Poll: *** The official Studio Display thread (it has the 27" 5K iMac screen and everything!) ***

[HACO]

Since some of us are getting this it's good for it to have its own thread.



Spec:

• 27-inch
• 5K resolution (5120x2880), at 218ppi
• 600 nit brightness
• True Tone
• 12MP webcam with centre stage
• Glossy, with optional nano-texture glass
• Apple A13 chip inside for video/audio processing
• 6 speaker setup

Price:

£1500 for normal stand (tilt only), or VESA mounts (buy your own stand)
Tilt and height adjustable stand extra £300
Nano-texture glass extra £250
You can replace the stand after purchase at Apple Stores, no supported DIY method yet.

It's a 27" iMac without the computer.

 

[HACO]

Apple Studio Display Contains 64GB of Storage, But Only 2GB Used

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/21/studio-display-contains-64gb-storage/

As Macrumours says, the Studio display has better internal specs that the current Apple TV 4K. But can't use any of that obviously. Would have been very good if they allowed Apple TV functionality on this.

 

[HACO]

Reviews aren’t great that I’ve seen. I like this guys videos.

Too limiting for the cost.

Wasn't a review really, just unboxing and walking through the spec sheet.

Most of the people who are upset aren't because this is a bad product, but because it's expensive and doesn't have the features that Macbook Pro displays have (HDR, ProMotion, Mini-LED etc). The reality is that if it did have those features it would have been £5000 rather than £1500. There's also no alternative display on the market with those features (200+ppi, 120Hz, local dimming, proper HDR - not the BS on cheap monitors) at £1500, in fact none exist at all to my knowledge. Apple will probably release that display to replace the Pro Display XDR but it will be very expensive. Wouldn't surprise me if it goes well above £5000.

No doubt Studio Display is overpriced. But unlike this guy's comments, there are no alternatives if you care about pixel density as there is no other 27" 5K screen on the market in the UK (The LG Ultrafine hasn't been available in the UK for well over a year, and that was was also overpriced at about £1300). The Huawei/Dell are 168ppi rather than 218, which is quite noticeable (I do use both).

Some people aren't sensitive to it, or even don't notice the difference and in that case they should never buy this and get a decent 27" 4K instead for less than half the price, or pay extra for more features (120Hz, etc). If you are sensitive to it, Apple is the only game in town right now so they get to charge extortionate prices and people will still buy them.

 

[HACO]

Literally took most of the words I was typing and put them in for me, I don't understand how he banged on about things like 120Hz and then recommended a MateView which is lower PPI and 60Hz lol. The usual YouTube/Tech-Review tripe that wants all of the latest and greatest features with zero grounding in reality. Is there even a 5K Monitor with 120Hz on the market yet? I do agree it's expensive, but Apple tax always is.

The YouTube reviewers don't understand the monitor/tech market at all. They only get the Apple ecosystem (ProMotion on iPhone/MBP is good, I want it in my 27" display too!). A lot of the PC/tech reviewers don't get the Apple ecosystem either (they say make it 4K but 120Hz, which is fine but Apple users would never go for a drop in pixel density). If this was a 4K120Hz it would have been the biggest flop of all time - literally no longer a retina display.

There's no single 5K 120Hz at all, in fact there's no panel that can do it.

If you want 27" or larger, and >200ppi, there are only 8 panels in the whole world right now. 5K 120Hz would be more than Thunderbolt 4 or HDMI 2.1's bandwidth as well, we'll need DisplayPort 2.0 for that (and no, DSC isn't an alternative for a colour accurate display).



All are 60Hz, and all the 27" ones are actually revisions of the same panel in the 27" iMac and LG Ultrafine. The 32" 8K panel is used in Dell UP3218K (which is £3500). The only panel missing here is the Pro Display XDR (32" 6K) but that's an exclusive Apple panel so wouldn't show up in these databases (and exclusive panels are super expensive).

