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** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

Associate
Joined
12 Jul 2015
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1,694
I'm hoping for a 980 or 980Ti replacement by GTC or by summer at least? Nvidia hasn't said diddly squat on Pascal, but I very much remember feeling the same way before Maxwell came. Just be patient. It will release soon?

Oh I'm patient alright :) the silence is annoying indeed, I hope it ends soon. Like the other guy said, maybe there won't be a Ti and they just move on to Volta. There didn't do one for the 4, 5 and 6 series, but did for the 2, 7 and 9. They can do whatever the heck they want and need in the end. Whatever comes out, it'll be better than my current card ;) and if only the price was right... How long does it usually takes for inflated new GPU prices to come down?
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Aug 2008
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8,338
Would investing in an expensive 9xx-based gaming laptop now be a bit silly?

Or are the trickle-down effects from next gen on laptops still very far away?

Looks like mobile will be coming in the first wave if not outright first, in the next few months perhaps. At the very least you should wait for GTC April 4th and the inevitable leaks ahead of that in March/Feb.
 
Soldato
Joined
29 May 2006
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5,354
TSMC seems to be abandoning 16nm - its only road mapped through 2016 with medium power level optimisation and they are pouring investment into 10nm and 7nm instead of enhanced 16nm. They are claiming that they will start production for 10nm towards the end of the year in time for products to make it to market early 2017 but I doubt anyone is holding their breath on that one the only thing that might make a difference there is that it will make a big difference as to whether they hold onto Apple as a customer.
Its not just Apple a few customers are waiting on 10nm to start rolling out the new technology's it enables. One example being Ray Tracing which really needs to be 10nm to be practical in mobile. The power usage goes down to around 3 watt at 10nm. I can see 10nm being the next 28nm and sticking around for years.
 
Mobster
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Part of me is tempted to buy another Titan X and when Pascal releases, bury my head in the sand :D I am genuinely concerned that performance will not be there on "lightweight" Pascal.

If lightweight pascal beasts a Titan X, I'll say something really nice about AMD. That's how confident I am it wont :D
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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33,188
TSMC and Samsung (and Intel) are all trying to be first to ramp 10nm, so their little race may bring us a GP104 followed by a GV104 with no high-end in sight.

These 10nm offerings are meant to be rather lacking though, with very little density/power benefits over 16/14. So not sure NV would spend the hundreds of mil's to tape out on 10nm when they could hang in a little longer and maybe get a bigger chip made on a process variant more suitable for GPUs. Unless TSMC ditch 16 like 20? 10nm does have a new back-end, which means the chip's internal wiring will be smaller as well.

They are cutting corners big time now with 10nm / 7nm, they listed the specs we should expect for both and they were really underwhelming. They previously said they were going to standardize on 16, but it looks like they will just keep saying that each node and hope someone comes up with a new process they can license or something. Like IBM's fancy SOI stuff.

Where exactly are you getting this? 10nm is being talked about at around twice the transistor density and 40% power reduction. It's a significantly reduced size in transistor and back end. 7nm is similar to 16nm in that it's a reduced transistor size on the 10nm backend.

It's not being rushed or corners cut, they are relatively on time. 16nm isn't so much late as it's a way to practice finfet on the cheap. It's better to get 20nm non finfet working, then put finfets on a working backend, then do a new all finfet node... than jumping straight to finfet with no previous experience at their 10nm process. IE lets say(I can't remember the dates) 28nm 2011, 20nm 2014, 10nm 2017. They are about on schedule, they just had a middle step on 20nm with some smaller finfets as a kind of mid node.
 
Associate
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I keep seeing people on these facebook groups saying that "Pascal" (no specific card) is going to be 10 x times faster than Titan X.....

My face is aching from my palm hitting it so much. They wont be told though.....they won't be told.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Mar 2013
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5,470
I keep seeing people on these facebook groups saying that "Pascal" (no specific card) is going to be 10 x times faster than Titan X.....

My face is aching from my palm hitting it so much. They wont be told though.....they won't be told.

