The quest for bread.

arknor said:
try stretching and folding the dough over a few times so its like layers inside, should help to get some big air like ciabatta
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I am going to change which recipe I use but will also try your suggestion.

Made some soda bread over the weekend, which I pretty much have nailed now (Irish family I guess)

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was lush when still warm with a bit* of butter.

*a lot.
 
I just can't seem to get the bread the consistency I want. The taste is great this time again and I think the crust is what I am after but inside it just isn't producing the big bubbles I am after.

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what was the flour mix - the 50:50 you mentioned in other thread - I have never tried a bakers high wholemeal content sourdough - if they make them

Crust is up there - bread will have a long liefspan (if your teeth survive) -
what was (theoretical) oven temp, I think fan ovens can be pretty vicious.

edit subsequently saw this on my favourite bread site
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/100-whole-wheat-sourdough/
The finer the milling, especially for whole wheat flour, the better the result as there will be less larger bran particles to shred your gluten structure during mixing and folding. Until I’m able to procure my own mill, so I can grind at my own desired granularity, I’m slave to the large mills and their grind options. That said, there are things we can do to help prevent the bran from wreaking havoc on our dough: sifting. I’ll dig more into this later in this entry.
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so may justify the bacheldre fine I mentioned

edit2 : need to try the razor blade thing in link - never seen that before
 
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Thanks for your reply and a link to that amazing site! :)

The crust looks really hard but is actually not too bad. My wife and her best mate are here today and they have eaten half of it already with no complaints so I think the flavour isn't too bad.

The starter is made with organic wholemeal, the rest of the loaf is made with Canadian strong flour. maybe its 20/80?? at a guess.

Oven temp was 240c which was too hot I think though it was the prescribed temp.

I am going to study that site now and get some ideas as I have a starter ready to go and some lovely homemade butter!
 
What hydration are you using? A higher hydration dough will have a more open crumb. The wholemeal flour won't help but as that's in your starter there's not much you can do. I also recommend the stretch and fold as has been mentioned already. Instead of punching back the dough at the end of the bulk fermentation you fold it over on itself a few times at 30 minute to one hour intervals during, being careful not to degas too much. This would help you achieve larger and more irregular holes.
 
So I started a new starter with a bit of the old (so not really a new starter!?) but with the older wholemeal starter I fed the new starter with strong white flour.

Made a new dough and let it prove for a long time as it's quite chilly in the house, punched it down and let it prove again. I took advice from Bobbyspangles and got some folds in at the punchdown stage and ended up with the most amazingly light and difficult to handle bread dough I have ever worked on. It was so full of air and hard to handle that I had to pour it onto the baking stone and it went quite flat. Well, actually very flat but once the oven door was closed the bread stood up a bit and this was the result.

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Best taste and texture so far but was a little under in the middle, I could have left it in the oven for a few more mins but hey ho!

Going to make another today and prove it in the office where I am working from where the heating is on so I won't have to use up so much time.
 
Looks like a step in the right direction. Spreading when turned out on the baking stone could be too high hydration or from inadequate shaping. I just found this excellent video which shows the process from start to finish and explains the stretch and folds and it's purpose especially well.

 
Hi Tone, post up a few pics of your dough before you knock it back, one (and generally the main) thing the French guys in work will always say is the most important is keeping the "skin" of the dough totally intact as much as you can. If I can have a look perhaps I could advise?
 
So lego are your guys entering the new channel 4 professional 'creme de la creme' bake-off ?

my limited experience I would have said over hydration - I am a bit lax in maintaining a constant flour:water ratio in the mother sourdough culture and
also with respect to measuring out this for the overnight ferment, I usually do it in tbs as opposed to scales say, so think that can change hydration by 5-10%,
not even speaking of changing the wholemeal flour ratio or the types of flour.


.... picked up some khorasan flour today so will be trying some soda bread with ~20% of that .
 
Hi guys,

Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been a little MIA.

For Christmas the mrs got me some proper proving baskets and today I had another go at baking a loaf. Started it last night, proved overnight and this was the result.

8yInLNMl.jpg - nice round loaf, looks flat but it isn't. Camera angle was off.
WTmOnNAl.jpg - end slice
j7ETLWZl.jpg - slices going in from the end.

What I think I learnt is this;

1. my oven is hotter than it thinks it is.
2. I need a lower temp for longer
3. remember to slice the dough as I turn it out onto the stone in the oven.

This one tastes really good. The crust is really nice and crisp but a little overdone.

Onwards and upwards!

Tone
 
Started a new batch of starters a few weeks back, as it's bad luck not to name them I went with

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Up first today was chewy, if I'm honest I totally over hydrated this, plus I'm trying to nail a method that can be used in a busy kitchen. I'm very surprised that this one bounced back up (It was like a soup, I was almost pouring it into the banneton)

fvdilQi.jpg

Jouqa


I almost turned the oven off after a few minutes as the dough completely collapsed and spread out like a pancake but a few minutes later it came to life.

I finished with this, the crust was quite soft but I'll put that down to the level of hydration and I had the oven set at a 70% mix (should have dropped it down) Overall though I'm happy for my first go in a while, I have a Han batch currently on an overnight in the fridge, so fingers crossed for the morning

7KFPSqD.jpg

Jouqa


(This batch was a mix of Organic wholegrain and a T65 white flour)
 
They are sourdough starters yes ? or from yeast ? what was the difference between them. ?
I have kept a single starter running, since it was not always easy to get one to catch, and I also thought they may refine themselves as a single stronger strain.

Interesting to see the term t65 too, is that commercial flour ?
- used to buy that in France, supposedly lower in protein/gluten so gets bigger bubbles, rather than the stronger white flours I find in UK supermarkets, it might have enhancers in it too.
 
No yeast, they were started using organic wholegrain flour (75 grans for luke, then 50grams + 25grams of another flour for Han and Chewy) I just wanted to see if it made much difference in the initial feeding stage)

The T65 is imported, it will have a higher protein/gluten level than an "all-purpose flour" (We use a T45 for our everyday day all purpose) You'll find a lot of French baguette recipes will use a T65 due to it's strength and the darker crust it produces.

There are no enhancers, in the T65 we get, but there's a myriad of options when it comes to that. As an example, we use 3 different T55 flours (one for croissant, one for genoise and another for certain breeds (pain de mie ect) Each flour is slightly different and is better suited to certain jobs.
 
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