Ignoring 5K, there are some Mini-LED / local dimming monitors with 120Hz:

At 27" 4K (164ppi), there are ASUS PG27UQX and Acer X27S, both are gaming-oriented (rather than design). Both are in the £1500-2000 region and cost more than the Studio Display.
At 32" 4K (138ppi), there are ASUS PG32UQX and Acer X32, again both are in the £3000+ price range.

If you want colour accuracy, e.g. ASUS ProArt line which is more comparable to Apple displays, you lose the 120Hz and then you're looking at £2500 for a 27" 4K with local dimming (ASUS ProArt PA27UCX-K).

Not sure how people were expecting Apple, of all people, to take the £2500 ProArt, up the resolution to 5K, add 120Hz to it, and then sell it for £1500? Was never ever going to happen.

£1500 for a 27" monitor either gives you 120Hz/local dimming, or 5K resolution. Take your pick. You can't have both.

 

[HACO]

@HACO We've had the discussion about the difference in density between 4K and 5K monitors before and as you know, I really can't tell the difference between my Asus 28" 4K monitor and my iMac 27" 5K screen.

So with that in mind, what I should do when I buy the Mac Studio is get another Asus screen. The trouble is that I actually don't like it very much! It works perfectly well but I think it looks dreadfully plastic, the stand is horrible, the menu system is nasty to navigate and the inbuilt speakers are utter pants.

I think this one looks nice, it's physically smaller than my iMac so I'll be able to position it better on my desk, it'll take less space and it has far better speakers than the iMac or the Asus monitor. I'll almost certainly end up giving the Asus to my lad and buying two of the Apple displays.

Maybe consider the Huawei Mateview? It's 28" 3:2, 164ppi (so slightly better than your 28" 4K which is 157), looks really nice, plays reasonably well with macOS, and currently is on a great promotion (£500 with £100 cashback). The buttons are touch screen and nice as well. It also charges back laptops via the same USB-C.

Exactly, I don't understand the majority of the monitor market, but even I understand how this works, madness that all these 'established tech reviewers' can't grasp this, but then again I guess slating on Apple for not having features nobody else has either is trendy, and gets a good return on the o'l clicks.

I remember when the XDR came out and everyone slating it, despite it matching up to monitors twice and three times its price, despite it never being toted as something the average Joe would go and buy.

Most of the reviewers don't even know any better. It's their video recording and production skills that made them popular, not their tech knowledge. They know how to make videos and talking about tech gets views and advertisers.

 

[HACO]

Apple Stores Can Upgrade a Studio Display's Stand After Purchase

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/21/studio-display-vesa-mount-adapter-after-purchase/

So stand is upgradeable after all, you just need to take it to Apple to do it. Cost is still unknown.

 

[HACO]

I guess that is Marques cut off from Apple - pretty damming review on all counts really.

More like he doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes nice looking videos and is a very good presenter but never seen him actually explain anything in any real depth, but maybe that's why he's so popular. Described the syndrome here:

Most of the people who are upset aren't because this is a bad product, but because it's expensive and doesn't have the features that Macbook Pro displays have (HDR, ProMotion, Mini-LED etc). The reality is that if it did have those features it would have been £5000 rather than £1500.

In the end he made it clear he wanted MiniLED, ProMotion, and 5K in one package for £1500. Basically a 120Hz version of the Pro Display XDR for £1500. Generally shows he doesn't understand the monitor market if he believes £1500 should get you that.

 

[HACO]

No he didn't? He mentioned what it didnt have, he never said he wanted it all in one package.

"Honestly, for nearly $2,000, if you just close your eyes and say ok, it's 2022, and Apple is going to make a studio display, you'd expect...mini-LED maybe? or maybe pro-motion, or maybe it might have faceID or a good webcam or just ANY COMBINATION OF THOSE THINGS. Instead it has none...and a non-removable power cable...and a non-user-upgradable stand.

That is a rare swing and a miss for me, somebody who works in a studio"

And then he goes on to explain it's a good deal if that's exactly what you need and there's no alternative.



No and...no.

