The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

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The engineers working there will be under no illusion that if they kick ass and work every hour god sends them, they will be paid a handsome bounty (stocks/bonuses) etc
Hopefully that stock isn't twitter stock, and where will the bonuses come from? In 5 years if twitter pays off its debt? Twitter isnt Spacex, where people just want to be the first or whatver to advance human race. Twitter is a social network that is run by a man baby that appears to be more and more needing to surround himself with yes men. It's hardly impressive to work for that guy.

Do you think it holds more weight to say you worked under bill gates at Microsoft, or Elon Musk at Twitter?

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Hopefully that stock isn't twitter stock, and where will the bonuses come from? In 5 years if twitter pays off its debt? Twitter isnt Spacex, where people just want to be the first or whatver to advance human race. Twitter is a social network that is run by a man baby that appears to be more and more needing to surround himself with yes men. It's hardly impressive to work for that guy.

Do you think it holds more weight to say you worked under bill gates at Microsoft, or Elon Musk at Twitter?

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I don't think it holds weight. Everyone that works for these people are disposable. There's always someone better around the corner and these people WILL get rid of you when you are no longer needed no matter if you sleep in the office for a full year or not.
 
Hopefully that stock isn't twitter stock, and where will the bonuses come from? In 5 years if twitter pays off its debt? Twitter isnt Spacex, where people just want to be the first or whatver to advance human race. Twitter is a social network that is run by a man baby that appears to be more and more needing to surround himself with yes men. It's hardly impressive to work for that guy.

Do you think it holds more weight to say you worked under bill gates at Microsoft, or Elon Musk at Twitter?

.
You are arguing absolute fundamentals though now. Why work for Twitter at all if you don't believe the stock price is going to go up? Bonuses aren't just paid when companies are profitable. Twitter is still a very well respected Silicone Valley logo to have on your CV, just like Facebook.

I think both hold value RE: Musk or Gates; but Gates was more of a businessman than an engineer - so it is just different. Musk is recognised as a "remove all boundaries" leader. I imagine folk that have come from his environment will be pretty hot engineers as the lad whipping them had such high (albeit sometimes misguided) expectations.

I don't like Musk or his behaviour BTW, but I understand why he did what he did. Twitter under the previous leadership was no better w.r.t raw financials, AND they were still staffing like the NHS from a magic money tree.

Alexa needs the same shake up.
 
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There are jobs that are precisely this (9-5); and this was why Twitter was haemorrhaging money. It was a private sector unicorn being run like it had a public sector slush fund. What Elon did was "reinvent" the way Twitter approached life from an engineering PoV.

The engineers working there will be under no illusion that if they kick ass and work every hour god sends them, they will be paid a handsome bounty (stocks/bonuses) etc. There are also the big intangibles like saying "you worked for Elon".

Keep in mind a lot of those devs need to be maxed to be "happy". There is nothing worse than a role that doesn't sharpen a top-tier engineer.

I think it's more likely they're under no illusion that the moment they fail because what the great and might Musk wants is impossible, or they have to try and explain reality to him they'll be fired, same if they try to explain to him that "yes you could do that, but it would break the law in multiple countries, and no I'm not willing to go to jail for you by putting my name on the paperwork" (Musk's personal lawyer was advising staff they could "self certify" stuff Twitter was under legal obligations to do, those staff had no training or understanding of the legal side of thing because Musk got rid of the in house specialist legal team).

Musk is refusing to honour contracts and firing people for showing him facts, that's not a person you can ever expect to get any "handsome bounty" from as the chances are he's going to fire you for "failing" at an impossible task, or because if he fires you he can avoid that "handsome bounty".

And yes there are jobs that are 9-5, but the longer the hours you work the less productive you become and the more likely to make increasingly obvious but major mistakes you are, the human brain, like the muscles needs time to rest. There are very good reasons why pilots for example have extremely strict rules on the hours they are allowed to work, and how much rest (and type of rest) they must have before they start a flying day. IIRC pretty much every single study has shown that humans cannot maintain good cognitive function for more than a fairly limited number of hours, and needs a regular "change of pace" in addition to rest to keep working at it's best, and that the effect is cumulative so you might be ok for a few days of "extreme hardcore", but after a week or two you're failing and potentially doing less productive work in a 16 hour day than a 12 hour one.
It's one of the reasons the likes of Twitter and Facebook, Google etc all had so many "frivolous" things as "bonuses" and "incentives", yes they might have expected staff to work long hours, but they also understood (unlike Musk) how important it was to let the staff unwind, and if you could have them unwind/relax on site it meant they could be more productive (and also the reason they allow things like a day a week for personal projects, those "personal projects" help the people unwind, but also can work out to be more valuable long term than the assigned job, as they may be "personal" but if done on company time the company owns them).



When people say "they can work longer hours and do it faster" I always remember what someone once said (paraphrasing) "it doesn't matter how many women you get pregnant, it still takes around 9 months for the first baby".
 
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I think it's more likely they're under no illusion that the moment they fail because what the great and might Musk wants is impossible, or they have to try and explain reality to him they'll be fired, same if they try to explain to him that "yes you could do that, but it would break the law in multiple countries, and no I'm not willing to go to jail for you by putting my name on the paperwork" (Musk's personal lawyer was advising staff they could "self certify" stuff Twitter was under legal obligations to do, those staff had no training or understanding of the legal side of thing because Musk got rid of the in house specialist legal team).

