*** The Official Elite: Dangerous Thread ***

I think you've missed the point... Dano was repeatedly asking (some might term it baiting?) with comments/questions like:-

What've you've quoted there is my attempt to give my POV, and of course clear up the "misunderstanding" that he believes "I hate/dislike the game".

Am I wrong for trying to give someone a nice considered answer, even to a (strawman) question?


Just twice actually and you didn't answer him the first time. In this instance, yes you were replying to him but I had a look back and found (easily I might add) other times where you have given this same opinion without being prompted. Like I said, as soon as anything negative is said, you do come wading in the thread with above opinion EVERY time. That added with quick comments like below, will indeed make people question why you want to participate in the thread when you seem to dislike the game so very much.

From what I've seen on the official forum, I'm not alone seeing The Engineers as the straw that broke the game's back. ie: I'm quite surprised by the number of other CMDRs who have mentioned this latest effort is what inspired them to stop playing...


Anyway, I am out of this, I didn't want to cause an argument or any bad feelings with you mate. I have no right to tell you how to post or what your views should be, I was just being honest to you about how I felt. :)
 
Just twice actually and you didn't answer him the first time.
As I said... Damned if I do... And damned if I don't...

So I ignore the first "loaded" question... Try to constructively answer a repeat attempt. And I'm at fault...

You'll have to excuse me if I see it as questionable that I'm being held accountable for something. Oh well... :)

ps: No bad feelings here BTW. You're being frank and polite, so what's to have an issue with, even if we disagree about anything/everything.
 
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Neil>
I'm going to ask nicely, it's fine to have an opinion and that's appropriate in this thread.
However, you're no adding value with this repeated set of "debates" on the subject.
Please, just walk away on this one, OK.
 
Just a little comment from someone who has bought the game and has also bought Season 2 and found it a little disappointing...

And I may have read this wrong but... I think Neil is only expressing his displeasure because he wants it to be great. Right now, Elite is a beautiful game - But it could be so much more! It's difficult to play a game like this, that looks so great, plays so great, but fails at things that are so easy to see - It could be amazing, it just disappoints in the most important places. A bit like the England team - So much potential :p

Don't get me wrong here, I haven't read the whole thread - Neil could be trolling - but I feel like I've said a whole of a negatives in this thread, and it's only because I just want the game to be as great as it could be. It feels like it has the platform and position to be amazing, but it's just not there yet. I wait patiently to be wrong, but right now I don't see how Season 2 revive itself.
 
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Long time lurker on this thread and getting annoyed at the constant bickering between Dano and NeilFawcett.

I actually agree with a lot of the things Neil has said and feel that instead of improving the deeper game mechanics, Frontier are just bolting on mini RNG games to cover the promises they have made for the expansions.

I love playing ED and the flight mechanics and graphics are amazing but the depth really is paper thin. If you don't agree with me go play another MMO(RPG) such as Eve Online and compare the depth. Yes it might be unfair to compare it to a game that has been in development for 20 years but they should be striving for some of the depth that it offers and I'd like to see some of the points that Neil raised below pushed to the "priority" list of development but instead we just see these RNG elements as the highlights of the development work.

I'd like to say everyone has the right to voice their opinion and Dano you come across as a bit of a "fanboy" as if anyone says anything negative you are quick to respond, sometimes in my opinon in quite a rude and abrasive fashion. And frankly implying that someone should stop posting and leave the thread doesn't lead to a balanced discussion.

I'd like to see Neil stick around as I value his opinion and he raises valid points which I agree with most of the time.

Perhaps you should both avoid replying to each other or "baiting" each other for a short while?

I've included some of the great posts I've read in recent weeks to show the constructive discussions that have been raised.

RE the development time for crafting and engineers and the like. I'd have preferred to have seen the time instead going into the following sort of stuff:-
1 - Piracy reputation/bases/missions.
2 - Exploration content.
3 - Convoy escort missions and the like.
4 - NPC crew. NPC wingmen for hire (see 3).
5 - Wing missions (see 3 & 4).
6 - Station blockade mechanics.
7 - Missions/tasks piloting a fighter for a Capital ship.
8 - Missions/tasks piloting a fighter for a platform/station (see 6).
9 - Improved community goal/powerplay tasks. (see 3 & 6 & 7 & 8).

