***The Official Home Recording Studio Thread***
- Thread starter easyrider
- Start date
Soldato
I do indeed.
Soldato
Just bought the CLA signature series for £38
bargaintastic
£6.35 per plugin...
@Merlin5 The Tbone Ribbon MICS as OH with the soundtoys Sie-Q and the CLA Drums plugin sounds amazing.
I'll post a sound cloud shortly.
Nice one. I'm looking forward to trying out the demo myself. Only criticism I've seen about the drum plugin and all the CLA plugins is there's only bass and treble controls and no mid range EQ. The guy who presents videos under the title of home recording made easy says that he likes the CLA but inserts the studio one Pro EQ plugin to adjust mid range mostly for overheads to get rid of snare boxiness. Have you found no mid range control to be an issue?
CLA has already set the EQ curve he wants with plugin in zero.There is already some serious stuff going on under the hood in the chain...at default settings.
With it it just in the channel it sounds amazing...
http://audiogeekzine.com/2010/11/waves-cla-signature-collection-signal-chain-diagrams/
I recorded an acoustic guitar, had a plate reverb, compressor, EQ plugin on the channel and was really pleased with the sound I was getting...
Put the CLA guitar plugin on it , disabled the plugins I put on it and the sound blew my attempt away...it sounded like a record!
The challenge for me is to insert the CLA plugins and recreate the sound with my own overtime to improve my sound engineer and mixing skills.
The bass one was amazing aswell..I like to work fast if I'm writing etc...and to be able to record an acoustic track , a vocal and bass...bang CLA plugin on quick tweak to taste and getting something that's good as a Record very quickly is a revelation!
"Having spent quite a while crafting what I thought was a pretty good stereo acoustic guitar sound using other plug‑ins, I thought I'd test CLA Unplugged by seeing if it could match my own efforts. I killed the other plug‑ins, inserted CLA Unplugged, chose the first preset with 'acoustic' in the title... and wept bitter tears, because not only did it match the plug‑in chain I had laboriously assembled myself, it sounded miles better. I suppose that's why people pay Chris Lord‑Alge a lot of money to mix their records."
"In practice, I found myself really liking this plug‑in on overheads — I've never usually had good results from using lots of reverb and compression in this context, but a couple of fader moves in CLA Drums produced a really punchy, hard‑hitting sound that barely needed the addition of close mics."
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/waves-cla-artist-signature-collection
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Soldato
easyrider, how do you feel about Mixbus now since you can get fast and possibly better results using just the CLA plugins inside any DAW?
Mixbus has a sound of its own firstly...plus the mixer, channel compression, channel EQ plus easy mixbus routing is great.
Mixbus also makes me learn things about audio...
Learning from the sound achieved from the CLA plugins and doing it myself will be invaluable learning curve for me.
Plus ( it really does)
Mixbus Sounds Better
Other DAWs are designed by companies with experience in computer sound, but no pedigree in world-class recording facilities. The Mixbus DSP mixer is designed by Harrison specifically for its great-sounding EQ, filters, dynamics, and bus summing. If you find a music recording from the golden age of albums - the 70s and 80s - that has stood the test of time, it is likely that a Harrison console was used during the production. Mixbus invites you to produce recordings that will stand with the very best.
http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus.html
Soldato
It's important (I think) to try not to rely on CLA catch all type plugins too much. It won't work on everything (no plugin does).
These plugins are essentially a collection of very broad strokes. You have "bass" and "treble" for instance and that's it for eq (I'm guessing it's just low and high shelf). In almost all cases you'll need more than that to achieve the sound you want. Try not to think of it as a channel strip but as a collection of predefined effects.
But yea, what easyrider said, use it, try and figure out what it does and recreate it for yourself. That's not to say don't use the plugin as intended it's just a good way of learning!
These plugins are essentially a collection of very broad strokes. You have "bass" and "treble" for instance and that's it for eq (I'm guessing it's just low and high shelf). In almost all cases you'll need more than that to achieve the sound you want. Try not to think of it as a channel strip but as a collection of predefined effects.
But yea, what easyrider said, use it, try and figure out what it does and recreate it for yourself. That's not to say don't use the plugin as intended it's just a good way of learning!
I'm still learning the EQ and compression on Mixbus channels just like using a real console. My goal is to get to the point were I can get the sound I want with MIXBUS Channel EQ, a Reverb Plug and a Compressor.
The CLA stuff being such a good deal is a learning tool for me...My OCD wont be satisfied until I can get that sound with my MIXBUS console, Eq and compression and Reverb. Because thats all CLA is using mostly in the plugs themselves.
Red - Channel EQ
Green- Sends
Yellow- Channel Compression
Grey- Master EQ
White- Tape Saturation
Soldato
I really like the look of mixbus (and consoles in general) but it seems like so much screen real estate is used with all the nobs. It is really nice having a full channel strip by default on each channel though.
