The next Conservative Leader thread.

Status
Not open for further replies.
The first only happened because of declining pay and conditions brought about by the financial crisis. More than wiped out by the increase in VAT and loss of benefits such as EMA.

For the second, first I don't accept that the snooper's charter is a bad thing and secondly, that block really lasted a long time didn't it?

The tax reforms were a lib dem policy and without that policy the Tory cuts would have been much harsher!

Don't think it is the lib dem's fault that the country elected a Tory government who will try endlessly to get the snoopers charter through!

There are many other examples of flag ship liberal policy such as the pupil premium etc but it will be 10-20 years before the coalition government gets any sort of sensible review as we will be further away from tuition fees and austerity.
 
I totally agree, and how did the electorate thank the LibDems? They almost wiped them out.

They deserved it.

You might think it was a good government, I thought it was dire. I, like many others, voted LibDem because we supported the notion of Britain becoming more of a Social Democracy like those on the continent. Instead, the Lib Dems enabled the most red blooded right wing government in years, betrayed their headline promises, and helped deeply unpleasant regressive policies like the Bedroom Tax through the door.

The Lib Dems went against what most of their voters were voting for them for and they paid the price.
 
I've been saying this ever since but most simply don't seem to get it and are so hung up on the tuition fees thing that they can't see the wood for the trees

Tuition fees are just the totemic issue. The overall policy programme they enabled was strongly opposite to the position the Lib Dem's had outlined for years.

So lifting 3 million poor people out of the income tax bracket and cutting the income tax of 26 million by a significant amount was nothing (both results claimed by the tory party)

The hike in the income tax threshold was not good policy. Most of the money from it went to middle to upper income households and it did nothing to help the very poorest who got hammered by the other policies the Lib Dems enabled.

Blocking the conservative backed snoopers charter?? there are plenty more examples if you are willing to look!

A pure Tory government was never an option. That they blocked a few things that the Tories wouldn't have got through regardless isn't much of an achievement, especially set against all the policies they enabled.
 
I wasn't even alive, but if the wiki editors are up to snuff:



Seems not entirely dissimilar to the con-dems government, economic reality forces some failed promises and cuts but progress was made towards key social and economic goals.

Anyway, if we need to go back to the 1960's to find the 'next best' can coalition government be a bad thing?

You have to remember though that these were totally different times. This was only nineteen years after the end of the WW11. The country was not only trying to rebuild a shattered economy but also a shattered country and effect great social change at the same time.

It was actually a great time to be alive.
 
The hike in the income tax threshold was not good policy. Most of the money from it went to middle to upper income households and it did nothing to help the very poorest who got hammered by the other policies the Lib Dems enabled.



.

So 3 million of the lowest income families in the UK not paying income tax is benefiting mainly middle and upper earners? Yes it benefited them as well but saying it didn't benefit the low earners and isn't still benefiting low earners is disingenuous. It also made raising the income tax threshold a serious policy issue and we have seen continued rises when previously there was no expectation of an increase.

The rest is just the British misunderstanding of a coalition government the lib dems had three choices, put Gordon Browns failed administration back into number ten, put David Camerons conservatives who had only just missed out on a majority into number 10 with there backing or put David Cameron into number 10 leading a minority tory government and give us two years of chaos followed by another general election at a time when the country needed stability. Yes they had to compromise but that is what happens when your very much the minority party in a coalition government was the deal perfect no was it better than the current mess definitely. Had we had another Con Lib coalition there would have been no referendum for starters!
 
The rest is just the British misunderstanding of a coalition government the lib dems had three choices, put Gordon Browns failed administration back into number ten, put David Camerons conservatives who had only just missed out on a majority into number 10 with there backing or put David Cameron into number 10 leading a minority tory government and give us two years of chaos followed by another general election at a time when the country needed stability. Yes they had to compromise but that is what happens when your very much the minority party in a coalition government was the deal perfect no was it better than the current mess definitely. Had we had another Con Lib coalition there would have been no referendum for starters!

The British public really shouldn't be allowed to vote :| lol
 
So 3 million of the lowest income families in the UK not paying income tax is benefiting mainly middle and upper earners? Yes it benefited them as well but saying it didn't benefit the low earners and isn't still benefiting low earners is disingenuous. It also made raising the income tax threshold a serious policy issue and we have seen continued rises when previously there was no expectation of an increase.

