Caporegime
Absolutely.
Poll: The official I voted/election results thread
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Absolutely.
Regardless of what party you're standing for, I have a lot of respect for anyone who runs for public office, simply because you're prepared to actually stand up for what you believe and try to do something about it, which is infinitely more than the vast majority of moaning whingers in this country do.
Soldato
I would've stood but I was too busy trying to complete all the heist missions in GTA V single player.
I'm genuinely thinking about standing as a UKIP councillor in the next local elections in a couple of years, not sure if i will but seriously considering it
Soldato
Caporegime
How many times has Farage failed to win a seat now? Is it 5? 6? 7...?
Man of Honour
For your own party?
I have to say I do feel sorry for the LibDems and what they've experienced is yet another effect of our fundamentally flawed system.
They've obviously been punished heavily for their perceived "sell out" in forming a coalition with the Conservatives but what exactly where they supposed to do?
They received so much criticism from their supporters for back-tracking on promises such as tuition fees but these people seem to be forgetting one simple fact - they didn't win! They came third in the 2010 election and were in the position of making a simple choice - do we form a coalition with one of the two main parties, try to influence them and fight for some of our principles whilst accepting we'll have to sacrifice others, or refuse to form such a coalition and fight on a vote-by-vote basis in parliament?
Presumably those who criticised them so much would rather they'd stick to their principles and done the latter yet the reality is they'd have had very little influence and would quite possibly have achieved far less than they did.
The thing is, with our flawed FPTP system, the 2010 result was the best the LibDems were ever likely to achieve. They were never going to win power outright so the 2010 result gave them the best chance they'd ever have of actually having some serious influence in government. Of course they had to take it, even if it meant sacrificing some things. It's this to which Clegg refers when he talks of "doing the right thing for the country if not the party" and I agree with him.
But what does this tell us about our electoral system and the future? The LibDems won't recover for quite a while now and, depending on what the Conservatives do about things like immigration and Europe over the next five years, it's quite conceivable than UKIP could find themselves in a similar situation come 2020 and with a similar choice of whether to form a coalition with the Tories or not. Should this come to pass I'd expect them to take the same choice and then suffer the same fate come 2025.
Is this all we can ever hope for? That any party other than Labour or the Conservatives is consigned to aspiring solely to gain enough seats to form a coalition with one of the main parties for which they'll sacrifice everything come the next election? Certainly seems that way to me.
This was the seventh general election in which I've voted. Whilst I'm a Tory and thus happy with the result, I can still see that the system is deeply flawed. That the SNP can win 56 times as many seats as UKIP with only 38% of the votes is outrageous.
I've seen many comments actually praising our FPTP system for keeping UKIP at bay but this really isn't the attitude to have. Regardless of the parties involved, the system needs to be fair. Whilst many despise UKIP and what they stand for, the fact remains that they received over 12% of all votes cast and their representation in parliament should reflect that.
We need change badly but I really don't see how it's ever going to happen.
They've obviously been punished heavily for their perceived "sell out" in forming a coalition with the Conservatives but what exactly where they supposed to do?
They received so much criticism from their supporters for back-tracking on promises such as tuition fees but these people seem to be forgetting one simple fact - they didn't win! They came third in the 2010 election and were in the position of making a simple choice - do we form a coalition with one of the two main parties, try to influence them and fight for some of our principles whilst accepting we'll have to sacrifice others, or refuse to form such a coalition and fight on a vote-by-vote basis in parliament?
Presumably those who criticised them so much would rather they'd stick to their principles and done the latter yet the reality is they'd have had very little influence and would quite possibly have achieved far less than they did.
The thing is, with our flawed FPTP system, the 2010 result was the best the LibDems were ever likely to achieve. They were never going to win power outright so the 2010 result gave them the best chance they'd ever have of actually having some serious influence in government. Of course they had to take it, even if it meant sacrificing some things. It's this to which Clegg refers when he talks of "doing the right thing for the country if not the party" and I agree with him.