Musk is refusing to honour contracts and firing people for showing him facts, that's not a person you can ever expect to get any "handsome bounty" from as the chances are he's going to fire you for "failing" at an impossible task, or because if he fires you he can avoid that "handsome bounty".

And yes there are jobs that are 9-5, but the longer the hours you work the less productive you become and the more likely to make increasingly obvious but major mistakes you are, because the human brain, like the muscles needs time to rest. There are very good reasons why pilots for example have extremely strict rules on the hours they are allowed to work, and how much rest (and type of rest) they must have before they start a flying day. IIRC pretty much every single study has shown that humans cannot maintain good cognitive function for more than a fairly limited number of hours, and needs a regular "change of pace" in addition to rest to keep working at it's best, and that the effect is cumulative so you might be ok for a few days of "extreme hardcore", but after a week or two you're failing.
It's one of the reasons the likes of Twitter and Facebook, Google etc all had so many "frivolous" things as "bonuses" and "incentives", yes they might have expected staff to work long hours, but they also understood (unlike Musk) how important it was to let the staff unwind, and if you could have them unwind/relax on site it meant they could be more productive (and also the reason they allow things like a day a week for personal projects, those "personal projects" help the people unwind, but also can work out to be more valuable long term than the assigned job, as they may be "personal" but if done on company time the company owns them).



When people say "they can work longer hours and do it faster" I always remember what someone once said (paraphrasing) "it doesn't matter how many women you get pregnant, it still takes around 9 months for the first baby".
I agree with basically all of this. And obviously the self-certifying/getting employees in trouble is outrageous (that is like start-up founder level risk/reward). But you only have to work with a few "high functioning" folk and most of this is just not true or a "tomorrow problem" (i.e. burn out). It is like comparing the staff McKinsey recruit to those who work for a charity. You know exactly what you are signing up to and you either keep up, or get out.

I also doubt the points made in your second paragraph are any where near as black and white. There will be a cost benefit to every decision; although I imagine Musk adds up the emotional/intangible with far greater clout than most leaders.
 

Elon Musk has deployed his 130 million-follower Twitter bullhorn to come to the rescue of a beleaguered cartoonist dumped by hundreds of newspapers across America for having delivered a virulent racist tirade.

The Twitter and Tesla chief responded with his own controversial thought stream over the weekend after the mass termination of the Dilbert comic strip from US newspaper titles. Its creator, Scott Adams, recently denigrated Black people as a “hate group”, advising white people to “just get the hell away” from them.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...y-us-newspapers-over-creators-racist-comments

“The media is racist,” was Musk’s response to the widespread decision to terminate the Dilbert strip. “For a very long time, US media was racist against non-white people, now they’re racist against whites and Asians.”

He went on to compare US media with elite educational institutions in America where he claimed the “same thing happened”.

It was also reported that Musk deleted a tweet in which he responded to a comment from Adams about his comic strip being dropped, saying, “What exactly are they complaining about?”

He is going to be the US president at some stage isnt he.
 
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He is going to be the US president at some stage isnt he.

He's certainly got age and mental faculties on his side compared to the current incumbent, that's for sure, if not, as Werewolf reminds us, the correct birthplace. I am not being unkind to the elderly chap in the White House in saying that, just realistic, Biden's plain not up to the job, especially in such challenging times.
 
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He's certainly got age and mental faculties on his side compared to the current incumbent, that's for sure, if not, as Werewolf reminds us, the correct birthplace. I am not being unkind to the elderly chap in the White House in saying that, just realistic, Biden's plain not up to the job, especially in such challenging times.

Better than the last idiot they had by a long mile.
 
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Hopefully that stock isn't twitter stock, and where will the bonuses come from? In 5 years if twitter pays off its debt? Twitter isnt Spacex, where people just want to be the first or whatver to advance human race. Twitter is a social network that is run by a man baby that appears to be more and more needing to surround himself with yes men. It's hardly impressive to work for that guy.

Do you think it holds more weight to say you worked under bill gates at Microsoft, or Elon Musk at Twitter?

.

It doesn't tend to matter too much what you've got on your CV once you have experience in tech (as an engineer anyway). They basically just care that you've got some experience and can pass their interview process. And interviews are very similar at almost all US tech companies, if you can get in to twitter you can get into MS/Amazon for example.

About stock/bonuses...I know at least some of them will adjust employee stock grants in order to keep comp in line with what the employee thought they were going to get, in the event the stock is worth less than at the time of the initial grant. Obviously if it's a loss making private company like Twitter then they might eventually run out of cash I suppose!

To be honest at this point though I strongly suspect many of Twitters remaining engineers are those that can't really leave i.e. they are on visas. Good engineers have options (current big tech hiring freezes aside) that provide both cash and good work life balance. No need to kill yourself working 80 hour weeks if you don't want to.
 
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Musk as president? That's the most hilarious thing I've read right after the cashless thread lol.
 
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You don't have to be born in the US but you have to be a natural born citizen, so you can be born aboard but one of your parents must be a US citizen.

Musk would be a terrible POTUS but they do have a record of electing bad choices to high office.
 
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