***The Pond Discussion Thread****

[NickK]

10 days since the new filter media was put in.. it looks off white but I noted that all the old foam blocks had dropped down to the base of the bio tank and stacked up against the output grill. So really need something in there soon to get it cycling.

I've not ordered the new air pump as I've been trying to decide if I get a XP-40 (£140) or an XP-60 (£198).. partly as I'm adopted northern so spending money is difficult I've compared lots and researched lots and these seem to be the best vs running costs and producing good output at up to 2 m depth (0.2 bar). The 40 will do about 20lpm at 2 meters, the 60 will do 39lpm. Sort of thinking also of using the excess as an air lift return allowing the pump to be switched off.
Just concerned if I get a 40, then end up buying another pump.. or getting a 60 and it turning everything into a jacuzzi. £10/year difference in running costs.

The drum is awesome. It removes so much crap and free floating fine filaments of algae. It's now down flushing when really needed. So it may go the entire day.. then over night have a couple of flushes as the fish are more active and stir up anything on the bottom.

 

[NickK]

Been measuring up and doing some costings etc for the new pond..

As I can't order anything.. I decided to model the flow of water around the new pond using a computer - computational fluid dynamics:



Almost there, just need to put a few things in - like the bottom drain, midwater return etc but the 3D volume and cells from a manually defined mesh is working.


Too geeky?

 

[Doobedoo]

Just a quick question to you knowledgable folk.

I have a pond in the garden that has about 9 or 10 goldfish, nothing fancy like some of you just a meter squared 600mm deep size.

I wouldn’t mind something that’ll feed on the bottom or the bits of algae that grows around the sides.

What should I be looking for that wouldn’t mess up the balance or upset the fish that are already there?

 

[easyrider]

Just a quick question to you knowledgable folk.

I have a pond in the garden that has about 9 or 10 goldfish, nothing fancy like some of you just a meter squared 600mm deep size.

I wouldn’t mind something that’ll feed on the bottom or the bits of algae that grows around the sides.

What should I be looking for that wouldn’t mess up the balance or upset the fish that are already there?

http://www.carpco.co.uk/10cm-green-tench-p-59.html

 

[Street]

I've been using the last week of good weather to finally start sorting the top of the garden! We moved in about 5 years ago and it's been low down on the list of jobs to do. It gets the most sun in the evenings, but was a bit of a mess of plants and not really a usable space. The pond is about 60cm deep, had a woefully under powered filter and pump with no plant life and about 10 fish. Over the years a few of the fish have died, but it looks like we have 2 koi, 3 goldfish and 2 shubunkin left.

The plan was to strip out all the rubbish at the top, make the pond bigger and lay a patio so we can actually use the space. Annoyingly, around the pond it seems like there were the remains of an old building, so there was lots of bricks and concrete that needed breaking up. I've spent the last week clearing it out and roughly levelled the area. I've borrowed my parents old filter and pump and it's cleared the thick pea green water slightly so we can actually see the fish now!

Currently the pond is 1.8x1.4x0.6m and I want to expand it to 2.6x2.2xm. It won't be massive but should give the fish a bit more space and will have shelves so I can get some plants in there too. I've ordered a paddling pool for the fish as a temporary home and the liner should be here next week. Once that's here, I can break up the remaining walls and keep digging! I've got down to 70cm currently, but have hit a very old land drain going diagonally underneath. I'm fairly sure it's redundant as it's cracked anyway but I'm reluctant to remove it so the deeper area will have to be where the existing pond is.

 

[easyrider]

I've been using the last week of good weather to finally start sorting the top of the garden! We moved in about 5 years ago and it's been low down on the list of jobs to do. It gets the most sun in the evenings, but was a bit of a mess of plants and not really a usable space. The pond is about 60cm deep, had a woefully under powered filter and pump with no plant life and about 10 fish. Over the years a few of the fish have died, but it looks like we have 2 koi, 3 goldfish and 2 shubunkin left.

