The next Labour leader thread

I'm torn. On the one hand, Corbyn was given a huge mandate by the membership of the Labour party. The membership will be incredibly disgruntled if he is removed by the Westminster elite.

On the other hand, he's done an absolutely dreadful job as leader. It has nothing to do with his politics but his effectiveness as a leader. He's weak and timid. He doesn't look capable of widening/moving the Overton window, let alone winning a general election.

Perhaps Labour need to keep Corbyn and get smashed at the next election to move on. The main problem with the Labour party is its membership has no interest in choosing a leader who's electable.

The leader they need is Nicola Sturgeon though.
 
Tunney said:
Perhaps Labour need to keep Corbyn and get smashed at the next election to move on.
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He's facing the Ed dilemma: the people he desires to reach may benefit from his politics, but they do not recognise them as beneficial. That is, he assumes a shift to the left, whilst the country remains small c conservative, and in the North more so on social issues. What would net him those precious votes? Well, doing things unpopular with his supporters, which means he won't do them, as it's the only way he can survive as Labour leader. And I think he feels that he can't resign, because the last time he was the only guy from his side of the party to stand, and as Perma and I discussed -- there aren't many candidates in the wings. Catch 22.
 
People in this thread have mentioned the support that Corbyn has in the wider Labour party from his landslide leadership win in stark contrast to the turmoil inside the PLP, but does the wider support still exist?

I was a Corbyn supporter, but after his abject showing in the referendum campaign I am no longer.

Whether Corbyn personally wants to be in the EU or not, one of his main jobs as leader of the opposition is to point out the faults of the government and offer an alternate view.

For example, one of the main issues in the referendum for Brexit supporters was the reduction or strain in local services, with population growth from immigration a major factor in this reduction.

Why the hell did Corbyn and the rest of the Labour party not point out that the lack of services is primarily the result of the Conservative austerity agenda not population growth? Labour pro-remainers should have been banging that drum for months in the run up to the referendum. It was free hits against the Tories but it was never mentioned.

Whether you are brexit or remainer, at least do your job as leader of the opposition! And for that reason alone I no longer support Corbyn.
 
datalol-jack said:
He's facing the Ed dilemma: the people he desires to reach may benefit from his politics, but they do not recognise them as beneficial. That is, he assumes a shift to the left, whilst the country remains small c conservative, and in the North more so on social issues. What would net him those precious votes? Well, doing things unpopular with his supporters, which means he won't do them, as it's the only way he can survive as Labour leader. And I think he feels that he can't resign, because the last time he was the only guy from his side of the party to stand, and as Perma and I discussed -- there aren't many candidates in the wings. Catch 22.
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which is why they need someone from the centre of the labour party. Atleast someone who has a chance of no getting another defeat at a ge. Jeramy corbin cannot be that person, sure he's popular with his supporters, but thats not enough is it. He needs to persuade and gain support from non-labour voters.

Afterall, the labour party exists to get its policies into law. jeramy was never going to be able to do that.

I know blair and new labour are a dirty word but it was labours most successful period. they need to move back to the centre ground.

Although you're right, the electorate have lost trust in not just labour but politicians and experts as a whole and that is a problem no one seems to know how to fix. But if its not fixed i do fear where this country is heading.
 
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If Corbyn reigns not only is he adding to the call to treat the democratic will of the members with contempt, changing the result just because some MPs don't like it and can't stomach their pride for even nine months to make it work, and have undermined him at every turn, but he'd be justifying the PLP in their actions. It sets a prescient, and I don't think anyone, anywhere on the political spectrum would disagree with the fact that this sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable from a major political party at a time when the country needs them most.
 
PermaBanned said:
If Corbyn reigns not only is he adding to the call to treat the democratic will of the members with contempt, changing the result just because some MPs don't like it and can't stomach their pride for even nine months to make it work, and have undermined him at every turn, but he'd be justifying the PLP in their actions. It sets a prescient, and I don't think anyone, anywhere on the political spectrum would disagree with the fact that this sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable from a major political party at a time when the country needs them most.
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But isn't equally as unacceptable to keep inept and week leaders around just for the sake of it?
 
For the sake of the fact that they were democratically elected? That doesn't seem important to you?

Naturally I don't agree with your opinion of Corbyn, especially considering his own team have been against him from the start.
 
PermaBanned said:
For the sake of the fact that they were democratically elected? That doesn't seem important to you?

Naturally I don't agree with your opinion of Corbyn, especially considering his own team have been against him from the start.
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Democratic results don't appear to mean much to some in the Labour party so I can't see that being a big issue for them in terms of getting rid of Corbyn.

The way I see it if your a Labour supporter now and would do anything to get the Conservatives out at the next election I would look to get at getting a middle of the road candidate who doesn't hold strong opinions either way and someone who could half imagine as being a Prime Minister. There's a chance the country might be bad state in 4 years time or the country could be a in decent place but the Tories are in civil war and don't back Boris.

That's a lot of if's and maybes but it's Labours only shot, they will never get in with JC (lets face it if Ed Miliband didn't connect with the public JC never will).
 
datalol-jack said:
He's facing the Ed dilemma: the people he desires to reach may benefit from his politics, but they do not recognise them as beneficial. That is, he assumes a shift to the left, whilst the country remains small c conservative, and in the North more so on social issues. What would net him those precious votes? Well, doing things unpopular with his supporters, which means he won't do them, as it's the only way he can survive as Labour leader. And I think he feels that he can't resign, because the last time he was the only guy from his side of the party to stand, and as Perma and I discussed -- there aren't many candidates in the wings. Catch 22.
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All Labour would have to do to win the next election is say they don't believe in open borders any more.
 
Lol, now I've heard it all. What we need to win is a candidate who doesn't hold strong opinions! Who knew.

I don't have any problems with Corbyn's referendum campaign, I thought it was refreshingly honest and truthful. His "7/10" approach to the EU accurately reflects the thoughts of a lot of the British public, and going forward with him will be far better than parachuting in some europhile who pledges to ignore the referendum result.
 
phil675 said:
All Labour would have to do to win the next election is say they don't believe in open borders any more.
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Perhaps as a marketing gimmick, which like Cameron's silliness will backfire. Without a robust immigration policy, we are sunk demographically and economically, even with full employment, and that includes the sick, the old and the disabled being pressed into service with sticks, carrots or begging. They do make more sense when they talk about the unfair agency practices, community impact funds (cut incidentally only to be promised to be restored :\) , worker competition and reform of social security and enforcement internationally though.
 
Funny thing is, Corbyn's the only one who's actually been proposing a legitimate Labour position on immigration. Reinstate the migrant impact fund to help communities that have suffered as a result of immigration, and work to tackle the driving forces of mass migration at the source - inequality across the continent, war in the middle east. Other Labour politicians either just sidestep the issue entirely, or go on about how great immigration is. Which is certainly true from an economic perspective, but it's preaching to the choir, it's not a vote winner.

We could campaign for migration caps, but as we've seen from the Tory government they're totally ineffective and unworkable, so we'd effectively be lying to win votes. And the thing about that is, the party doesn't believe in them. The party's natural instinct is to stand up for those without a voice in our current political climate, because they need someone to do so - years of Tory pandering to their voters on this issue has made the legal system surrounding immigration an absolute nightmare, at the cost of countless hours of legal professionals and the quality of live of working people and families.
 
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