Yes, it helped low income families - not the lowest income families because many of them don't earn enough to benefit - but most of the money went to middle and upper income groups and it was these who benefited the most in percentage terms. This effect is even more pronounced with the further rises introduced more recently and with those rises where they chose not to balance the effect by lowering the higher tax threshold. And, yes, it made this a popular tax policy. But making a bad tax policy popular and, worse, selling a giveaway that mostly gives money to the upper half of the household income distribution as being for the benefit of the poor is not a good outcome. People are misguided enough about the reality of income and taxation in this country as it is.

The rest is just the British misunderstanding of a coalition government the lib dems had three choices, put Gordon Browns failed administration back into number ten, put David Camerons conservatives who had only just missed out on a majority into number 10 with there backing or put David Cameron into number 10 leading a minority tory government and give us two years of chaos followed by another general election at a time when the country needed stability.

I don't think it was possible for the Lib Dems to form a coalition with Labour. Their choices were for a coalition, form a looser agreement, or force the Tories to simply make do with a minority government. They chose coalition and then made an utter hashjob of it.

I don't buy the stability argument. What the country needed was good governance, instead it got five years of Tory economic incompetence enabled by the Lib Dems who went into the election with vastly more sensible economic policies.

Yes they had to compromise but that is what happens when your very much the minority party in a coalition government was the deal perfect no was it better than the current mess definitely. Had we had another Con Lib coalition there would have been no referendum for starters!

They chose to be the minority party, as coalitions the world over have shown, it's perfectly possible for the minority party to have powerful influence. Instead Clegg chose to enable an almost entirely Tory government with a few token Lib Dem policies, a promise of Lord's reform he bungled, and a referendum on a voting system no-one wanted. Worse, he threw away his party's most potent bargaining tool with the fixed term parliament act. If you want a textbook example of how to bungle a coalition and make your party suffer as a result, the Lib Dem's delivered it.

As for a pure Tory government being worse - well, I agree, but in 2010 pure Tory wasn't an option but Clegg made sure we got something very close to it.
 
They deserved it.

You might think it was a good government, I thought it was dire. I, like many others, voted LibDem because we supported the notion of Britain becoming more of a Social Democracy like those on the continent. Instead, the Lib Dems enabled the most red blooded right wing government in years, betrayed their headline promises, and helped deeply unpleasant regressive policies like the Bedroom Tax through the door.

The Lib Dems went against what most of their voters were voting for them for and they paid the price.

What was the alternative? I don't think the previous coalition was necessarily "good", but it's infinitely better than a conservative majority government. The LibDems stopped or at least delayed lots of poor legislation. For a small party to have that influence on government policy can only be a good thing. Would I have like a LibDem majority and a social democrat administration? Yes, but that was never an option.

I get your anger and frustration, a coalition was always a compromise but having the LibDems in coalition was a positive move, even if it wasn't what I really wanted. We needed stability and we got that.
 
Last edited:
Liam Fox eliminated after first round in Tory leadership
Posted at
18:31
Graham Brady, chairman of the backbench Conservative 1922 committee reads out the results of the leadership ballot.

Theresa May: 165

Andrea Leadsom: 66

Michael Gove: 48

Stephen Crabb: 34

Liam Fox: 16

Liam Fox is eliminated after the first round.

May already has half the vote... does this even need to continue?

Ah wait a minute, this is before "members" vote, so i guess its still going.
 
What was the alternative?

Doing a better job of being in coalition. Not signing up to dumber than dishwater things like the fixed term parliament act and simply refusing to let the Tories get their legislative agenda through until they delivered on things the Lib Dems wanted. Or, if they couldn't get decent options from the Tories, simply not entering coalition.

I don't think the previous coalition was necessarily "good", but it's infinitely better than a conservative majority government.

So what? The Conservatives didn't win a majority! The question that matters is not whether the Lib Dems did better than a majority government, it's whether they did better than a minority government.
 
Surely a very moderate remainer with the principles to execute article 50 is the best candidate. Andrea "Leave Max" Leadsom is hardly representing a balanced view of the will of the electorate.

Yes, exactly. No Leaver should be allowed to front the negotiations. We need someone who will deliver the best deal for Britain not cling to hard ideological lines.
 
Yes, exactly. No Leaver should be allowed to front the negotiations. We need someone who will deliver the best deal for Britain not cling to hard ideological lines.

So essentially we shouldn't have someone who shares the views of the majority of the country, we should disregard those views because they're "hard ideological lines" and just go along with whatever is best economically
 
So essentially we shouldn't have someone who shares the views of the majority of the country, we should disregard those views because they're "hard ideological lines" and just go along with whatever is best economically

Slight majority of people that voted != majority of the country

Whoever is in charge needs to find a way to get both sides on-side, and act in the best interests of the country, not be hamstrung in negotiations by a lack of flexibility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom