The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

[Nexus18]

I would have told you numerous times that RT just isn't worth the performance hit or price at the moment. And it's still not, that's probably why you are still on a 3080. When the performance is there in the low/mid range GPUs things will change.
If we all had unlimited funds, we would just buy a 4090 and crank everything up but that's not the reality for most gamers.

I even gave you a list of games that I was looking forward to with RT. We have crossed a threshold we are starting to see games that started development after the release of the PS5/XB and devs are starting to utilize RT only and are only scratching the surface of what might be possible to achieve.
But when the complete transition to RT only happens, you'll have to consider that the average gamer still won't "care" about RT. It will be turned on and they won't even know about it....

The concept of time also seems to be lost on you, You've been banging the same drum for about 4 years now. I lost count of the number of posters telling you it will be a year or two before it changes and devs/game engines start to tip in favour of RT.
I'm expecting that to happen towards the end of this year (probably aligned with the next round of GPUs) as more and more games (like spiderman 2 and Avatar) and games with UE5.X get released. But even then, you seem to be happy enough with software lumen which doesn't take advantage of the dedicated hardware in your GPU.


Anyway, I'm off to mumsnet to see what they think about F1 2024 raster implementation.

And again, what about metro ee, avatar and spiderman 2 RT (and plenty other games out there that run well with RT) examples? You seem to think every game with any rt will run like cp 2077, aw 2 maxed out with pt.....

I'm still on a 3080 because aside from CP 2077 and AW 2 maxed out, the 3080 has handled RT just lovely with dlss quality, this is why I am still on a 3080 and because as we all know, nvidia took the **** with pricing for 4080 on launch (the only real worthwhile upgrade along with a 4090) and now with the revised pricing, it's pointless, blackwell will hopefully be better and either way, I'll probably be getting one since pretty much for the games I care for and play, they all have RT now and I fancy an upgrade because games are not running at an fps level I would like (not even a 4090 is hitting levels I would be fully happy with in newer titles tbh) and I am not making the most of my 175hz refresh display, regardless of RT or not, plenty of raster only games which run worse than games with rt out there....

But when the complete transition to RT only happens, you'll have to consider that the average gamer still won't "care" about RT. It will be turned on and they won't even know about it....

Which I can't wait for as these "long live raster" posts will finally die and gamers can get actual next gen visuals.

And me banging on about it has proved correct given how majority of titles (that aren't some random small time titles launched on steam by one man team or old ported titles from ps 4 era) are coming out with some form of RT, I said from the get go that raster effects would start to be non existent as more devs start to priortize rt and well that's firmly cementing itself to be true now, people have been in denial about me pointing this out that most newer titles from the last couple of years have been using RT and when I ask which titles they refer to, they refer me to steam playlist of older games that came out years ago

People said it'll be another decade until rt becomes implemented more often and raster would still be the focus and well here we are with another title where raster effects are awful (sorry, maybe "gimped"?), it's ending up more and more used, raster is getting less attention by devs as evidenced, loads of games are using UE 5+ now and using lumen, ubisoft snowdrop engine is now RT only (and their future games will all be on this engine), insominiac dropping raster and so on and so on but I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me that the steam most played games still don't have RT etc. I still stand by my main point I have always made though that the true shift will happen with next gen consoles, as in, for us seeing more metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar examples, until then, it'll be mostly the RT on top but as shown, raster effects won't be getting much love.

I'll always much rather the choice be provided to enable and use hardware RT mode be there to allow people to get the best experience for their hardware but like I said, software RT such as lumen is a much welcome step over raster any day of the week. PS. Avatar/snowdrop engine uses hardware RT mode when dedicated hardware is detected and if not, it falls back to software based so we may yet see an update to UE to do something similar without devs having to do much on their end and either way, given amd are prioritizing RT supposedly with their next gen, this may happen sooner than later.

And glowing assets, raster lighting will make objects in front of the light indirectly glow behind the object as if the light source was inside the object, devs can manually fix this but due to the number of assets in games they will miss many so this always happens in raster games and it's super annoying


Like this. Sun is lighting the scene but the container assets are lit up from the opposite side as if the sun light is going right through the asset

Yup things like this are highly game immersion breaking once you know what to look for and coming from RT.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

And again, what about metro ee, avatar and spiderman 2 RT (and plenty other games out there that run well with RT) examples?

I mentioned the importance of avatar and spiderman 2. Metro EE is irrelevant as it was a re-release. You also like to refer to these type of games as "RT lite" and "AMD optimised". Maybe if you were more positive about these things people would be more receptive of your "RT enthusiasm"

You seem to think every game with any rt will run like cp 2077, aw 2 maxed out with pt.....