Agree he didn't say he wanted them all, he just wanted more. But apart from accessory features (stand, ports, webcam, etc which could be better, but who cares either way) the display itself couldn't have more and be at this price. Notice all those features are iPhone or MacBook features, which is what I said before. He likes those stuff on his iPhones and MacBook and wanted them here. It's exactly what I said yesterday about these reviewers.

As for the actual two features, "expecting" a $1600 colour accurate 5K monitor from Apple of all people to have MiniLED means you have no idea about monitors, 4K ones from ASUS or Lenovo cost $3000. And "Expecting" it to have 120Hz is another level, such panel doesn't even exist on the planet and there's no interface that supports that bandwidth.

So again, a $1600 monitor in 2022 from Apple would most definitely not have those two big features. Anyone who reviews these stuff for a living should know this.

 

[HACO]

As above, I just can’t see how you can ignore the glaring issues which such an expensive product.

This monitor is clearly a miss, it’s only redeeming features are the 5k panel and the general build quality. Everything else around it is just really odd and destroys the utility of the screen.

A proprietary, ‘non removable’ power cable is just completely unnecessary, particularly given it’s so short. It’s the same company that gave us the completely over engineered mag safe imac power cable with built in Ethernet.

The stand… where do we start? Well the standard one is just too low so ergonomically it doesn’t work and has no hight adjust or swivel, on a £1500 screen, it’s just poor. It’s also proprietary and fixed, yes Apple can change it for you for £lol but it’s just unnecessary. If you want height adjust that’s another £400, ridiculous. Every other monitor on the market comes with a stand and is VESA compatible.

The webcam is soft and the speakers crush the highs.

Don’t get me wrong, the screen is incredibly overbuilt, and is beautiful to look at but it’s 100% form over function. Classic apple really, over engineer something to the point it’s actually gets the basics all wrong.

For a base price of £1500 I just can’t forgive its major shortcomings. I just can’t see who this is for other than those who must have that full Apple set up regardless of the cost.

I couldn’t even use the base model because of its broken ergonomics so I’d need to be for a minimum of £1900 which is crazy money for what is otherwise the same screen you got in an iMac for the same money.

Didn’t the 5k iMac start at £1600 and include an entire (granted, not that great) computer?

I was the first one to admit the issues, if you scroll up I said in the first few posts that it's overpriced.

As for stand, you can VESA mount (which is a free option). So get your own arm for £50 and you have everything you need. As for webcam, who cares? As for speakers, who cares that they're apparently good (or bad), since when people care about speaker and webcams of monitors? They've always sucked regardless of price. Proprietary cable is stupid but is a minor thing. You can pull it out with effort and there will be third party replacements like there always is, so no big deal, just a minor thing. I don't buy monitors for speakers, stand, webcam or cables.

Again if you scroll up, I said this is for people who want 220ppi, i.e. 5K at 27". If you don't, don't buy it:

No doubt Studio Display is overpriced. But unlike this guy's comments, there are no alternatives if you care about pixel density as there is no other 27" 5K screen on the market in the UK (The LG Ultrafine hasn't been available in the UK for well over a year, and that was was also overpriced at about £1300). The Huawei/Dell are 168ppi rather than 218, which is quite noticeable (I do use both).

Some people aren't sensitive to it, or even don't notice the difference and in that case they should never buy this and get a decent 27" 4K instead for less than half the price, or pay extra for more features (120Hz, etc). If you are sensitive to it, Apple is the only game in town right now so they get to charge extortionate prices and people will still buy them.

Two things can be true at the same time:

1. This display is overpriced.
2. There's no way a £1500 27" 5K display could have 120Hz or MiniLED. No other manufacturer does it, Apple won't either.

£1000 would have been the appropriate price for this. But you're paying the Apple tax because they're the only one who's doing a 5K right now.

 

[HACO]

Wait, let me get this right.

you said he said a thing which led you to saying that thing shows he doesnt know what he's talking about, right? And when it's pointed out that thing you claimed he said was 100% incorrect...you still think he doesnt know what he's talking about?

It's clear you have an issue with MKBHD, but nothing you've said explains why. You think you know why, but everything you've just claimed is incorrect. I'm starting to think you have an issue with him just because he doesn't agree with you.

