even been found in the hands of the Taliban, with the venerable .303 British round out-ranging the modern 5.56mm NATO. There’s at least one account of a squad of US Marines being pinned down and harassed by a Taliban marksman with an Enfield.
So anyway, look upon its beauty, try to smell the history through the screen and think about our boys who had to shoot it in anger.
After about twenty years of drooling over them in books, I’ve finally got my hands on my favourite rifle: the Short Magazine Lee Enfield! This is a very important object for us Brits: an outstanding design when we needed it most and, it could be said, one of the reasons why this post isn’t written in German. This particular rifle is a deactivated Aussie-made Lithgow—original coachwood furniture cut from south-eastern Australian trees, fully matching numbers and wartime dated.
Accurate up to something like 550 yards and with an effective range of 3,000, this was our principle infantry weapon during World War One and was still being used well into World War Two. It just about outclassed Germany’s Mauser, which had been considered peerless until then, as it had a much faster action and twice the magazine capability. It’s oft-quoted that, early in the war, some German units thought they were under British machine-gun fire when it was actually well-drilled rifleman having a go at them. It was an accurate, robust and reliable weapon; and much-loved by soldiers and modern shooters alike. Indeed, it is STILL in service today amongst some police forces (the Canadian Rangers have only just replaced their updated version of the SMLE—the No.4—this year, and that was partly due to the parts being hard to find). Some Enfields have even been found in the hands of the Taliban, with the venerable .303 British round out-ranging the modern 5.56mm NATO. There’s at least one account of a squad of US Marines being pinned down and harassed by a Taliban marksman with an Enfield.
So anyway, look upon its beauty, try to smell the history through the screen and think about our boys who had to shoot it in anger.
Delightful
Edrof you're a bad influence. That's another I'll have to hide from the missus.
Man of Honour
Fantastic rifle. It was used quite a lot in Afghanistan during the 80s during the Soviet/Afghan war. It apparently inflicted far greater damage than the modern equivalent due to the large calibre round and was feared amongst the Soviet ranks.
I would not want to be on the end of that bayonet either. How awful eh.
I would not want to be on the end of that bayonet either. How awful eh.
Soldato
Nice! What replaced the Lee Enfield? From D-day onwards did we use the M1 Garand?
Thanks chaps! I wanted a WWI-dated SMLE ideally, but this is a perfect WWII example so I couldn't say no, really.
We still had SMLEs knocking about the place, but we tweaked the design to make it easier for recruits to use and cheaper for factories to produce. This tweaked rifle was called the Lee Enfield Number 4 and it lasted as our service rifle until the end of the 1950s when it was replaced by the SLR - the British Army's version of the FN FAL.
We still had SMLEs knocking about the place, but we tweaked the design to make it easier for recruits to use and cheaper for factories to produce. This tweaked rifle was called the Lee Enfield Number 4 and it lasted as our service rifle until the end of the 1950s when it was replaced by the SLR - the British Army's version of the FN FAL.
You sod. That strips down nicely
German stuff is a fortune. For dealers there's very little money in them unless the manage to steal a bargain from a collection. There's lots of fakes or adapted non German to look German. Many are back alley stamped with the swastika. It's a minefield if you excuse the pun.
I did a deal for some work in exchange for a Bren. Unfortunately the guy I did the work for is in a bit of trouble on a few sites and literally hasn't got a penny. He's juggling buying materials from one sites payment to another. I feel for him as it's one customer just being awkward so I'm not going to add to his pressure.
He says he'll get it just not at the moment.
I'm tempted just to buy one myself.
Been looking and I have my eye on a mk1 but it's pretty rough in comparison to a mk2 or 3.
Do I want a nice clean mk2 or a well used mk1?
He says he'll get it just not at the moment.
I'm tempted just to buy one myself.
Been looking and I have my eye on a mk1 but it's pretty rough in comparison to a mk2 or 3.
Do I want a nice clean mk2 or a well used mk1?
Soldato
You should read some modern combat books (3 Para, Sniper one) they talk of just pink mist after they opened up on the taliban with a .50
I have some inert ammo and a Berreta blank firer, upload some pics later.
I'm the same as you, Macca: I scratched my head about what SMLE I wanted for about a year!
Like all of these things Brens vary in price - it depends upon what is important to you as a collector. Do you want an early British-made model with matching numbers, the 'dovetail' and all MkI parts (barrel, bipod, buttstock, carry handle, magazine release catch, charging handle were all slightly altered for the MkIM and MkII)? We sent 30,000 of those with the BEF in France and lost about 28,000 of them at Dunkirk. That means they are double in price to some other Brens.
Also some collectors love the roughed-up look as it suggests the 'weapon' was used.
One of the best places for deactivated Brens is Saracen Exports - I've chatted with the owner and he's a nice chap with some of the lowest prices.
Mine's about in the middle: some early MkI features, wartime dated, some John Inglis parts, Enfield receiver - all good condition but the wood has been slung about a frontline somewhere and most of the bluing has gone.
Like all of these things Brens vary in price - it depends upon what is important to you as a collector. Do you want an early British-made model with matching numbers, the 'dovetail' and all MkI parts (barrel, bipod, buttstock, carry handle, magazine release catch, charging handle were all slightly altered for the MkIM and MkII)? We sent 30,000 of those with the BEF in France and lost about 28,000 of them at Dunkirk. That means they are double in price to some other Brens.
Also some collectors love the roughed-up look as it suggests the 'weapon' was used.
One of the best places for deactivated Brens is Saracen Exports - I've chatted with the owner and he's a nice chap with some of the lowest prices.
Mine's about in the middle: some early MkI features, wartime dated, some John Inglis parts, Enfield receiver - all good condition but the wood has been slung about a frontline somewhere and most of the bluing has gone.
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You're a bad man giving me that link
http://historicguns.co.uk/Deactivated guns.htm
Was looking at that but it's all very confusing now
http://historicguns.co.uk/Deactivated guns.htm
Was looking at that but it's all very confusing now
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The range of prices and the models and slight tweaks to design plus country of manufacture plus deactivation date etc etc
So everything then.
Just decide what you like most.
Wartime date or after?
British-made or Commonwealth?
Perfect condition or a bit rough around the edges?
I'm in this hobby for the history so a wartime date was essential for me, but the condition didn't matter and neither did the fact mine is a British receiver with Canadian parts. The really early MkI stuff that I listed above is only for purist collectors, really. Unless you have deep pockets!
Just decide what you like most.
Wartime date or after?
British-made or Commonwealth?
Perfect condition or a bit rough around the edges?
I'm in this hobby for the history so a wartime date was essential for me, but the condition didn't matter and neither did the fact mine is a British receiver with Canadian parts. The really early MkI stuff that I listed above is only for purist collectors, really. Unless you have deep pockets!