The pascal very top end might be near 10x I would think? I'm just hoping GTX980 replacement GTX 1080 or what ever they call it? is at least 3x to 5x faster then Titan X? I don't know if it will, but we'll soon find out.
 
Soldato
Joined
26 Aug 2004
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The pascal very top end might be near 10x I would think? I'm just hoping GTX980 replacement GTX 1080 or what ever they call it? is at least 3x to 5x faster then Titan X? I don't know if it will, but we'll soon find out.

It won't even be 3x+ as powerful if you're talking FPS numbers, seriously when has that ever happened? Even the best card will probably get close to 2x or by a miracle a little over that?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
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92,179
I'd imagine we are looking at more like +45% tier for tier for older games and maybe 2-3x increase in games that take good advantage of advanced DX12 features where the newer architecture will be better optimised than older ones.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
32,624
I keep seeing people on these facebook groups saying that "Pascal" (no specific card) is going to be 10 x times faster than Titan X.....

My face is aching from my palm hitting it so much. They wont be told though.....they won't be told.

Depends on what task though, for certain compute tasks like deep learning it is 5-10x faster.That won't translate I
To games though.
 
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Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,188
Why keep saying it like that, you're trying to hype it up. No graphics card has ever been 3 times faster than an older one, ever. It's not physically possible. At best it will have twice the transistors, that is a physical limitation. The reality is that they are unlikely to make 600mm^2 cores, AMD or Nvidia, on 16nm. If Nvidia goes big on 16nm it will unlikely go much beyond 500mm^2, more realistically it will do a midsized core like 680gtx then might do a bigger part but well below 600mm^2.

Nvidia also is likely to put back in compute and hardware scheduler making for a smaller than most gens increase in transistors for direct end gaming performance.

There is categorically no chance of 5x the speed, none. At best it will be 2x Titan X for a similarly sized core, maybe 2.5x in very specific games which overuse certain features, but would be no where near that with said feature turned off. IE Cod 56 might be 60fps on Titan X and 100fps on Titan Y with the same settings, but 30fps vs 80fps with some new feature turned on(still not very likely).

Most gens you get lucky to get 80% more performance out of twice the transistors, 65-75% is more likely and Pascal has very little chance of either of those because of the tiny chance of making another 600mm^2 core early on 16nm and having to add those other things back in.

I'd say a 600mm^2 core with compute/scheduler back would struggle to be 60% faster, but I very much doubt they'll get a core above 400mm^2 in 2016, which will struggle to be 25% faster.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
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92,179
I'd say a 600mm^2 core with compute/scheduler back would struggle to be 60% faster, but I very much doubt they'll get a core above 400mm^2 in 2016, which will struggle to be 25% faster.

I'll be surprised if we see 400mm2 let alone beyond that - currently the highest end 16nm process is optimised for "mid" power level use and anything above 3xxmm2 seems to offer increasingly diminished gains over 28nm. Though I guess there is nothing to stop people doing bigger cores TSMC seems to be actively trying to keep them to 3xx tops from what other companies who are using the process have said.

EDIT: Looks like their main focus is mobile stuff with the 16nm "compact" optimisation and push for 10nm :S
 
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Associate
Joined
4 Nov 2013
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Oxfordshire
I keep seeing people on these facebook groups saying that "Pascal" (no specific card) is going to be 10 x times faster than Titan X.....

My face is aching from my palm hitting it so much. They wont be told though.....they won't be told.

Yeah in double precision maybe, compared to maxwell which fares very badly in that.
Thinking that it will be 10X faster in games (or even 3X) is plain dumb IMHO. It 2X faster if everything goes well i think, maybe more in DX12.
 
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Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2008
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London
Honestly, in this day and age, who here isn't training neural networks in their spare time? Nothing better than relaxing after a hard day at work, turn on the PC and run software that generates black box models to fit data...

Ahh the life of a carefree gamer in 2016 :D
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Feb 2015
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When 10x faster than Titan X was mentioned it was in reference to HPC systems using NvLink. So more likely a mix of regained Double Precision, some extra performance and better interlinking.
 
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