No. I already admitted he didn't want them all, just more stuff. My focus was on the two bit features that he expected: MiniLED or 120Hz. He said he expected this $1600 5K 27" from Apple to have ProMotion (120Hz) or MiniLED (or other stuff, which I already said fair).

I explained why expecting those two features in a $1500 5K monitor from Apple means you don't know what you're talking about:

As for the actual two features, "expecting" a $1600 colour accurate 5K monitor from Apple of all people to have MiniLED means you have no idea about monitors, 4K ones from ASUS or Lenovo cost $3000. And "Expecting" it to have 120Hz is another level, such panel doesn't even exist on the planet and there's no interface that supports that bandwidth.

Like I said earlier, expecting Apple to take the $3000 4K ASUS ProArt (with MiniLED), upgrade it to 5K and maybe add 120Hz to it and sell it for $1600 means, once again, you don't know much about monitors.

If you like to refute any of this, on the actual substance rather than what MKBHD may or may not have said, happy to discuss with you.

It's clear you have an issue with MKBHD, but nothing you've said explains why.

I don't have any issue with him. Like most YouTube tech reviewers, he makes very nice videos, is an excellent presenter, and his videos are superficial without any in-depth substance, but that is maybe the key to his incredible success.

As for why I disagree with him, I expect a tech reviewer to understand the industry, and if they say they expect a feature I believe they should understand what that feature actually does to the cost of the product, as well as what similar products with those features cost. He quite clearly did not. Nothing personally against him, just a sloppy video, like most YouTubers do all the time.

 

[HACO]

The point he was making is the screens in those devices are better not that this monitor should have those features.

When he used this screen with a MacBook Pro, he ended up just using the laptop screen as the primary display because it’s just better. It sort of defeats the purpose of plugging in an external display.

His summary is clearly that it’s just too expensive unless it’s exactly what you want because it’s the only one of its kind on the market (hence the Rolls Royce analogy). Everyone else should just continue to buy non-Apple monitors for less than 1/3 the price.

Don't disagree. If you don't want 5k, don't buy this. That's not the problematic parts of the video. I said this before he released this video.

I completely disagree, none of those things are minor points, it’s a £1500 LCD screen, literally £100 less than the base 5k iMac, the execution should be perfect.

Even a £200 screen I got from Amazon for my wife’s home office has a full hight swivel and tilt stand and a vesa mount. The basic stand will fail even the most rudimentary DSE assessment in a business setting so it’s just not fit for purpose and basically forces you down the monitor arm route or the £400 upgrade. Unacceptable.

Fair. No product is ever perfect, I care about what I buy a product for. I don't care if a feature I never wanted in a product isn't perfect, or is awful. I was unhappy with my monitor's stand 10 years ago, I bought an arm. Still use it today so I don't care about any stand. I wouldn't buy a £400 stand. If Apple charged extra for the VESA mount it would have been a major issue for me. But since they don't, I don't even think about it. Most bundled monitor stands suck, they're flimsy and in strange shapes, so investing in a proper arm/stand is a good idea and they last for a long time

Apple spent actual time in their keynote talking about the webcam, it’s still poor. Again they spent actual time in the keynote talking about how great the speakers are and they sounded worse than you get in their laptops.

I don't care what Apple spends time during their keynotes, it's usually emojis and iMessage. I don't buy monitors for its webcam or speaker, and this should again be judged in context of the competitors, which if they have webcams or speakers they are also not good. I'd rather it didn't even have those to begin with.

The proprietary cable is not a minor point, if it gets damaged, the entire screen needs to be returned to apple for a repair. Not to mention Apple will stop supporting it in a few years meaning it could become E-waste because of a power cable. How is that even remotely acceptable in 2022?

Not really because it detaches and there will be third party ones. It's stupid, but again a minor point to me.

Btw Apple Cinema displays (from 2000s) also had a proprietary power cable, you can still find compatible replacements for them. So this is just concern trolling.

There are so many red flags with this product.