The plan was to strip out all the rubbish at the top, make the pond bigger and lay a patio so we can actually use the space. Annoyingly, around the pond it seems like there were the remains of an old building, so there was lots of bricks and concrete that needed breaking up. I've spent the last week clearing it out and roughly levelled the area. I've borrowed my parents old filter and pump and it's cleared the thick pea green water slightly so we can actually see the fish now!

Currently the pond is 1.8x1.4x0.6m and I want to expand it to 2.6x2.2xm. It won't be massive but should give the fish a bit more space and will have shelves so I can get some plants in there too. I've ordered a paddling pool for the fish as a temporary home and the liner should be here next week. Once that's here, I can break up the remaining walls and keep digging! I've got down to 70cm currently, but have hit a very old land drain going diagonally underneath. I'm fairly sure it's redundant as it's cracked anyway but I'm reluctant to remove it so the deeper area will have to be where the existing pond is.

Cool project..Keep posting pics

How big is your garden?

 

[Street]

Cool project..Keep posting pics

How big is your garden?

It's roughly 10x30m in total but the entire top part had gone wild as the previous owners were elderly and then we didn't touch it when we moved in either. Because of the angle of the garden and the fact that our neighbour has a few big trees, it means that part is the best place to sit in the evenings. Although my neighbour caught me on Monday to say they were having someone in to prune the trees which is a result as I was going to offer to pay to have them done myself!

The liner has turned up, but no sign of the pool yet. It's hammering down though so probably not the best weather for digging this week anyway. I was hoping the pool would be first so I could get a bit of rain water in it.

 

[NickK]

I've been using the last week of good weather to finally start sorting the top of the garden! We moved in about 5 years ago and it's been low down on the list of jobs to do. It gets the most sun in the evenings, but was a bit of a mess of plants and not really a usable space. The pond is about 60cm deep, had a woefully under powered filter and pump with no plant life and about 10 fish. Over the years a few of the fish have died, but it looks like we have 2 koi, 3 goldfish and 2 shubunkin left.

The plan was to strip out all the rubbish at the top, make the pond bigger and lay a patio so we can actually use the space. Annoyingly, around the pond it seems like there were the remains of an old building, so there was lots of bricks and concrete that needed breaking up. I've spent the last week clearing it out and roughly levelled the area. I've borrowed my parents old filter and pump and it's cleared the thick pea green water slightly so we can actually see the fish now!

Currently the pond is 1.8x1.4x0.6m and I want to expand it to 2.6x2.2xm. It won't be massive but should give the fish a bit more space and will have shelves so I can get some plants in there too. I've ordered a paddling pool for the fish as a temporary home and the liner should be here next week. Once that's here, I can break up the remaining walls and keep digging! I've got down to 70cm currently, but have hit a very old land drain going diagonally underneath. I'm fairly sure it's redundant as it's cracked anyway but I'm reluctant to remove it so the deeper area will have to be where the existing pond is.

Cool

You can use paddling pool for storing temporarily but careful to mature the pond eco system other wise you may find that the pond isn't going support the fish etc and the ammonia & nitrite levels go up (they're bad/lethal for fish). If you read up about new pond syndrome.

However that looks like a decent project

2.2x2.6x1m average and it's 5720 litres. When you look at filters with koi you will want a filter than can handle much more than that (also sponges filters start becoming a chore at that size).

 

[NickK]

http://www.carpco.co.uk/10cm-green-tench-p-59.html

Agreed, and you will probably not even see them.

we put a GoPro down and it turned out we have 7 green tench in the pond alongside the 4 koi - no wonder the pond is over crowded!

They normally root around in the mess at the bottom of the pond however mine can be seen sunbathing and even taking food from the surface (especially near lillypads).

 

[Street]

Cool

You can use paddling pool for storing temporarily but careful to mature the pond eco system other wise you may find that the pond isn't going support the fish etc and the ammonia & nitrite levels go up (they're bad/lethal for fish). If you read up about new pond syndrome.

However that looks like a decent project

2.2x2.6x1m average and it's 5720 litres. When you look at filters with koi you will want a filter than can handle much more than that (also sponges filters start becoming a chore at that size).