With a 21:9 superwide at 2k its a great...Actual screenshot of mine
and just flip between mixer and editor on my faderport..
Stock photo editor
Soldato
Well guys, I just recorded a full song in Studio One but unfortunately Studio One Artist doesn't accept 3rd party plugins like CLA drums, without first buying a plugin add on from Presonus. Only Studio One Professional allows plugins by default.
So I decided to download Reaper. I was able to import CLA Drums into it. Reaper as a DAW is pretty cool and seems fairly easy to use, I like it. But it's only a 60 day trial and I don't want to buy it just to use CLA which I'd also have to buy. Anyway, I've never used stems before but I imported my Studio One stems into Reaper and just mixed my drums in that. I'm pretty impressed with CLA Drums, but yeah, I can see it's limitations.
It's brilliant for the bass drum though, I'm able to get it to punch through much better than I could in Studio One. I took a while though tweaking everything but I think I ended up with a pretty balanced mix. Fair bit of compression, gate and some reverb. I used a trial of Premiere Pro CC to sync and edit my video and the audio. Let me know what you think. Note the sleeping bag on the radiator for a bit more room deadening.
Might be just my laptop but if it skips for you in 1080p, 720p works fine.
So I decided to download Reaper. I was able to import CLA Drums into it. Reaper as a DAW is pretty cool and seems fairly easy to use, I like it. But it's only a 60 day trial and I don't want to buy it just to use CLA which I'd also have to buy. Anyway, I've never used stems before but I imported my Studio One stems into Reaper and just mixed my drums in that. I'm pretty impressed with CLA Drums, but yeah, I can see it's limitations.
It's brilliant for the bass drum though, I'm able to get it to punch through much better than I could in Studio One. I took a while though tweaking everything but I think I ended up with a pretty balanced mix. Fair bit of compression, gate and some reverb. I used a trial of Premiere Pro CC to sync and edit my video and the audio. Let me know what you think. Note the sleeping bag on the radiator for a bit more room deadening.
Might be just my laptop but if it skips for you in 1080p, 720p works fine.
Soldato
Awesome job, bud. Sounds really good!
Yep sounds great...@ Merlin5 please come to my studio and track some drums with me!!!!!
I have some guitars ideas I want to record with a good drummer simultaneously. I'll pay for your train ticket!
Soldato
Thanks very much guys! I was honestly expecting you to say that the mix wasn't very good, so I'm very pleased you like it. I've since started remixing a drier version of it in Studio One and bringing out more presence, crispness and detail. I'm enjoying the process of proper mixing, using a combo of fat channel, pro eq and mixverb, with some presets and some manual tweaking.
Unbelievable how much kit leakage I'm getting when I solo the toms, hi-hat or even kick drum. I used a preset on the kick drum with fat channel which gates it nicely. But very hard to remove spillage from the hi-hat, or spillage from the rack toms without gating it so much that I lose most of the toms and hi-hat.
Do you guys ever use sidechain compression? I think I understand how to do it. It's been recommended to me to try it to give more presence to the drums. I'd link to the backing track which would be ever so slightly compressed/ducked each time I hit the kic, snare or toms. I guess I'd have to be careful how much compression the song gets or it might sound weird.
easyrider, I'm honoured!
Would like to do that though not sure when I'll be able to pop down, but yeah, soon!
Unbelievable how much kit leakage I'm getting when I solo the toms, hi-hat or even kick drum. I used a preset on the kick drum with fat channel which gates it nicely. But very hard to remove spillage from the hi-hat, or spillage from the rack toms without gating it so much that I lose most of the toms and hi-hat.
Do you guys ever use sidechain compression? I think I understand how to do it. It's been recommended to me to try it to give more presence to the drums. I'd link to the backing track which would be ever so slightly compressed/ducked each time I hit the kic, snare or toms. I guess I'd have to be careful how much compression the song gets or it might sound weird.
easyrider, I'm honoured!
Would like to do that though not sure when I'll be able to pop down, but yeah, soon!
Soldato
Yea, you can't really get rid of bleed completely, you just have to make it as manageable as possible. It makes big boost difficult because you end up with a load of cymbal and if you're gating it too aggressively it just sounds weird. Although I saw how CLA gates his snare. He basically cuts everything so all you hear is a small attack then rebuilds the snare with verb etc. He also uses samples though which helps.
Rarely use side chain because I've never really needed to. Common use for side chain is to side chain the kick into the bass to duck the bass out slightly to give more room for the kick. I have my kicks loud anyway so haven't really used it for that. I'd say it's used more commonly for fixing things (unless it's for effect). I'm not sure I'd use it on a backing track because you may get pumping, best way to find out is to try though.
Rarely use side chain because I've never really needed to. Common use for side chain is to side chain the kick into the bass to duck the bass out slightly to give more room for the kick. I have my kicks loud anyway so haven't really used it for that. I'd say it's used more commonly for fixing things (unless it's for effect). I'm not sure I'd use it on a backing track because you may get pumping, best way to find out is to try though.