There are. But if you want 5K, you have no other choice. If you don't want 5K, all the other issues are irrelevant because even if everything else was perfect, you should still not buy this.

It’s just a shame because pretty much everything else Apple has released in the last couple of years has been killer but every now and again they do something like this to remind you what they really want to do with their mainstream products but can’t because of the backlash it would generate.

Don't agree. Mac line has been great, the rest have been very mediocre.

 

[HACO]

People wanted the Pro XDR with Pro Motion for well under half the price that retails at…

As it stands it’s kind of a classic Apple quandary where you’re having to pay more than you feel you should for a display that’s already been around for a long time, but there’s little alternative if you want that sweet doubled 2560x1440 scaling. Under a grand they’d be less grumbling, but it’s understandable after all this time people expected something other than an Ultrafine 5k in a (pretty) frock.

I might think about one once there’s used ones/refurbs floating about in a year or two…if there’s no competition released by then, but of course there’s no guarantee of that either and it might be a long wait for something akin to a big version of the MBP displays.

Price of used LG Ultrafine 5Ks have also dropped, they used to go for about £1200, even the ones with scratches on the screen were going for close to £1000. But they've dropped to about £800 now. The issue is that you don't know what you're getting, lots of the early revisions developed pretty bad image retention issues or dead/stuck pixels.

 

[HACO]

Yeah I have no doubt it will be way more reliable and w/better QC than the Ultrafine and more akin to just a standalone 27” iMac display. It’s a shame you can’t repurpose an old one of those to be an external display for an Apple silicone machine; my understanding is it’s only a certain generation of old iMacs and even then both machines have to run the same OS.

Just have to wait and see if this causes any competition to crop up, but it seems unlikely given the direction the monitor market has mostly gone in (which is no doubt caterers towards what sells the most).

I'm hoping this release reignites the 27" 5K market, and we see some competition. Last time when the 27" iMac came out the usual suspects (Dell, HP, etc) did make 27" 5K monitors for a while (ordered the same panels as Apple), but they were too compromised. They need two cables, software issues, major QA issues, etc... Not cool. Not all GPUs could handle 5K, and Windows struggled with resolutions above 5K. They were discontinued pretty quickly.

This time a single HDMI 2.1 can handle the signal and modern GPUs have no issues, lots of other laptops also have Thunderbolt, and Windows 11 does 5K just fine. So If they show up there's a much better chance for success.

With DP 2.0 we also do 32" 8K without any DSC with one cable. 2x scale on 4K on a 32" would be very sweet. Sadly the only 32" 8K monitor right now costs £3500 and requires two cables.

 

[HACO]

Something else did cross my mind. There are a couple of YouTube videos of people who have bought an iMac chassis, and then got the LG panel and a control board from Aliexpress and built their own "iMac display". What I couldn't work out was, why not just get a complete iMac and replace the control board? It seems like much less faff than having to order an extra panel. I'm sure they considered doing that, but I couldn't find a suitable explanation. It is a pain you can use the iMac as a secondary display.

Probably cheaper to get an iMac chassis than a full iMac. Broken iMacs are often scrapped for parts and you can get the case for £50 or even less. Then a brand new 5K panel for about £200. That's £250. Full iMacs go for more than this, even broken ones and you're getting a used panel.

 

[HACO]

In most cases I'd probably be very happy with it because the 27" iMac screen has always been a pleasure to look it, and during the day this one can go a bit brighter than the iMacs/Ultrafine. As with you, it's just the Apple tax that's off-putting, but I'm not in any rush so I know I'll be able to get it cheaper down the line if no competition emerges. Yes there's all the 4K OLED monitors with true blacks and fast refresh rates etc, but if most of the time you're working with static elements and care about res (as after all 5K is 50%+ more pixels than 4K), text reproduction etc Apple have sort of got us by the balls unless you go outside the box like with the DIY display route.

Precisely. It's like a hostage situation. And this is also why the LG Ultrafine 5K was so expensive (£1200-1300) despite being in a very cheap package and with serious QA problems. It's a market where there's clearly demand and yet no other products.