I clearly did not say that, you must have me mistaken with some random youtube commenter

I'm still on a 3080 because aside from CP 2077 and AW 2 maxed out, the 3080 has handled RT just lovely with dlss quality, this is why I am still on a 3080 and because as we all know, nvidia took the **** with pricing for 4080 on launch (the only real worthwhile upgrade along with a 4090) and now with the revised pricing, it's pointless, blackwell will hopefully be better and either way, I'll probably be getting one since pretty much for the games I care for and play, they all have RT now and I fancy an upgrade because games are not running at an fps level I would like (not even a 4090 is hitting levels I would be fully happy with in newer titles tbh) and I am not making the most of my 175hz refresh display, regardless of RT or not, plenty of raster only games which run worse than games with rt out there....

Exactly paying over the odds for extra RT performance just isnt worth it during the early stages of the transition. Things will change over the next few years when the game engines catch up along with the hardware at the low/mid range price points and probably a refresh of both consoles.

Which I can't wait for as these "long live raster" posts will finally die and gamers can get actual next gen visuals.

Like liverpool fans claiming every year was their year until eventually they won the premier league, eventually time will prove you right. But you'll realize shortly after that nobody really gives a s*** and life continues on as normal.

And me banging on about it has proved correct given how majority of titles (that aren't some random small time titles launched on steam by one man team or old ported titles from ps 4 era) are coming out with some form of RT, I said from the get go that raster effects would start to be non existent as more devs start to priortize rt and well that's firmly cementing itself to be true now, people have been in denial about me pointing this out that most newer titles from the last couple of years have been using RT and when I ask which titles they refer to, they refer me to steam playlist of older games that came out years ago

Again no concept of the length time it has taken to reach this point. Very few said it would never happen and if they did they well on the extreme side. Most said it would take a few years after the new consoles and here we are.....

People said it'll be another decade until rt becomes implemented more often and raster would still be the focus and well here we are with another title where raster effects are awful (sorry, maybe "gimped"?), it's ending up more and more used, raster is getting less attention by devs as evidenced, loads of games are using UE 5+ now and using lumen, ubisoft snowdrop engine is now RT only (and their future games will all be on this engine), insominiac dropping raster and so on and so on but I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me that the steam most played games still don't have RT etc. I still stand by my main point I have always made though that the true shift will happen with next gen consoles, as in, for us seeing more metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar examples, until then, it'll be mostly the RT on top but as shown, raster effects won't be getting much love.

Yes here we are. Can you understand the differences or will your brain not allow it? If someone said a few years ago that raster was "gimped" to make RT look better they might have been right as the game would have started development with no RT. However now we are in a different position. Game engines are starting to be tuned for RT effects and raster is starting to be phased out... Its amazing what time does. And yes the roll out of next gen consoles or a console refresh will be another step towards raster being phased out. That will take time though......

I'll always much rather the choice be provided to enable and use hardware RT mode be there to allow people to get the best experience for their hardware but like I said, software RT such as lumen is a much welcome step over raster any day of the week. PS. Avatar/snowdrop engine uses hardware RT mode when dedicated hardware is detected and if not, it falls back to software based so we may yet see an update to UE to do something similar without devs having to do much on their end and either way, given amd are prioritizing RT supposedly with their next gen, this may happen sooner than later.

I agree lumen offers both SW (cpu) and HW options as far as I know. The developers of hellblade 2 chose not to release with the HW option. You don't need to PS me about Avatar and snowdrop we've discussed it before. AMD shifting focus to RT was always going to happen eventually remember your old friend time?

 

[Nexus18]

I mentioned the importance of avatar and spiderman 2. Metro EE is irrelevant as it was a re-release. You also like to refer to these type of games as "RT lite" and "AMD optimised"


I clearly did not say that, you must have me mistaken with some random youtube commenter


Exactly paying over the odds for extra RT performance just isnt worth it during the early stages of the transition. Things will change over the next few years when the game engines catch up along with the hardware at the low/mid range price points and proably a refresh of both consoles.


Like liverpool fans claiming every year was their year until eventually they won the premier league, eventually time will prove you right. But you'll realize shortly after that nobody really gives a s*** and life continues on as normal.

Again no concept of the length time it has taken to reach this point. Very few said it would never happen and if they did they well on the extreme side. Most said it would take a few years after the new consoles and here we are.....


Yes here we are. Can you understand the differences or will your brain not allow it? If someone said a few years ago that raster was "gimped" to make RT look better they might have been right as the game would have started development with no RT. However now we are in a different position. Game engines are starting to be tuned for RT effects and raster is starting to be phased out... Its amazing what time does.

They're RT lite in the grand scheme of things but that doesn't change the fact that they are heavier RT than other "RT lite" games such as fc 6, riftbreaker and so on and also, the most important point.... no fallback to raster....

