The Official Microsoft Flight Thread

Some more on "Flight", courtesy link from UK Trainsim:

http://flyawaysimulation.com/news/4317/microsoft-flight-behind-scenes-at-microsoft-studios/

Will repeat what I posted at UKTS:
"It does not sound very appealing. To be honest, I haven't touched FS2004 or FSX for over two years anyway - something else always seemed to come along - and I can't see what Flight offers changing that. This seems more like the old Flight (Un)Limited idea revamped, which was a novelty for about 10 minutes but quickly faded. The idea of the basic game being free but buying content was that mooted by Auran for Trainz, prior to first release. Didn't work then and not sure it will work now. As we have seen with Railworks, many people are starting to get jaded with buying additional content and if Flight has no means for the third party "little guy" developer to get involved, that's also a big no, no in my book.

I wonder if this is one of the first games that will be "cloud" (no pun intended) based, as it seems to be DLC only and not get a boxed release?

My aviation interest is primarily in simulating the "heavies", particularly the big jets from the 80's and early 90's such as the DC10, L1011 and of course The Lump, not general aviation.

Huge fail in my view then from MS, let's just hope Cascade pull something out of their hat to satisfy the simulation crowd."
 
No SDK just kills any hope there was for this. I don't think I have read any more than 10 positive comments out of hundreds in the past 2 days.
 
I just can't see how MS can satisfy enough people if they are planning to build their own DLC. The beauty of FSX is you can pretty much do anything out the box and you only have to buy addons if you want to expand or enhance something specific.

Some might want to glide over Iceland while others just want to do aerobatics over their home town and others want to fly transatlantic in an A380. Can MS really have all that DLC ready to go for launch?

In trying to appeal to the mass market they'll risk not appealing to many people at all.
 
I'm going to reserve judgement until they launch. At the moment all we know is that they've crippled half of the good things that made fsx great, but have also resolved performance issues that made it inaccessible to most people who didn't want to spend 1k on a rig for it. Without seeing what the big jets are like we can't say it'll be pants. It all hangs on the dlc: pricing and quality, as well as scope. It's hard to imagine them pulling it off in any way, but ever the optimist I'm going to wait until those questions are answered before letting go of my last shred of hope. I have to believe it's going to be good!
 
Interesting post on the ORBX forums...

Now wonder why Mr John Venema Orbx CEO is upset about MS flight

since we cannot generate income from such a proprietary arrangement

He was thinking of getting a new customer base for he addons & more money but MS have closed the door on him.

And to resale the same addons again to his current customers that have them for FSX.

At this point in time I am sure there are a lot of 3rd party payware sites hoping this is going to be one big fail.

If MS pull it off they have got the market all to their self <(spelling ? ) :)

quote from the same thread from John V

If they can convince third party developers to create content for it, I wish them luck. I doubt if any company will agree to their terms.

Looks like MS Flight said to Orbx you can make addons for MS Flight but you can only sale it in game & we will be taking a cut thankyou.

If you think about it how much money have sites like Obex made off the back of FSX?

How much of that money have they given MS?

I don't care who I give my money to just as longs as it works better then FSX & looks the same I am easy.
 
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I'm sure Mr Orbx is rather annoyed because they spoke to MS at least once a week for the past 2 years only to be completely shut out 2/3 of the way through the development cycle. There is another post in the ORBX forum with more detail but it sounds like the Flight team were very enthusiastic but the 'suits' were not.
 
Why did Microsoft not give jobs to the all the top FSX modders and make the best flight sim ever? Maybe there's still hope, if the Flight engine is good, they might make a more serious FSX like sim from it in a couple of years.
 
Wonder if Orbx has ever thanked MS FSX for making them money in the first place, If it was not for MS FSX there would be no Orbx.
Sad that he feels the need to feel bitter about MS Flight :rolleyes:

I have paid MS £20 for FSX they prob get £10 of that.
I have paid Orbx £120 they will get £60 min of that.
Why should MS only get £10 something was never right there.

The way I see it MS Flight are happy for third party developers to create content for Flight, but the days of you keeping all the money off the back of as are over.

People are saying the MS Flight are mad for doing what they have done are they?
I think they would be mad to make the same mistake twice.
In five years time this could be a great thing when more addons are released.

People are also complaining about having to pay for new content but the same people have already spent £100's of pounds on third party content £60 for one plane no problem here's the money but what wait I got to pay for MS Flight content :confused:
 
Back to this quote from Orbx who have been in talks with MS in the past so I am taking this as a hint of whats been said.

If they can convince third party developers to create content for it, I wish them luck. I doubt if any company will agree to their terms.

No free any easy SDK like FSX has but a SDK under MS tight terms like we take 75% of all profit from anything you make & it can only been bought from within & installed within MS flight.
Unlike with FSX you take 100% we take nothing & can do nothing about it.

