The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

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Roar87 said:
Having not heard of this whole 15 minute city thing and the concerns around it, they just seem to be around big tech gathering data mainly, and the potential for limiting people's ability to travel freely. Simply having access to basic utilities within a short walking distance obviously isn't bad. Removing the ability to own private transportation from citizens would be bad; but obviously we aren't there yet.. except in London where Sadiq Khan seems intent on pricing poor people out of the ability to own cars.
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Andy Burnham had a go and wasted a fortune on madcap schemes around Manchester. Most now shelved and a ridiculous waste of money.
 
VincentHanna said:
Then you can probably appreciate that the roads are ridiculously busy, it's quite polluted, and encouraging people not to use their cars when the public transport system is very good, is actually a good thing?
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It is, but the issue seems to be that the people being punished for that are basically people who can't afford a newer model car, or people being hit with charges they can't afford, effectively pricing them out of owning a private vehicle. It does seem to be that the solution to these problems seems to always affect poor people. If you're rich you can fly into London on your private jet and drive your Bugatti Veyron around central London no problem and simply pay all the relevant taxes.
 
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Though it's Labour who appear to be the public face of all these ulez type of payment systems it is the Tories that introduced all this lower emissions targets and told the administration's to figure out the best way to do it.

This came up during the Greater Manchester system debate. The government could disallow the charging method, or could say find a non-charging solution.

It's become a political football of who will carry the blame.
 
Roar87 said:
Having not heard of this whole 15 minute city thing and the concerns around it,
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Im going to be honest and say I find that very hard to believe that you didnt know before. Concidering the types that are freaking out over it. Very, very hard to believe you didnt know.

Very hard.

BowdonUK said:
It's become a political football of who will carry the blame.
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Yes but we know who will really get the blame dont we. Muslims via Sadiq Khan.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Im going to be honest and say I find that very hard to believe that you didnt know before. Concidering the types that are freaking out over it. Very, very hard to believe you didnt know.

Very hard.
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No one is freaking out over it though, you cited Jordan Peterson and he just basically went over the points I mentioned on a clip I watched, which related to Google trying to get permission for some city in Canada and them being denied, his points seemed quite reasonable and it was just a short talk about it. It wasn't some giant New World Order conspiracy theory that you'd like to pretend it was.
 
Roar87 said:
It is, but the issue seems to be that the people being punished for that are basically people who can't afford a newer model car, or people being hit with charges they can't afford, effectively pricing them out of owning a private vehicle. It does seem to be that the solution to these problems seems to always affect poor people. If you're rich you can fly into London on your private jet and drive your Bugatti Veyron around central London no problem and simply pay all the relevant taxes.
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But that's no different to any situation in life tbf. It made me chuckle once when one of my best friends (whose ex-husband is a billionaire) once said to me totally innocently "I've never found a problem in life that money can't solve" :p She wasn't being arrogant, she's one of the nicest people you'd ever know, but they do live in a different world to us.

But in relation to what you are talking about, then it is just about quantity, the amount of "poor" people with their old cars pumping out emissions are causing all the pollution in London, compared to the few Bugattis driving about.
 
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Roar87 said:
No one is freaking out over it though, you cited Jordan Peterson and he just basically went over the points I mentioned on a clip I watched, which related to Google trying to get permission for some city in Canada and them being denied, his points seemed quite reasonable and it was just a short talk about it. It wasn't some giant New World Order conspiracy theory that you'd like to pretend it was.
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The same people that organised the migrant centre protests are also organising anti 15 minute city protests. Far right wing groups are involved in it and yes they are freaking out about it.
 
Freakbro said:
But that's no different to any situation in life tbf. It made me chuckle once when one of my best friends (whose husband is a billionaire) once said to me totally innocently "I've never found a problem in life that money can't solve" :p She wasn't being arrogant, she's one of the nicest people you'd ever know, but they do live in a different world to us.

But in relation to what you are talking about, then it is just about quantity, the amount of "poor" people with their old cars pumping out emissions are causing all the pollution in London, compared to the few Bugattis driving about.
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Could we not just treat them equally rather than overly punishing people who can't afford to pay? It could be a toll based on the actual value of the car or something, then someone driving a £100,000 Range Rover would get a charge much higher than someone driving a second hand Vectra.
 
Roar87 said:
Could we not just treat them equally rather than overly punishing people who can't afford to pay? It could be a toll based on the actual value of the car or something, then someone driving a £100,000 Range Rover would get a charge much higher than someone driving a second hand Vectra.
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Maybe, but isn't the idea to get the older more polluting cars off the roads, rather than make a charge that is just an inconvenience and affordable to all, which won't reduce usage, well not to the same degree.
 
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Freakbro said:
Maybe, but isn't the idea to get the older more polluting cars off the roads, rather than make a charge that is just an inconvenience and affordable to all, which won't reduce usage, we'll not to the same degree.
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Ok, so the idea currently is that poor people can't drive and rich people can. You seem happy with that though.

Actually, not happy, just accepting that it's the natural order in life.
 
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Roar87 said:
Could we not just treat them equally rather than overly punishing people who can't afford to pay? It could be a toll based on the actual value of the car or something, then someone driving a £100,000 Range Rover would get a charge much higher than someone driving a second hand Vectra.
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So you want everyone to be treated equally but at the same time charge others more?

It is a toll its just that it is on certain polluting vehicles. Everyone is being treated the same.

You are thinking of a congestion charge.
 
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Roar87 said:
Ok, so the idea currently is that poor people can't drive and rich people can. You seem happy with that though.
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Poor people don't have cars, especially somewhere like London. You're talking about people with enough money to own a car (which is not poor people) but not enough to upgrade that car.
 
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Roar87 said:
Ok, so the idea currently is that poor people can't drive and rich people can. You seem happy with that though.
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Sigh, you always go to an extreme take don't you instead of having a sensible conversation, maybe you should just stick yo posting NPC memes?

Just looking at the ULEZ info in London

  • Petrol cars that meet the ULEZ standards are generally those first registered with the DVLA after 2005, although cars that meet the standards have been available since 2001
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So the car can be 18 yrs old and potentially up to 22 years old...

Pretty sure if someone can afford to run a car in the first place they'll be able to pick up a ULEZ compliant one.

Edit: And it seems they are taking into account "poor" people

Scrappage scheme​

Londoners receiving certain low-income or disability benefits can apply to the Mayor of London's £110 million scrappage scheme. Eligible applicants could receive a payment to scrap their vehicle, or choose a lower payment plus one or two TfL Annual Bus & Tram passes worth more than the payment alone.

London-based sole traders, micro-businesses (10 or fewer employees) and registered charities will also be able to apply to scrap or retrofit a van or minibus.
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That should make us both happy, eh Roar? ;)
 
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Tony Edwards said:
Khan gets the blame because he is muslim.
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Why did Burnham get the blame in Greater Manchester? We had the same situation up here. Though it's noticeable the lack of coverage we got compared to London.

Outside London gets a problem then it's regional. London gets a problem and it's a national crisis.
 
Well a lot of people were hating on Khan for knife crime figures, even though they were actually worse during some of Boris terms, and the police were asking for more resources from the Government in 2019:

www.bbc.co.uk

Policing resources at dangerously low levels, ex Scotland Yard chiefs warn

Five former Scotland Yard commissioners say resources are now "dangerously low".
www.bbc.co.uk

www.bbc.co.uk

Knife crime: Cressida Dick says violent crime rise linked to policing numbers

Met Police chief Cressida Dick's comments come after the PM insisted there was "no direct correlation".
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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