But what does this tell us about our electoral system and the future? The LibDems won't recover for quite a while now and, depending on what the Conservatives do about things like immigration and Europe over the next five years, it's quite conceivable than UKIP could find themselves in a similar situation come 2020 and with a similar choice of whether to form a coalition with the Tories or not. Should this come to pass I'd expect them to take the same choice and then suffer the same fate come 2025.
Is this all we can ever hope for? That any party other than Labour or the Conservatives is consigned to aspiring solely to gain enough seats to form a coalition with one of the main parties for which they'll sacrifice everything come the next election? Certainly seems that way to me.
This was the seventh general election in which I've voted. Whilst I'm a Tory and thus happy with the result, I can still see that the system is deeply flawed. That the SNP can win 56 times as many seats as UKIP with only 38% of the votes is outrageous.
I've seen many comments actually praising our FPTP system for keeping UKIP at bay but this really isn't the attitude to have. Regardless of the parties involved, the system needs to be fair. Whilst many despise UKIP and what they stand for, the fact remains that they received over 12% of all votes cast and their representation in parliament should reflect that.
We need change badly but I really don't see how it's ever going to happen.
Yeah, but I don't believe one bloke can really take on the party machine!
Associate
I know there was a landslide in Scotland, but I voted Green. Always voting with my heart now.
But well done to the conservatives 'tho. I'm not happy that people don't agree with my views but that's how democracy works, which, I always maintain isn't the pinnacle of social order up to date. However, I appreciate our form of mob rule. At least we should keep it polite and civil.
and BTW, vote for whatever the hell you want to vote on! don't listen to those above whom may say "vote for your family" or "vote for the good of everyone". Maybe vote on who you want to vote for (or don't)!
Edit: So how then can we make mob rule more fair for the mob? I hear chat about proportional representation.
But well done to the conservatives 'tho. I'm not happy that people don't agree with my views but that's how democracy works, which, I always maintain isn't the pinnacle of social order up to date. However, I appreciate our form of mob rule. At least we should keep it polite and civil.
and BTW, vote for whatever the hell you want to vote on! don't listen to those above whom may say "vote for your family" or "vote for the good of everyone". Maybe vote on who you want to vote for (or don't)!
Edit: So how then can we make mob rule more fair for the mob? I hear chat about proportional representation.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Oct 2002
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- 13,597
How do you work that one out? If the predictions were right Labour would have needed the SNP in some form of agreement. As it is Cameron can ignore the SNP and hope that the voters will blame the SNP for getting nothing.
Caporegime
PR is a great system and it works extremely well down here in Australia, where it has given real teeth to microparties in the Senate. I'm not sure you'd get the full benefit of PR in the UK, which doesn't have a proper house of review.
Soldato
On my facebook it seems to be the opposite to what most are seeing, people are slating others for voting labour. Anyone harassing others for their choice of party on my facebook is promptly removed. That said i'd rather a conservative government than a UKIP government.
My first choice was not the tories, always going to vote labour as they hold the value that are important to me.
My first choice was not the tories, always going to vote labour as they hold the value that are important to me.
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Or a sane public. Look what happened to LD. How would any vote make it through under PR. PR is all about compromise something the electorate absolutely crucified LD for doing.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2012
- Posts
- 5,326
Just goes to show the mob is fickle, which is why PR is not necessarily a good idea.
Soldato
If you start down that route you end up with a dictatorship. No matter if you like the results or not, representation must match votes as closely as possible for the system to have any legitimacy.
There's one problem with this view, labour only gained 12 seats from the lib dems, the Tories gained 40, most with an increased vote share (so not just a case of the liberal vote collapsing).
Down here in the south west, outside the cities, labour don't get a look in, what happened down here was that when it mattered, people didn't trust the lib dems to continue with the government that has worked for 5 years, because they created that uncertainty by not standing behind their achievements in government. The voting public then made the choice that was better for stability, and voted blue. That isn't the lib dems being punished for being in government, it is them being punished for not making the most of it.