So MS Flight might have said to Orbx yes you can make addons for MS Flight but you are not going to be taking all the money this time.
 
Interesting post from Robert from PMDG on the matter...

Captains-

I've let a few days go by without commenting on the topic of MS Flight not because I haven't anything to say, but because I have been rather engrossed in all the year end/year begin administrivia required to keep both PMDG and my aviation consulting business in compliance with all the various regulations and tax codes... (Translation: If you want to know how to have fun, hang out with someone else. :LMAO: )

The topic of FLIGHT has been an interesting one. When I was a kid, I recall watching a movie or TV show about the airship Hindenburg catching fire. I was fascinated that the participants were enthusiastically waiving even as you could see their ship beginning to consume itself in flames. The image was horrible- and it left me wondering how those aboard could have been so happily distracted that they remained blissfully unaware of their impending doom...

I find myself equally curious about the topic at hand.

Let's just get something right out on the table: If you are reading this, then you are not likely to be the target audience for FLIGHT- and this is why the reaction by this community has ranged from tepid acceptance to outright bewilderment at the unveiling of MS's newest game.

You see, FLIGHT has gone through a number of changes during the course of it's development. I was initially "briefed in" on the project that would eventually become FLIGHT all the way back in August of 2009. At that time, it seemed to me that a good faith effort was being made to get MS back in the genre, and that a significant amount of effort was going to be put into creating the simulation that FSX should have been when it was prematurely released in 2006.

Since that time, I have watched (at times in dismay) the project transitioned from "modest proposal" to "green-lit console-style game" to "resurgent FSX replacement" and back to the console-ish game that the product seems to have become in it's final format. Love the idea, or hate it, it appears to me that the marketing people have once again won the battle of demands and the end result is a fast-action point-and-score type game that is envisioned to ring in unit sales by appealing to those who are interested in action, leveling-up and point scoring rather than true simulation as it is known to all of us in this community.

Again- you are likely not the target audience, so any similarity between FLIGHT and the hobby we know as flight simulation is purely coincidental.

I mentioned that we have been watching this process in earnest for quite awhile now. Early in the process, our opinion was solicited on a wide range of topics, and semi-occasional updates seemed to indicate that strides were being made on a project that had some potential to give us all a next generation platform to work with... Something all of us in the development and sim-consumer community would LOVE to see.

But there were undertones that caused us some concern. Namely, there was a theme that continually floated to the surface that seemed to indicate that MS was looking to "monetize the secondary development market" in order to increase the long term revenue stream upon which development of the platform would be based.

To put it a bit more bluntly: It became obvious to me very early-on that MS was looking to get a piece of the secondary market in which companies like PMDG, Aerosoft, Flight1, Level D and the like make our living. This idea has been looming over the horizon since at least late 2005 when a gaggle of FS developers were invited to Redmond to view the upcoming FSX. There were hints dropped at the time, and behaviors that, to me indicated a growing desire on the part of MS to learn just how much money the secondary market was generating.

There could only be a single reason why they would want to know this information...

I am not generally swayed by fear or hysterics, so when the same behaviors were present at the 2007 meeting hosted by MS, I began to expect that whatever version followed FSX would come with some licensing requirement in order to help MS generate revenue from the secondary market. This in and of itself wouldn't be a terrible thing, especially if it kept the platform vital and moving forward- but as we all saw there was a decision to cut ties with the ACES development team, followed by a brief period of quiet, and then the word of FLIGHT came along.

In our conversations, the inevitable discussion of "monetizing the secondary market" finally came about. The talk was faint at first, but approximately a year after being initially briefed into project, the talk became more solid, more definite. Requests for information were not immediately answered, or they were answered obliquely in a fashion that any negotiator will tell you is designed to mask the true answer.

Then the product details began to dribble out. I won't repeat them here as many of them changed and many other details have already been published in other places, but a couple of developers, including PMDG, were asked to make a strong commitment to FLIGHT in order to help get the secondary market up and running in a manner that would generate buzz and entice users to move to the new platform. At PMDG, we demurred....

You see- we nearly put PMDG out of business by adopting our entire development process for 2006/2007 around the release of FSX. When that platform proved to be unready for the market it had disastrous consequences- and while we were very much excited by the idea of a new and more capable platform- there remained the obvious fear of "going down that road again" with FLIGHT.

Eventually we were presented with a picture of how our lives would have to change in order to support FLIGHT:

All commercial products would be marketed exclusively by MS and we would not be allowed to sell our own products from our own sites.
No freeware, not even free expansions to our own products. (Think: liveries)
Unclear controls regarding pricing.
The inability to market our own products in the brick and mortar retail market without purchasing licenses to our own products in advance of production. (This would increase our costs dramatically, making it impossible to support a retail operation...)
All developers would be required to pay a sizable per-unit license fee on all FLIGHT products.

