***The Official Guitar Thread***

NickK said:
So I've been finding it hard to get my head around the fundamentals
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I have never been a fast learner... every bit of information I ever, temporarily, retained has had to be hammered in, one repetitive example at a time. And music theory is a long term failing of mine. I always start well, trying to grasp a few basics, a few scales, a few "this key contains these chords... probably" examples, and then I'm suddenly flung off a knowledge cliff, scrabbling for diminished fifths and pentatonic doodah, and scattering all the things I thought I understood to the wind. It's like a foreign language! And yet... I mean, it's only 12 notes, right? Or half-notes or whatever. But... how can understanding something as beautiful as music, even a two chord song, get so complicated, so quickly???

Mind you 12 factorial is... what... 12x11x10x... a lot of combinations. But not all of them pretty, so... :eek: :D

It feels like a completely alien world when I start venturing into theory and in-depth understanding. I guess this is how all knowledge starts, and when you're a kid, you don't realise just how much you don't know... just how long the slog to understanding can be. Plus the whole having to go to school thing and have knowledge hammered into you, one lesson at a time. As adults it's far too easy to just earn another song instead, because it's fun, not learn another scale or mode or apparently totally disconnected bit of musical theory which will somehow be the key to a revelation.

I like Beato, but from what I've watched of his YouTube theory, I am not ready for Beato... and probably never will be! But I do get the whole "if I spend a notable chunk of money, it will force me to take this seriously!" concept. For now though, I'll go back to worshipping the circle of fifths like some pagan at Stonehenge, not really understanding what he's looking at, but enjoying the sunrise through the stones. :D
 
One More Solo said:
I haven’t used Beato’s guides but my impression is they’re not ideal for the beginner theory learner. Is there any particular reason you’ve opted for them?
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Andrew_McP said:
It feels like a completely alien world when I start venturing into theory and in-depth understanding. I guess this is how all knowledge starts, and when you're a kid, you don't realise just how much you don't know... just how long the slog to understanding can be. Plus the whole having to go to school thing and have knowledge hammered into you, one lesson at a time. As adults it's far too easy to just earn another song instead, because it's fun, not learn another scale or mode or apparently totally disconnected bit of musical theory which will somehow be the key to a revelation.

I like Beato, but from what I've watched of his YouTube theory, I am not ready for Beato... and probably never will be! But I do get the whole "if I spend a notable chunk of money, it will force me to take this seriously!" concept. For now though, I'll go back to worshipping the circle of fifths like some pagan at Stonehenge, not really understanding what he's looking at, but enjoying the sunrise through the stones. :D
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I decided on Beato simply as an ex-professor I know he has a good rubber stamp of knowing what he is talking about. Wooton is another clear example if understanding and spending time educating. I suppose I was expected a little bit of a ramp, but as you and others pre-warn it's quite steep. I feel once you're past that initial step that you will learn more in Beato's set of explorations.

I did try with BBC's Bitesize GCSE music theory but it seems to suffer the same issues of teaching by saying the same language with little focus on saying the approach. It's reference and reminding rather than a course now I look back at it.

What I do like is Beato's ability switch between a guitar and keyboard where needed. Visually it appears easier to draw a picture on a keyboard but Beato does focus on guitar, as Wooton does Bass (should I say is bass?!).

I still like Wooton's comment -- Music Theory is like a toolbox you have in your car trunk, you only pull it out when you got a problem -- I think I like that. His point about ignoring the scales and going for notes that sound good is also a good point here.. the toolbox isn't something to be followed religiously but may throw up suggestions.

I'm not trying to get to orchestral standards, just to understand and explore different things. I may chose a couple of songs an try analysing but I noodle and I could use that theory toolbox out of the trunk.. and I don't want to be that Jazz-obsessed guitarist that hears a cat walking across a keyboard as the best example of <insert rigorous abuse of music theory here>.. However if it makes me play less for more.. I'll take that too :)
 
I think improvising and composing is more important than music theory, at first.