That's the problem, I don't want the fish in the paddling pool for too long, although equally, I don't want to kill them by putting them in the pond too fast either! I wasn't planning on getting any more koi, and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure the two I think are koi are actually koi.. They don't have any barbels around their mouths, however they don't look anything like the other goldfish either. They're at least 12 inches long, quite streamlined and a yellowy white in colour but it's hard getting a good photo as the water is so green.



I'm going to run my parents old box as a temporary measure, but I've been looking at the bigger Kockney Koi black boxes as a longer term solution. Is there anything else worth looking at?

 

[NickK]

That's the problem, I don't want the fish in the paddling pool for too long, although equally, I don't want to kill them by putting them in the pond too fast either! I wasn't planning on getting any more koi, and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure the two I think are koi are actually koi.. They don't have any barbels around their mouths, however they don't look anything like the other goldfish either. They're at least 12 inches long, quite streamlined and a yellowy white in colour but it's hard getting a good photo as the water is so green.

I'm going to run my parents old box as a temporary measure, but I've been looking at the bigger Kockney Koi black boxes as a longer term solution. Is there anything else worth looking at?

The green pond algae will keep the blanket weed at bay (simply through light starvation). So be prepared for the inevitable blanketweed. The sunlight will penetrate and the shallow water will warm too.

In reality having a pond is more "keeping water" than it is keeping the fish inside. If you want a clear "pretty pond" then possibly a couple of things would help keep the maintenance of the pond down.

0) Air. An air pump can do a number of things: (1) make the pond better for the fish with O2, (2) make the box filter work better by supporting better levels of bacteria that process the waste and (3) in the pond the air column can circulate the water allowing the pump to work better in clearing muck.

1) Fit a mechanical filter in front of the box filter - then the box will simply be a biological filter with the mats inside. This could be a "Sieve" which is low maintenance and only has one moving part. It's screen is microns in size and the the crap will simply slide off it and into waste. You could use the waste on the garden.

£198 cheapie sieve: https://www.cotswoldkoi.co.uk/produ...MI19nRpL-P6QIV1IBQBh2NbQUeEAQYASABEgLCh_D_BwE

It's mesh is 250 micron (0.25mm) so not as effective as a 58micron drum filter but it won't block easily (when it does the water then pushes the muck off the screen). It'll do 4000GPH (18000LPH) and being compact it's not too large.

The purpose of this is to stop the sponges blocking up with crap.

2) A box filter can then operate as the bio.. unless you want a bio filter - the normal one is a bed filter (moving or static). However there is another form "anoxic" which is good but not many people use as they shout witchcraft and get the pitchforks out. It's science but it doesn't mean sales of expensive equipment. The rate of water through them is slow but they don't require much maintenance. It will get rid of your ammonia, nitrite and more importantly nitrate (as N2 gas into the atmosphere).

3) Fit a water level float - otherwise if the filter clogs and it's pumping water.. it will empty the pond. I know I have had a similar issue.

4) Fish grow = more poop and the need for larger filters.


I've had a 1700l pond for about 7 years with two pressure filters (one quoted as 9000l pond size - a joke to be honest). I inherited it. I've seen the pain that sponge filters are and spent every other day cleaning the filter sponges out after they blocked. This is why I suggest a sieve as a minimum in front of the box filter.

I'm now planning a 9-10,000l pond rather than sell the fish. Recently I found I have 7 green tench which I thought were goldfish hybrids but suspected after 7 years they weren't.


The fish in the photo may be goldfish hybrid, however goldfish don't tend to live very long - 5-10 years max so you may have golden orfe.

 

[Doobedoo]

Agreed, and you will probably not even see them.

we put a GoPro down and it turned out we have 7 green tench in the pond alongside the 4 koi - no wonder the pond is over crowded!

They normally root around in the mess at the bottom of the pond however mine can be seen sunbathing and even taking food from the surface (especially near lillypads).

Nice one thanks, will look into it once everything blows over.