Basically beefing up the depth of the game and the variety of the game, rather than just kicking around what's basically already there... ie: I can now have a 15% more powerful beam laser, that heals Wingmen? Great! But I'm still doing the same stuff with it as I've been doing for over 18 months!

I'd prefer to be undertaking a more complex/intersting activity with Wing of friends ideally, even without a 15% more powerful beam laser...

Neil>
Yep, really good list and agreed, I'd have rather had that lot too. Still, it's at least going in the right direction.

Neil,

The crafting I could happily do without. I went to see my 4 engineers, and also have the one who wants meta alloys. At least I know what's needed now, so I can go pull in some more cash.

What appears to be a good thing is the change to AI. Whilst it's being called that, sounds like they've done more than just change the capabilities of NPCs. My understanding is that anarchy systems are now dangerous, whilst patrolled systems are now policed. To me, that's a really good thing. Assuming that plays out, then I see that as a good step forward. I was sick of being interdicted every 5 mins, regardless of what type of system I was in, by some suicidal NPC in a sidewinder, when I'm flying a fully kitted out Python.

Have to say, I love your suggestion on wings. Would love to have elements that a feel a bit like what happened back in the days of Xwing, i.e. guard a convoy over multiple light years.

I'm still confused by the whole mindset of modified weapons. I thought the premise of them was that they wouldn't offer a significant combat advantage in themselves, that would be via the new side effects? I though the whole idea of the modified weapons was to simply allow variety and for them to be tailored to CMDRs liking (eg: 10% more damage at the expense of 15% more energy usage).

And was always concerned about how they would balance all these new affects, when what they already had was still somewhat unbalanced.


So I'll go back to my main point. Why spend all that time developing something that is so questionable, and so niche, when so many other areas are screaming out for development time. Imagine if the Engineers & Crafting's development time had gone into improving all the corner stone professions and their associated mechanics?

Just so so confused and deflated TBH!


BTW - A mate of mine was battling away just trying to do his first crafting of an FSD improvement. He's thus far:-
1) Spent an hour pointing and scanning wakes - Clearly gameplay he didn't enjoyed or found challenging/rewarding.
2) Last night I talked him through finding materials on planetary surfaces - He doesn't enjoy this aspect of the game either, and indeed it was utterly bugged out with two of us in the same instance. If I blew up a rock, it's materials would end up sitting high in the air in his instance. A number of times in fact they just disappeared for both of us.

I believe, he's just given up with it now... So we almost have a Powerplay development all over again. A "cool idea" implemented in such a convoluted uninspired fashion, it risks basically ignored most of the time.


I think I've said before in this thread... I know this sounds harsh, but if I heard a number of the current designers were being replaced, or new ones were at least being brought in, I'd feel there was more hope! We just have IMHO too many questionable design choices being made for this to go on...

Ignoring the argument about time better spent (which I agree with, I see little genuine benefit to the crafting options, just a way to have generated more grind).

Otherwise, seems to be good so far (controversial eh).
The visuals are slightly better, haven't been on a planet much.
I like the re-done combat related AI. I've yet to be interdicted by some pleb in a Viper whilst I'm in my Python. So for example, my last run last night was 172tons of goods over 5 jumps. Was given warning on leaving the spaceport that there was news that I was most probably going to be interdicted, and sure enough, I was, but only the once, and this time by a good NPC in an Anaconda. Makes sense bearing in mind my rank and what I'm flying. Managed to lose the Ana whilst he was trying to interdict me and never had another issue. Brought some genuine "danger" to the game.

From what I've seen, FD have clearly made the game "dangerous", but in a controlled manner. If you wander around in anarchy systems, or assuming that you should be still able to walk all over NPCs, then there's no wonder people are losing ships.

I saw a thread opened by a guy on the forums, complaining about losing his Python. Turned out that he was using a "trade" build Python, i.e. standard hull, no re-enforcements, and was jumped by a pair of good pilots, both in FAS. I've got to ask, why didn't he do the sensible thing and RUN AWAY. A FAS is a tough ship at the best of times. Trying to take on a pair when you're in the wrong ship is just suicide.