Comments such as:

I would have told you numerous times that RT just isn't worth the performance hit or price at the moment

Insinuate that you refer to cp 2077, aw 2 levels of perf when maxed out. As mentioned, plenty of rt games out there which run well on 3060 and above gpus. Console level hardware equilvalent to a 2070s seem to do just fine with metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar....

Exactly paying over the odds for extra RT performance just isnt worth it during the early stages of the transition.

Nice way to try and reword my post to make it out like I don't think extra RT is worth paying for You missed the key point, I have/had no need to pay a considerable sum when the 3080 has handled everything flawlessly except for AW 2 and CP 2077 PT (in fact, thanks to amd and frame gen mod the 3080 would handle them just fine now though But still as said, I've got one of the best gaming displays which I want to get the best from and not even a 4090 would fully achieve this regardless of rt). Depends on the gamer, for me, I've been enjoying the RT evolution for past 3 years with my games and it's only getting better every year, next stage is for more PT, heavier RT effects and higher FPS, just as has happened with RT and PT adoption, this will only become more and more common going forward.

Like liverpool fans claiming every year was their year until eventually they won the premier league, eventually time will prove you right. But you'll realize shortly after that nobody really gives a s*** and life continues on as normal.

And like I have always said, people clearly have no understanding of how new tech gets introduced and legacy versions phased out, most think you can just flip the switch and job done, we're in rt/pt only era, the way things are progressing is exactly how I said it would go The main vocal ones who seem to get their panties in a twist over RT are the ones who can't run it or/and dislike nvidia/favour amd and you know I'm right on this as we have seen time and time before when it comes to amd and nvidia strengths i.e. the hypocrisy and irony of gamers - https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/amd-fsr-3-0-ugly-truth-pc-gamers/

Again no concept of the length time it has taken to reach this point. Very few said it would never happen and if they did they well on the extreme side. Most said it would take a few years after the new consoles and here we are.....

Define few years? It's been the case for at least the past 2 years, people just like to keep their fingers in ears and only look at the old games, heck reminds me of the people listing games that didn't have rt and they were released before the 20xx even came out

Yes here we are. Can you understand the differences or will your brain not allow it? If someone said a few years ago that raster was "gimped" to make RT look better they might have been right as the game would have started development with no RT. However now we are in a different position. Game engines are starting to be tuned for RT effects and raster is starting to be phased out... Its amazing what time does.

Seems like you aren't liking that my predictions are coming true with such comments of "will your brain not allow it"

Or maybe devs trialed RT back then such as in dl 2 and saw how much quicker and less effort it required thus they didn't see the point of finishing the raster effects? Or maybe, they were pushed for time and had to meet release date therefore didn't/couldn't finish of their work on raster hence why eventually dl 2 raster effects got improved down the line (iirc, raster in cp 2077 also got improved after the game release)

 

[Nexus18]

I agree lumen offers both SW (cpu) and HW options as far as I know. The developers of hellblade 2 chose not to release with the HW option. You don't need to PS me about Avatar and snowdrop we've discussed it before. AMD shifting focus to RT was always going to happen eventually remember your old friend time?

Essentially we can agree that what I have said all along is that as the years go on:

- RT will become more common in games i.e. more and more games implementing it and more rt effects getting implemented
- raster effects will get less attention
- some games will provide only RT with no fallback to raster
- more efficient methods will be found to improve rt outside of just hardware grunt

All of which has come true i.e. it was nothing like what some claimed where it wouldn't take of for a long time and that raster would be the primary focus until rt was available to the masses i.e. most likely next gen consoles (although like I have always said, the next gen consoles will be the real catalyst to the rt/pt evolution) but with the way things are going, ue 5 getting adopted way quicker than we expected and if the rdna 4 news is right, this might actually happen much quicker now.

 

[Kelt]

Lmao, looks like they didn't put any time/effort into raster (and why would they spend time on an outdated ancient method tbf), also knew there would be comments like this:





No harm to the guy as he probably doesn't understand the level of time and effort required to get raster looking better/good but comments like this are why RT gets such a bad rep as there is a lack of understanding on why game devs are wanting to move to RT.

Like I said before, this is how things are going to be now, this is just another game where raster effects are now not getting any real effort/time, devs should just start moving to metro ee, avatar and spiderman 2 methods so that people can stop crying over raster already and move on.

Sack the GFX guys/gals responsible for this, both raster and RT look like absolute crap, especially in 2024.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

They're RT lite in the grand scheme of things but that doesn't change the fact that they are heavier RT than other "RT lite" games such as fc 6, riftbreaker and so on and also, the most important point.... no fallback to raster....

