The next Labour leader thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37146729

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has urged Labour voters to ditch Jeremy Corbyn as leader and vote for Owen Smith in the party's leadership contest.

Mr Khan told BBC News Mr Corbyn had "failed to win the trust and respect of the British people".

Nice bit of gratitude there from Sadiq. A few after using Corbyn's Momentum youth movement to win him the London mayoralty, he stabs Corbyn in the back.
 
Casting my mind to that particular campaign, which was a surprising and pleasant success of a very conventional and positive approach, it distanced itself from Corbyn and Momentum from day one; further, as an independent movement, Momentum had a choice of whom to support and no obligation to fall in behind Khan either.
 
What a load of rubbish. Khan won on his own merit; he owes nothing to Corbyn.

Nothing to do with London's demographics at all ;).

Also what right does he have to say that Corbyn's lost the support of the British people... last i heard this was 2016 and not election time at all...
 
I find it depressing, regardless of the merits (and problems) of either candidate, that one candidate's failure to recognize Ant and Dec is considered relevant to their candidacy.

Reminds me of an analyst who says that Gore lost to W. Bush because the American people thought Gore was "too intelligent".
 
I find it depressing, regardless of the merits (and problems) of either candidate, that one candidate's failure to recognize Ant and Dec is considered relevant to their candidacy.

Reminds me of an analyst who says that Gore lost to W. Bush because the American people thought Gore was "too intelligent".

Except... Gore did not lose :)
 
I find it depressing, regardless of the merits (and problems) of either candidate, that one candidate's failure to recognize Ant and Dec is considered relevant to their candidacy.

Reminds me of an analyst who says that Gore lost to W. Bush because the American people thought Gore was "too intelligent".

The irony of the age is that authentic is forced into meaning 'more human'. Popular culture helps one connect with the masses, apparently. And I'd have also liked to contend that A&D aren't that popular, but it seems they're doing better than The Voice these days! Depressing.:(
 
Forced authenticity seems to be losing it's grip, Tony Blair gave us a masterclass that we haven't forgotten.
BoJo is a smart guy who is routinely highbrow but it's seen as part of his character and thus tolerated. Farage is similar he sounds and looks like a stockbroker but that doesn't matter. Corbyn must be the quintessential example, shabby, ill suited to the job, poor grasp of political reality but loved and adored seemingly for it.
Meanwhile the never ending conveyor of career politicians who won't admit their own nature and pretend to be men/women of the people can barely raise an iota of interest outside the bubble of politics.
 
Forced authenticity seems to be losing it's grip, Tony Blair gave us a masterclass that we haven't forgotten.
BoJo is a smart guy who is routinely highbrow but it's seen as part of his character and thus tolerated. Farage is similar he sounds and looks like a stockbroker but that doesn't matter. Corbyn must be the quintessential example, shabby, ill suited to the job, poor grasp of political reality but loved and adored seemingly for it.
Meanwhile the never ending conveyor of career politicians who won't admit their own nature and pretend to be men/women of the people can barely raise an iota of interest outside the bubble of politics.

+1
 
Did anybody see the interview of Sadiq Khan about the Labour leadership contest? Sounded like he has the same speech coach as Ed Milliband. He was robotically repeating the exact same things over and over again and just way he was delivering each sentence was exactly like Ed, which is awful.
 
Did anybody see the interview of Sadiq Khan about the Labour leadership contest? Sounded like he has the same speech coach as Ed Milliband. He was robotically repeating the exact same things over and over again and just way he was delivering each sentence was exactly like Ed, which is awful.

No I didn't but Khan is a self serving slimeball which says it all. He'd sell his soul for a quick buck.

The days of dedicated politicians is drawing to a close and the "establishment" reference is slotting into what we get. People answer to politicians and politicians answer to big business. In a democracy that system should be on its head.
 
No I didn't but Khan is a self serving slimeball which says it all. He'd sell his soul for a quick buck.

Khan is a 'self-serving slimeball' to the extent Corbyn is a working-class hero, Boris is charming, Trump is principled, Nige is straightforward and Bernie Sanders is a crypto-communist. Incidentally, all of them retained speechwriters and repeated themselves frequently on air: a reasonable communications strategy appropriate for the medium, where one can face one or both of the two significant obstacles to one's message: hostile interlocutor; short attention spans in the audience. Moreover, running for London Mayor and jumping behind the losing side of a leadership contest -- with the process, scrutiny and public engagement this entails -- is a funny way of making a 'quick buck' for a qualified lawyer, just sayin'.