 

[Street]

The green pond algae will keep the blanket weed at bay (simply through light starvation). So be prepared for the inevitable blanketweed. The sunlight will penetrate and the shallow water will warm too.

In reality having a pond is more "keeping water" than it is keeping the fish inside. If you want a clear "pretty pond" then possibly a couple of things would help keep the maintenance of the pond down.

0) Air. An air pump can do a number of things: (1) make the pond better for the fish with O2, (2) make the box filter work better by supporting better levels of bacteria that process the waste and (3) in the pond the air column can circulate the water allowing the pump to work better in clearing muck.

1) Fit a mechanical filter in front of the box filter - then the box will simply be a biological filter with the mats inside. This could be a "Sieve" which is low maintenance and only has one moving part. It's screen is microns in size and the the crap will simply slide off it and into waste. You could use the waste on the garden.

£198 cheapie sieve: https://www.cotswoldkoi.co.uk/produ...MI19nRpL-P6QIV1IBQBh2NbQUeEAQYASABEgLCh_D_BwE

It's mesh is 250 micron (0.25mm) so not as effective as a 58micron drum filter but it won't block easily (when it does the water then pushes the muck off the screen). It'll do 4000GPH (18000LPH) and being compact it's not too large.

The purpose of this is to stop the sponges blocking up with crap.

2) A box filter can then operate as the bio.. unless you want a bio filter - the normal one is a bed filter (moving or static). However there is another form "anoxic" which is good but not many people use as they shout witchcraft and get the pitchforks out. It's science but it doesn't mean sales of expensive equipment. The rate of water through them is slow but they don't require much maintenance. It will get rid of your ammonia, nitrite and more importantly nitrate (as N2 gas into the atmosphere).

3) Fit a water level float - otherwise if the filter clogs and it's pumping water.. it will empty the pond. I know I have had a similar issue.

4) Fish grow = more poop and the need for larger filters.


I've had a 1700l pond for about 7 years with two pressure filters (one quoted as 9000l pond size - a joke to be honest). I inherited it. I've seen the pain that sponge filters are and spent every other day cleaning the filter sponges out after they blocked. This is why I suggest a sieve as a minimum in front of the box filter.

I'm now planning a 9-10,000l pond rather than sell the fish. Recently I found I have 7 green tench which I thought were goldfish hybrids but suspected after 7 years they weren't.


The fish in the photo may be goldfish hybrid, however goldfish don't tend to live very long - 5-10 years max so you may have golden orfe.

Thanks! Gives me more to look into.

That sounds like my pond with a tiny little pressure filter fed by 15mm pipes. When we moved in, I noticed the water level was dropping and worked out the plastic pipes feeding the filter had cracked so I had to replace them. Then the pump burnt out so that needed replacing too. Not long after that, the electrics started tripping in the house. I narrowed it down to the filter so that's been running with no UV as well! I don't want to spend a massive amount on it, but equally I'd rather do it well first time round to save hassle in the future.

It does look more like an orfe than other fish, but it's less orange in colour than all the pictures I've seen. All the fish are at least 6 years old so they're doing well considering the water quality is probably pretty poor!

 

[NickK]

Thanks! Gives me more to look into.

That sounds like my pond with a tiny little pressure filter fed by 15mm pipes. When we moved in, I noticed the water level was dropping and worked out the plastic pipes feeding the filter had cracked so I had to replace them. Then the pump burnt out so that needed replacing too. Not long after that, the electrics started tripping in the house. I narrowed it down to the filter so that's been running with no UV as well! I don't want to spend a massive amount on it, but equally I'd rather do it well first time round to save hassle in the future.

It does look more like an orfe than other fish, but it's less orange in colour than all the pictures I've seen. All the fish are at least 6 years old so they're doing well considering the water quality is probably pretty poor!

I currently have pond #2's filter maturing on that little 1700l pond.. variable pumps are awesome. The new filter can cycle the entire pond in 4 minutes and 35 seconds however the variable pump is set to the right through put for the pond.. The filter will take a while to mature by which time I should have the new pond dug and built.