I find it hard to be creative. I had a lesson from Paul Gilbert once and his top tips were play slower and use less notes :o
 
NickK said:
Interesting.

I just retried the SLO - and yes you can get a clean out of it without having breakup. The Fortin seems incapable of that.

Will try the abasi too.

So after playing:
1. the Fortin is an out-and-out distortion amp to the point that it doesn't really have a clean.
2. the SLO100 seems to have a clean, wide range but can't manage the clarity of the Fortin in heavy distortion, giving a flabby/convoluted distortion when playing chords.
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Something doesn't sound right to me, signal to the interface is too hot or something like that... but I'm no expert

And ahh, theory... My only bit of advice would be don't overthink it and don't over-do it, it's not a chart or a collection of information you learn and then apply to the instrument and it makes you play good, it's just the tools to explain why certain musical ideas create the impressions they do. If you focus on it too much as a set of rules it actually stifles your creativity because you feel like you can't deviate from those rules, you think about theory too much and you stop listening to the sounds you're making. It's not "bad" as such but it's better dipped into as an explainer of other pieces that you learn in a more natural way imo

For instance how about study something like the well known RHCP Californication live intros + solos which Flea + John do - learn the song itself and the chords first if you don't know it already, then find a bunch of clips of them playing it live and just try to learn bits of it (by ear). Eventually you can see how the things they do fit into certain scales and patterns and things and then if you like you can also look up some theory to understand a bit more about why it works so well. But at the same time, record or find a backing track and have a go at applying what you've picked up from the live versions you learned bits of. Come up with your own intro + solo inspired by, but different to, the real ones... I went with Californication because the parts John uses are typically quite simple - from a technical perspective you don't need that great chops really for the vast majority of the versions he does, but its also not about memorizing a specific mode or scale it's about deliberate note choice and phrasing, understanding how what you play sits over the (pretty simple) chords etc.
 
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Fretboard Logic books are good for ideas on what works over different chords, what scales work etc, but they don't really teach theory....
If you can work through the music theory.net lessons there's not much you won't know...or just stop at the point you've learned what you want!
And yes if you just try to apply theory to playing it'll just sound like scales and arpeggios, even using sequences etc will sound robotic when overdone....so yeah theory is a way to explain things rather than how to play
 
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Andrew_McP said:
For the last 14 months I had increasingly bad -- and limiting in non-guitar stuff -- left shoulder troubles. I've been through the full range of YouTube and Google diagnoses, but (eventually!) I think I've narrowed it down to practicing lazily while sat on the sofa... so my arm's spent much of the last five years in "waving to someone" formation, twisted up almost vertically against the back of the sofa. I always used to play sat forward in my office chair, or on the edge of the sofa.

Nowadays I tend to stand and play in front of my mic stand, even when it's not plugged on, because I still find the whole playing/singing into a fixed mic distracting, and need to practice. But as a result, I've noticed my shoulder slowly getting better. Nothing else has changed, I'm just much, much more aware of that shoulder when I do sit on the sofa for lazy practice. Any soreness, I stop.
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Every time a beginner asks me for a tip, I tell them to get their posture right. That's always the first thing I say.

Sit in a decent chair, guitar on left thigh* and left foot raised on a box about four to six inches (or footstool, if you want to splash out).

It makes playing easier, and reduces back strain and shoulder issues.

*assuming you're a righty
 
NickK said:
Interesting.. given my little escapade over the weekend I can understand a bit of this.
youtu.be

Brad Mehldau: The Greatest Jazz Pianist of Our Generation

Brad Mehldau stands as a beacon of innovation in the jazz world, intertwining the richness of classical music with the spontaneity of jazz to create a sound ...
youtu.be youtu.be
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that's a long video!...skipping through it landed near this part...Jurrasic Park theme (timestamped) .... (11min 35 secs timestamps don't appear to be working!)
 