To Khan's credit: he did face the media; didn't hide in toilets; answered claims and criticisms against him directly; defined himself and his stance on issues publicly; did not avoid debates; and canvassed broadly, including in majority conservative areas. Yes, there will be recurring attack themes against Corbyn; just as there will be common attack themes against Smith. If neither candidate had to face up to anything uncomfortable, it'd have been a pointless exercise. Indeed, if there was nothing uncomfortable for Corbyn to face up to, and he commanded the confidence of his own party, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

The days of dedicated politicians is drawing to a close and the "establishment" reference is slotting into what we get.

That's just wishful thinking.

The days of amateur demagogues and mob rule aren't about to return any time soon, either. It's a full-time, demanding job; and although professional, academic and life experience outside politics is admirable and valuable, experience, competency and communication skills in the job are not optional -- it's called public office for a reason, and why hopefuls for MP candidacy are often advised to stand for local councils first, for example.

And it is through representatives with the above qualities, that can take public office, you obtain lasting change in a representative democracy, safeguarded against regression. Waving placards, taking part in petty vandalism, ranting on social media or, in extreme cases, killing MPs, acts of war and terrorism can only take one so far.

People answer to politicians and politicians answer to big business. In a democracy that system should be on its head.

Congratulations, sir, you've discovered organised societies and markets, though you seem to be missing a few arrows on your conceptual diagram! It's more grey than that: concentrated voting, value and group identification and consumer behaviour can flip the power pyramid any which way, even under neoliberal norms you seem to rail against often enough. However, what democracy is ought to be tomorrow doesn't free you from the historical effects of bad choices (as you perceive anyway) by other people today, nor swallowing their consequences in the system as it stands. This negative effect of democratic freedom cannot be eliminated regardless of the form of democracy you adopt or how closely representative it is.

In fact, it's not the 'establishment' that needs dismantling or defending as such, but rather the opposite extreme case of people being fundamentally rational and able to coexist in social groups without superstructures of state and industry, whilst reaping the full benefits of the two, that requires proving and backing with empirical evidence. (For that's where most bottom-up arguments find their root.) Or putting the problem more succinctly: an unintended consequence for every libertarian; a dictator for every populist.

If you think creative destruction, protest and the vague 'voice of the people' is a viable solution that can be put into a working social model and policies; I wish the very best of luck to you in your noble endeavour.
 
The days of dedicated politicians is drawing to a close and the "establishment" reference is slotting into what we get.

Corbyn is, of course, a dedicated politician who has never had a job outside of politics whereas Smith has had a successful career outside politics, as has Khan for that matter. Funny how these things work.
 
Everyone knew labour was screwed, but by trying to topple each candidate they themselves elect without letting the public decide, not only proves that notion, but also resets the recovery time, by ensuring distrust in labour is the public perception.

Recovery takes time, and literally - they are saying they want to win the next election.

Corbyn needs to prove to the public that he can't do the job, and they - public and MPs, then need to know how to improve on his failings. Not shoot him down every opportunity they get - All I'm seeing are fresh faces that have barely had any national attention - trying to take corbyn down and put themselves out there is political suicide (as per past challengers).
 
Everyone knew labour was screwed, but by trying to topple each candidate they themselves elect without letting the public decide, not only proves that notion, but also resets the recovery time, by ensuring distrust in labour is the public perception.

Recovery takes time, and literally - they are saying they want to win the next election.

Corbyn needs to prove to the public that he can't do the job, and they - public and MPs, then need to know how to improve on his failings. Not shoot him down every opportunity they get - All I'm seeing are fresh faces that have barely had any national attention - trying to take corbyn down and put themselves out there is political suicide (as per past challengers).

On that point, Corbyn is now backpedalling on both re-selection concerns and standing down if he loses. So, whatever the public decides come 2020, Labour may get more Jezza and a cohort of ideologically pure albeit useless new MPs, rubber-stamped in safe seats willing to go ahead with the ruse.

As for 'winning the next election' read 'we don't want to get slaughtered for a generation as a party'.
 
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