Above all, it looks like it simply requires a bit of a re-think of strategies
Personally I took out some little ships first to see what the deal was, so as to minimise potential losses if things really were as bad as made out, and have then worked up from there. No ship losses yet, though I certainly am not going to pick a fight in a loaded transport ship.
Did take out my FAS for a spin last night. This time just to a Nav beacon, again to understand the score. Rather enjoyed it as the enemies were still not a complete pushover.

So my take is:
- Some nice bits have been added, i.e. visuals, traffic control
- Engineers/crafting. Err, so what. I'm guessing I'll do it along the way, but it's not that important to me.
- Missions. I like the updated mission board. Big improvement from my perspective and they "feel" better, just more immersive
- Danger. I like the updated danger factor. Before it was fairly straightforward to just meander around "space truckin". The AI update genuinely adds that danger back in and removes the complacency that previously existed, as you knew that most interdictions were from ships that you knew weren't a genuine threat.
This I see as being the point most complained about, i.e. by players who simply can't adapt, but hey, that's me being controversial.
 
Made it back to the bubble last night and I was super disappointed in the nerf to exploration data that had occured in the months I had been out.

Sold about 100 pages of data (approx 5000 jumps) with detailed scans of Earths and Waters and Ammonia worlds.

Made about 10mil and only proceeded for trailblazer to pathfinder (about a rank and a bit).

Conversely pre-nerf I nipped to VY Canis Majoris and back with 0 world scans and 1 sun scan. Made about 4 mil and went from 0 > Trailblazer.

Do not recommend :(
 
Made it back to the bubble last night and I was super disappointed in the nerf to exploration data that had occured in the months I had been out.

Sold about 100 pages of data (approx 5000 jumps) with detailed scans of Earths and Waters and Ammonia worlds.

Made about 10mil and only proceeded for trailblazer to pathfinder (about a rank and a bit).

Conversely pre-nerf I nipped to VY Canis Majoris and back with 0 world scans and 1 sun scan. Made about 4 mil and went from 0 > Trailblazer.

Do not recommend :(

That's not right at all file a bug report. :eek:

After 5000 systems your should have at least netted 100+million.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/141785-HOLO-ICONS-CHART-Exploration-values

Check above link out, nothing has changed at all in exploration values.

Deffo a bug! ;)
 
Just a little comment from someone who has bought the game and has also bought Season 2 and found it a little disappointing...

And I may have read this wrong but... I think Neil is only expressing his displeasure because he wants it to be great. Right now, Elite is a beautiful game - But it could be so much more! It's difficult to play a game like this, that looks so great, plays so great, but fails at things that are so easy to see - It could be amazing, it just disappoints in the most important places. A bit like the England team - So much potential :p

Don't get me wrong here, I haven't read the whole thread - Neil could be trolling - but I feel like I've said a whole of a negatives in this thread, and it's only because I just want the game to be as great as it could be. It feels like it has the platform and position to be amazing, but it's just not there yet. I wait patiently to be wrong, but right now I don't see how Season 2 revive itself.

Pretty much this ^^^ Neil has done nothing wrong whatsoever...unfortunately some people have a habit of jumping down other's throats if an opinion is given which is critical of some gameplay mechanics of Elite.

Heck even Obsidianant (pretty much official Elite youtube promoter/spokesperson) has serious concerns about parts of season 2. Is he misguided and incorrect too?

 
Pretty much this ^^^ Neil has done nothing wrong whatsoever...unfortunately some people have a habit of jumping down other's throats if an opinion is given which is critical of some gameplay mechanics of Elite.

Heck even Obsidianant (pretty much official Elite youtube promoter/spokesperson) has serious concerns about parts of season 2. Is he misguided and incorrect too?


Neither you or Neil are wrong in the criticisms raised regarding the rollout content by FD. I said as much myself a few pages back. I'd personally liked to have seen different content "prioritised". Just to re-iterate:
- Elite has a host of different things that "could" be improved/enhanced/introduced
- Whilst we (me included) would have preferred improved Wings, associated missions, convoys, 1st person mode etc, let's assume that someone really wanted crafting. I think we're talking less about an FD fail, more about FD not prioritising what we want. My guess is that FD have a huge hit list of stuff to be done.


The slightly unfortunate point is that the discussion rather degenerated into a bickering session, which doesn't really help anyone.

So, on a more positive note, how's everyone else getting on?
 