 

[HACO]

Why is there no product if there is demand? Is it because its challenging process to make a 5K monitor? Or is it simply there is not enough demand?

Not a question directly at you, just questions which come to my mind after reading this thread.

The demand exists in only one market segment, that massively increases production costs.

Imagine a new IPS 27" 4K panel, targeted for productivity. Once these are built and tested, those which perform best will go into top-tier products (e.g. ASUS ProArt, Dell Ultrasharp), those that fail their test coverage, accuracy or brightness but are still adequate will go midrange products (e.g. Dell S series) and cheaper 60Hz gaming monitors, and the rest (awful performers, pixel defects, etc) can go into low-end office products and lower-end laptops. So you do one R&D and production line for multiple class of products.

People only want 5K at the highest end of the market, and they expect very good brightness and accuracy. If the 5K panel fails, it's very difficult to repurpose it and still sell it at reasonable prices because they now are at the same price as top-tier products of the second-best resolution.

Remember cheaper 5K monitors that came after the 27" iMac back in 2015-2016? Likes of Iiyama XB2779QQS or HP Z27q. These were using panels that Apple and LG were rejecting. They went for about £800 which was £500 cheaper than the LG Ultrafine 5K, but did terribly in the market because at £800 they were in the same price range as the higher end 4K monitors and most people preferred the 4K ones that were brighter and more colour accurate, and often a little cheaper. Also because back then they required two DP connectors (no longer the case with HDMI 2.1).

This is why highest-tier resolution has always been a very tricky market and always came with a huge premium.

Also why we only have one 8K monitor (Dell UP3218K) and despite it having no crazy features (no local dimming, miniLED, simple 60Hz, no HDR, only 400 nits, basic features, requiring two cables, being 4 years old) still goes for £3500, and there's no second-tier class of 8K monitors (yet).

Just had a despatch email for mine. I hope it’ll arrive tomorrow so I can get the Mac Studio hooked up at last.

Nice! What was your delivery window?

 

[HACO]

23rd to the 30th March so quite pleased it’s on its way now. Won’t be here till Monday though which is a surprise as DPD deliver at weekends too.

I have the same window and still processing. Happy you got yours though!

 

[HACO]

Is it still in China or has it landed in the UK.

Mine hasn't shipped yet but the expected delivery date is 30th to the 6th. My Mac Studio has a 29th to 5th and that shipped on the 23rd but is still in Shanghai.

To my knowledge all studio displays are being shipped from the UK or NL.

Is it still in China or has it landed in the UK.

Mine hasn't shipped yet but the expected delivery date is 30th to the 6th. My Mac Studio has a 29th to 5th and that shipped on the 23rd but is still in Shanghai.

Mine is also stuck in Shanghai since the 23rd. Likely in the same batch.

 

[HACO]

Wonder if the 2(!) fans can be heard in the monitor.

Most reviewers said it's inaudible. Likely very low rpm fans.

 

[HACO]

Got mine as well.

No surprises to be honest. Some observations:

* It's 5K so it's as sharp as you'd expect.
* The display is less reflective than the 27" iMac when I look at them side by side.
* The speakers are good, but will not replace an average dedicated speaker. Won't be using them as I have proper speakers.
* HDR playback is decent, definitely miles ahead of most "HDR" monitors that don't have the spec to back it up (basically anything that isn't local dimming / MiniLED, so nothing cheaper than £1500). But it's not a real HDR experience. So nothing like the Macbook Pros, Pro Display XDR or the best TVs out there.
* Build quality is great. Much better than the LG Ultrafine.
* Fans are completely inaudible.
* Colour accuracy is excellent. As you'd expect from an Apple display.
* Response times are not good, again as you'd expect.
* Contrast seems a little better than the 27" iMac. But not at the local dimming / MiniLED levels, obviously.
* I got the vesa mount version, so I get infinite flexibility but therefore no comment about stand.

My recommendation remains the same: if you're in the Apple ecosystem, and if you really care about 220ppi and 2:1 scaling on macOS, I recommend it as it is exactly what you want and there's nothing else. If this isn't you, save some money and get something else!