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Just listening more to the Beato interactive book - there's a lot in specifically exploring modes and the scales, including example compositions with visual representations of the composition to convey the feeling of the pieces. Chapter 23 talks about sound of minor and modal interchange.. think taking the circle of fifths and hitting modes with it.. not minor scale but sounds... so it's getting into exploring the context but expressing in a completely different way (ie not using a minor scale directly). So you can see in 23 chapters it's got a vertical ramp at the start gets really into a large amount of inspiration around modes and scales quickly.
I would say the book is definitely intermediate upwards, I can see how composing your own.. then coming to it and taking some thought and replying against the ideas to come up with new ones could also be useful.
 
Just been doing some calculations and LTSpice simulations of the 2W amp. It looks like I can do this partly by reusing my headphone amp power supply which should allow me to get the thing up and running with a lower cost then add in a bespoke power supply at a later date.

The key to the amp is that instead of using the standard Rob Robinette power supply, I'm using something closer to the real Marshall JCM800 so that I get the power to the preamp at the same voltage. It's easier to drop voltage than to increase it. The reason it's awkward is that the power section uses smaller tubes (EF80s) which means the maximum voltage they can take is lower. This causes issues in the usual way tube power supplies are laid out, typically the highest voltage (the power tubes) are the first in the chain and the lowest voltage (with the most filtering) is the pre-amp tube.
Rob uses a 270Vrms transformer (or 381Vpeak) but that doesn't leave much as the B4 voltage needs to be 349V. So in reality I could use a 300Vrms transformer (300*1.414=424Vpeak) depending on the power draw needed. The issue is I need a choke in if I was to stay true to the design of the Robinette and Marshall design.

Eitherway I can therefore use the hefty chassis and transformer box I've got made up which reduces the cost (I will instead use turret boards to make the a rough circuit board).

The danger is the F+T caps are 500Vdc max and if unloaded the power supply would sit at 490V which is not good. This is the failure mode if the tubes fail or primary output transform shorts for example. So I'm thinking ahead (and adding a nice fuse). However it will allow me to get to a stage of building the amp itself then tailoring the power so I have a single power transformer. I could use a 600V WIMA MKP4 but the low ESR means less sag - which is what gives the amp its character.

The reality is you don't know until you've physically got the thing setup in front of you. All the tubes are different from the model and so too are the transformers etc but the simulation will get you in the ball park.
 
potatolord said:
Every time a beginner asks me for a tip, I tell them to get their posture right. That's always the first thing I say.

Sit in a decent chair, guitar on left thigh* and left foot raised on a box about four to six inches (or footstool, if you want to splash out).

It makes playing easier, and reduces back strain and shoulder issues.

*assuming you're a righty
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Now this is a tricky one, yes it is easier to play in a classical pose but realistically it’s not how most people play guitar these days I don’t think I know anyone who sits like that with an electric guitar or big old dreadnaught acoustic. The only time I sit in the ‘correct’ pose is if I’m trying to learn something tricky on the classical side and even then once I’ve cracked it I will tend to move to playing it in the modern style with the guitar on my right knee.
 
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after checking I only have one 117V dual secondary for the amp.. instead I’ve found a 340V dual secondary that could work. It also supports 230 and 240V primary which will cope with my 253V mains voltage. 137VA transformer :) just for kicks and giggles putting those 340V in series gives a heart stopping output of over 1000Vdc.. not something I am going todo.. 640V is scary enough (the cost of componets goes way up too).
This means I can run one 340vrms (427Vdc!) for the pre tubes and one for the power tubes. This - with some resistors is a little more flexible and allows the filtering of more ripple.
Simulations give a good setup. The amp would then have more than enough power to add more tubes to make a 5 stage amp (marshals have a 3 stage preamp).
It means I can also drive tube pedal fx loop etc etc.

I did see a transformer with the right output to use a EZ81 rectifier tube but the down side is it’s high voltage out was 300V which means less mains filtering. Ao I will stick with solid state rectification.

Starting to look forward to this build. It should prove quite flexible to tweek.

Next up is sorting out the reactive speaker load design. That will simulate a speaker but have no sound.
 
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