Pretty much this ^^^ Neil has done nothing wrong whatsoever...unfortunately some people have a habit of jumping down other's throats if an opinion is given which is critical of some gameplay mechanics of Elite.

Heck even Obsidianant (pretty much official Elite youtube promoter/spokesperson) has serious concerns about parts of season 2. Is he misguided and incorrect too?

If you were insinuating me in that statement, I never once said he had done anything wrong or that his views were incorrect. I just found his contribution to the thread was mostly when anything negative was being talked about and that he posts the SAME argument/points every time. This of course is well within his right, just as it is within our right to point it out :) I tried to be polite as possible, but wanted to let him know that some of us found it annoying. :) :) :)
 
I have to say that they really need to add new mechanics, rather than new goals that involve doing more of the same stuff. I used to have a lot of fun with my friends flying in a wing, but really there wasn't much we could do together. I'd love to see some missions for wings. Or even subterranean bases where you had to fly through caves to get there.

There are loads of cool things you could do with elite, but they really did fall far short with engineers. The update for the base game was better imo with the introduction of new huge weapons and AI behaviour, new mission structures and delivery.
 
Neither you or Neil are wrong in the criticisms raised regarding the rollout content by FD. I said as much myself a few pages back. I'd personally liked to have seen different content "prioritised". Just to re-iterate:
- Elite has a host of different things that "could" be improved/enhanced/introduced
- Whilst we (me included) would have preferred improved Wings, associated missions, convoys, 1st person mode etc, let's assume that someone really wanted crafting. I think we're talking less about an FD fail, more about FD not prioritising what we want. My guess is that FD have a huge hit list of stuff to be done.


The slightly unfortunate point is that the discussion rather degenerated into a bickering session, which doesn't really help anyone.

So, on a more positive note, how's everyone else getting on?
There's always a huge wishlist, but there's also many constraints on what can be done well in a reasonable time which affects what gets prioritised. Remember that we're not a large team and need to juggle season 2 content with season 3 and beyond, bugfixes, and the less noticeable stuff (from the player's point of view) like training new staff, improving dev tools and workflow, server maintenance and so on.

Personally, on the whole I'm enjoying 2.1 - I'm not entirely sold on loot and crafting as it feels a bit MMO-fetch-questy for my liking, but the AI improvements make combat much more challenging, missions and USS are much more streamlined, and I'm glad to see the smaller more agile ships viable again as they are so much fun to fly.

I have to say that they really need to add new mechanics, rather than new goals that involve doing more of the same stuff. I used to have a lot of fun with my friends flying in a wing, but really there wasn't much we could do together. I'd love to see some missions for wings. Or even subterranean bases where you had to fly through caves to get there.

There are loads of cool things you could do with elite, but they really did fall far short with engineers. The update for the base game was better imo with the introduction of new huge weapons and AI behaviour, new mission structures and delivery.
Wings is one of my favourite features and I agree there's so much more that could be done with it - improvements are on the cards, but I couldn't say what or when. I love the idea of Descent-style enclosed areas, but it's a hugely complex problem to solve which I suspect won't be viable for some time.
 
Its a ****.

Lifetime member and every update its getting worse not better.

Its utterly frustrating its as if the DEVs are playing a completely different game to everyone else.

Uninstalled now maybe in a couple of years but by then it will have gone and the servers switched off.
 
Crowze>
Interesting of you to confirm that you're a member of FD.
Question for you. In your opinion, are we the playerbase influencing the priority list, e.g. our requests for better wings, convoys and similar?
 
Crowze>
Interesting of you to confirm that you're a member of FD.
Question for you. In your opinion, are we the playerbase influencing the priority list, e.g. our requests for better wings, convoys and similar?
I did confirm it in this thread many months ago, but I generally try to keep my head out of the firing line :).

I'm a fair way removed from the design process and not really in a good position to answer that, so take this with a big pinch of salt. Player requests are a factor for sure, but we also want the upcoming patches to be more cohesive and higher quality so more weight will be placed on which features compliment each other and what can be done right in the time available. I'd guess that any improvements to wings, for example, would come in with multi-crew as they both add to co-op play. There are exceptions - for example the community made it clear that they wanted more control over the crafting process so Engineer favours were bumped up the list, but that was helped by it being relatively simple to implement.
 
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