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Soldato
With toms, I typically skim along the track and cut clips to the transients of the hits, then cut the end of the strike and fade it out. Manual gating if you will. This way you can have them fairly high in the mix without then having the spill bleeding all over the track. Gates for me never really sound right, and often you miss the subtle hits which a drummer might add which a gate isn't clever enough to let through. Time consuming? Yes. Worth it? Every time.
Hi hat bleed is typically from the snare. You can minimise this by careful mic placement (if using a cardioid SDC, put the null point pointing toward the snare) or even better use the old inverse square law and move the hat further away from the snare. Not every drummer is best pleased about this though... Finally, the hat mic is generally off or very near off in 90% of the mixes I do because the overheads generally pick it up perfectly clearly. Unless there's a specific hat section in the song - in which case I'll do what I do with the toms, cut out that section and only use the close mic for that.
Hi hat bleed is typically from the snare. You can minimise this by careful mic placement (if using a cardioid SDC, put the null point pointing toward the snare) or even better use the old inverse square law and move the hat further away from the snare. Not every drummer is best pleased about this though... Finally, the hat mic is generally off or very near off in 90% of the mixes I do because the overheads generally pick it up perfectly clearly. Unless there's a specific hat section in the song - in which case I'll do what I do with the toms, cut out that section and only use the close mic for that.
Soldato
Thanks Lowe. Yeah my hi-hat mic is a pencil condenser placed fairly far away from the snare. But yeah, it would make more sense to have the capsule face away from the snare.
I think you're right ShortWarning, that sidechaining to the backing track would make the song pump too much.
I'm almost finished a great remix I'll upload later for your comparison once I've sorted the bass drum. It's much more airy and '3D' as I'm using more overhead in the mix, much less reverb and have generally widened the panning.
I've now got a punchier sound from the kick using a fair bit of compression, but I'm having real trouble in Studio One getting it to cut through without serious visual clipping. It doesn't really sound like it's clipping, and the master fader isn't clipping, so I'm not sure if I should be that bothered. But the bass drum fader is set at unity and peaking in the red to almost max. Same with the meters in the EQ and compressor plugins. But bringing it down where it doesn't clip, it's buried in the mix. I know it's my EQing and compressor doing this. But that's the only way I seem to be able to achieve the sound I like. Hmm, maybe I could try bringing everything down and increase the master fader.
I think you're right ShortWarning, that sidechaining to the backing track would make the song pump too much.
I'm almost finished a great remix I'll upload later for your comparison once I've sorted the bass drum. It's much more airy and '3D' as I'm using more overhead in the mix, much less reverb and have generally widened the panning.
I've now got a punchier sound from the kick using a fair bit of compression, but I'm having real trouble in Studio One getting it to cut through without serious visual clipping. It doesn't really sound like it's clipping, and the master fader isn't clipping, so I'm not sure if I should be that bothered. But the bass drum fader is set at unity and peaking in the red to almost max. Same with the meters in the EQ and compressor plugins. But bringing it down where it doesn't clip, it's buried in the mix. I know it's my EQing and compressor doing this. But that's the only way I seem to be able to achieve the sound I like. Hmm, maybe I could try bringing everything down and increase the master fader.
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Soldato
Ideally you don't want anything to clip (unless you're using a soft clipper or something but even then it shouldn't be clipping your meter). You probably have your makeup gain too high in the compressor your you're boosting some frequencies without lowering the output in your eq.
If you're having to clip the kick to get it to cut through then it means something is not quite right with it. You can either turn everything else down (nothing wrong with this solution) or just keep at the eqing/compressing until it sounds right. Edit - You can ignore this last paragraph really, it's only really applicable if you're clipping the master bus.
If you're having to clip the kick to get it to cut through then it means something is not quite right with it. You can either turn everything else down (nothing wrong with this solution) or just keep at the eqing/compressing until it sounds right. Edit - You can ignore this last paragraph really, it's only really applicable if you're clipping the master bus.
Merlin5 you certainly need to turn everything else down. Up your monitoring if everything gets too quiet. If you've tracked correctly (avg -18dbfs / peaks about -6dbfs) then you'll have plenty of headroom. There's no reason to be clipping anything while mixing.
Another tip is leave your master fader at unity (0db) as much as you can. It's a bad habit to be controlling overall volume via the master fader - it messes with consistency and stops you learning to gauge volumes correctly. The master fader at the same level across songs gives you a consistent level to mix to.
No rules though as they say
Another tip is leave your master fader at unity (0db) as much as you can. It's a bad habit to be controlling overall volume via the master fader - it messes with consistency and stops you learning to gauge volumes correctly. The master fader at the same level across songs gives you a consistent level to mix to.
No rules though as they say
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