If the sales figures we were being promised were to come true- then all of the restrictions above would have been a minor inconvenience- but as one of my favorite pilot friends likes to say: "I didn't get to be this old by being stupid." PMDG has been in this business for nearly 15 years- and while we do occasionally make mistakes, I feel that we have a pretty good feel for the simming marketplace, its size and how it operates- and this new business model gave me pause.

PMDG has always had a good, honest, open relationship with the team at MS- so we provided them with open, honest and candid feedback that we felt was respectful, and candid. In spite of repeated requests for a commitment, we demurred. Shortly there-after the communication channel went dead. Calls and emails went unanswered, and advance alphas stopped arriving. Shortly there-after we received a perfunctory email advising that our input was no longer desired.

I wish I could tell you that I was surprised- but I was not. After all- we were being asked to effectively surrender years of very delicate and careful work to build a brand and a relationship with all of you. This was not something to be taken lightly...

So at the end of the day, I was surprised and disappointed to see that the developers of FLIGHT elected to bring in a bunch of people to see FLIGHT, while very noticeably keeping out many of the same folks who have supported MS and the genre for years. The message was made loudly and clearly that our input was not desired and that the strategic objectives of FLIGHT do not involve the community that companies like PMDG, Aerosoft and the like represent.

In other words: This game is not supposed to replace your FSX simulation.... You are not the target audience.

So where do we go from here?

Well- first- I'm not overly concerned. As hardware advances- FSX is really just coming into its own on the average consumer's hardware- so we intend to continue FSX development for the foreseeable future! There are a number of directions in which we can go- and PMDG has already been taking steps to sort out what platform our future products will feature. There has been some loose talk about PMDG and Xplane10- but I must tell you that while we are evaluating that product, and while we do have someone on staff helping to map out the process by which our products wind up in Xplane10- we are still some way out on that project line... From a developers standpoint Xplane10 certainly seems to be a good solid platform that will help our products to shine- but, like FSX it has some weaknesses and we need to evaluate whether it makes sense to allow XPlan10 at this time.

I don't yet have an answer to this question.

In the mean time, we continue at full steam to put the 777 together for you. I am not sweating the small stuff at this particular juncture- but I promise that whatever direction we go- you will be welcome to follow!

Happy New Year- everyone!
 
It's a shame it's stalemate & we are the lossers.

The third party developers don't want to lose the money they are making at the moment.
I don't blame them it's there jobs & pays the bills.

MS want a start to get them money that the third party developers have been making out of FSX for the last 6 years.
I don't blame them if I was them I would be ****ed (<< starts with a P not the other) that I only get £10 out each customer when I could get £100 with addon sales.

Only good thing is is FSX looks so nice with addons & 5 years time we should be running at 50 FPS with everything maxed out just got to play the waiting game.

the end result is a fast-action point-and-score type game that is envisioned to ring in unit sales by appealing to those who are interested in action, leveling-up and point scoring
nods.

Oh well that's me done on the topic.
 
The sooner people realise this isn't an replacement for FSX the better, if anyone had read the welcome letter to the beta it clearly states this is a flying game for the masses.

I'll still play FSX like I always have, but I do quite like Flight too so I will be playing both.
 
I am in the beta (I don't give a **** if MS read this and block my GFWL account or something because GFWL is terrible and a ban would be yet another reason not to buy any game with it).

It IS FSX. Looks the same and flies the same. So the only difference this time is MS are holding the purse strings. No thanks MS. If you wanted to do that you could at least have changed the game rather than ctrl-C ctrl-V FSX.

For me there is no reason to sign up for or get Flight if you already own FSX especially if you have FSX modded (which you should do) in which case you will have more aircraft and it will look better.


Flight = F2P FSX with MS only microtransactions. No thanks.
 
......... It IS FSX. Looks the same and flies the same.

Please don't tell me that you really think you are playing a beta of a finshed game?
Do you understand how a beta test works?

So you are telling me that these Youtube videos of MS flight look like FSX without any third party addons.


1.02 looks as good as Orbx buildings

As show on the MS Flight website aswell.
Looks the some standard as any third party addon I have ever seen if not better using new tech not 6 year old tech.

Stop trolling.

& sorry that you can't even respect the terms of being a beta tester :rolleyes:
 
did 3rd party developers have to pay any fees/royalities etc to Microsoft for FSX ?

whilst I'm not necessarily yet convinced by what I'm being told I'll see in Flight - it does seem like a sensible business model
 
also on subject of how much or not of world is modelled

I personally would much prefer a Flight Sim with one area modelled extremely well

in fact only need a few aircraft too ...

still not flown any 3rd party plane in FSX that has handled as "realistically" as the DCS A10
 
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