The drum really really changed the quality of the pond experience. The water is crystal clear. The only down side is that (a) the fish can see everything and (b) wildlife that gets through the pump gets filtered to waste. The pond has a darwinism effect on the local tadpole population.

 

[Street]

The paddling pool finally turned up a couple days ago so it's been treated and the fish are getting used to their new home while I dig out the pond. The cats are suddenly very interested in the fish so I've had to put the net over it!





My new pump and filter have arrived along with all the pipework. I just need some solvent weld now but that's in the post. The new filter box is massive compared to the one I've borrowed! I over specced everything as I figured it would be better to have spare capacity and not have the filter struggling to cope this time round.

Hopefully I can get it dug out today as the sooner I can get the liner in the better really.

 

[Street]

After a long day of digging it's taking shape! Annoyingly the drainage pipe I found runs diagonally underneath the deepest section and although it's very old, I'm reluctant to disturb it as it's probably still doing something. It's only clay pipe butted together so I might just lift a section and see if it's silted up. If it is, I can probably just remove it as it's not doing anything anyway. If I can't get rid of it, it means I can only get down to 80cm instead of the 1m that I wanted to get to. At least the bulk of the digging is done now anyway so the next few days will be easier!

 

[NickK]

Just keep an eye on the temperature of the water in the paddling pool.

That build is looking good

 

[NickK]

Well we 'agreed' on the dimensions, that some of the trees and shrubs will get transplanted etc.

The initial final size of the pond is 11,900 litres - and that's with adding 21 cm to the filter pit to make some more room. My view is anything over 10,000 litres is a bonus.

The new pond dimensions:



The new pond cross section
70 cm above ground level, approx meter under ground. The water level point is very important for the gravity feed for the filters- they have to sit at correct heights.

There will be an infinity window space (2000x600) which means the glass will have to be 2200x700 and over 30mm thick.



As I have to piumb a water line in a trench, then I figure that the waste line can go in there too - 110mm waste on a slope over 13-16m. I'll have to put in a conduit for a power cable too but that can go via the garage which needs power too.

So next step (apart from finishing the shower) is ordering the bits for the base.. the bottom drain, the 4" pressure pipe piping that will be laid into the slab. Damp membrane, sheet rebar and timber for making formers for the slab. Then once almost finished with the dig - order a pour of C35.

The slab will have footings that are 2' deep for the walls, but the rest will be enough 25cm onto compacted hard core. The bottom drain will sit on concrete (stops the water from popping the base of the plastic out.

Then once poured I will probably lay the filter pit floor slab using barrow loads.

 

[Street]

Jesus, that's going to be massive. Looking forward to seeing the build. Sounds like a lot of work though!

Mine is lined and filled. Getting the liner in was frustrating as it was so damn big and heavy, trying to get minimal folds was a faff. I've measured it and it's around 4000l in total. It probably took a good five hours to fill at least. Now I've got a few tonnes of sub base coming in the week that will need shifting from the front of the house, through the garage and up the garden. I'm not looking forward to that! I was hoping I could get on and plump the pump in properly tomorrow but I'm still waiting on the solvent weld to arrive.

 

[NickK]

The first plumbing to be ordered will be for the pipework laid into the slab:
* JBR bottom drain 4” water 1” air
* 4” pressure pipe 6m
* 1” pressure pipe 5m
* 4” sweeping 90 pressure pipe
* 1” 90
* solvent cleaner
* solvent weld
* 4” ball valve pressure pipe
* 4” bung for water testing

Water return on the opposite front right of the pond. Rather than go around the pond, this goes under and up the front left side. A skimmer will be back right. The main Mid water returns will be left back and water blade. Hence this only needs to be small diameter as it’s nudging the water
* 2” pressure pipe 8m
* 2x 90 bends

One thing I may do is put this mid water too but pointing down or up. The reason for raising it is that if there’s a leak then the pond at water ground level is 7500l safe haven.

After that it’s 2.5” piping and the main returns are 2.5”.

A wide mouth skimmer modified for 4”.