Yes it took time for devs to transition from taking in on in those games and releasing games like sperman 2 and avatar with no fallback

Comments such as:

Insinuate that you refer to cp 2077, aw 2. As mentioned, plenty of rt games out there which run well on 3060 and above gpus. Console level hardware equilvalent to a 2070s seem to do just fine with metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar....

Great so I imagine RT runs well on most AMD hardware as well.

Nice way to try and reword my post to make it out like I don't think RT is worth paying for You missed the key point, I have/had no need to pay a considerable sum when the 3080 has handled everything flawlessly except for AW 2 and CP 2077 PT (in fact, thanks to amd and frame gen mod the 3080 would handle them just fine now though But still as said, I've got one of the best gaming displays which I want to get the best from and not even a 4090 would fully achieve this regardless of rt). Depends on the gamer, for me, I've been enjoying the RT evolution for past 3 years with my games and it's only getting better every year, next stage is for more PT, heavier RT effects and higher FPS, just as has happened with RT and PT, this will only become more and more common going forward.

You didn't upgrade for extra performance and you bought in at a good price point. Also if your 3080 handles everything there must be some other AMD gpus that handle everything right?
Thing as we move forward things will progress.......

And like I have always said, people clearly have no understanding of how new tech gets introduced an legacy versions phased out, most think you can just flip the switch and job done, we're in rt/pt only era, the way things are progressing is exactly how I said it would go The main vocal ones who seem to get their panties in a twist over RT are the ones who can't run it or/and dislike nvidia/favour amd and you know I'm right on this as we have seen time and time before when it comes to amd and nvidia strengths i.e. the hypocrisy and irony of gamers - https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/amd-fsr-3-0-ugly-truth-pc-gamers/

what people are they? I literally posted similar above? it takes time to phase out and transition to new methods? We started in 2018/19

Define few years? It's been the case for at least the past 2 years, people just like to keep their fingers in ears and only look at the old games, heck reminds me of the people listing games that didn't have rt and they were released before the 20xx even came out

It's 4 years since the consoles released. A few is not many but more than one. So we are a few years after consoles released. Again who are these people you are arguing with?

Seems like you aren't liking that my predictions are coming true with such comments of "will your brain not allow it"

What prediction did I not like? You've gone round in a circle. More games like spiderman 2 and avatar will follow over time. We've reached a pointwhere raster methods are being phased out in preference for solutions like lumen that offer SW fallback and HW approaches so things can move forward.

Or maybe devs trialed RT back then such as in dl 2 and saw how much quicker and less effort it required thus they didn't see the point of finishing the raster effects? Or maybe, they were pushed for time and had to meet release date therefore didn't/couldn't finish of their work on raster hence why eventually dl 2 raster effects got improved down the line (iirc, raster in cp 2077 also got improved after the game release)

I have no idea. I was just highlighting that while the output(poorer raster in some games) is the same the reasons are likely different as hardware has moved and consoles with RT are more mature.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Essentially we can agree that what I have said all along is that as the years go on:

- RT will become more common in games i.e. more and more games implementing it and more rt effects getting implemented
- raster effects will get less attention
- some games will provide only RT with no fallback to raster
- more efficient methods will be found to improve rt outside of just hardware grunt

All of which has come true i.e. it was nothing like what some claimed where it wouldn't take of for a long time and that raster would be the primary focus until rt was available to the masses i.e. most likely next gen consoles (although like I have always said, the next gen consoles will be the real catalyst to the rt/pt evolution) but with the way things are going, ue 5 getting adopted way quicker than we expected and if the rdna 4 news is right, this might actually happen much quicker now.

An original Nostrodamus, developers will start to develop software to use HW that was developed for that same specific purpose.

I agreed with most if not all of that, I'd just rather turn it off than spend extra money on it at the moment. (But guess what? this opinion might change in the future when new hardware and new games release......shock!!).
I also think I started earlier with something similar to above without the bullet points when talking about avatar and spiderman 2...... but I hate to burst your bubble it's been 6 years since RT was introduced so could you define a long time?

My post from earlier that mostly aligns with your post above:

I even gave you a list of games that I was looking forward to with RT. We have crossed a threshold we are starting to see games that started development after the release of the PS5/XB and devs are starting to utilize RT only and are only scratching the surface of what might be possible to achieve.
But when the complete transition to RT only happens, you'll have to consider that the average gamer still won't "care" about RT. It will be turned on and they won't even know about it....

The concept of time also seems to be lost on you, You've been banging the same drum for about 4 years now. I lost count of the number of posters telling you it will be a year or two before it changes and devs/game engines start to tip in favour of RT.
I'm expecting that to happen towards the end of this year (probably aligned with the next round of GPUs) as more and more games (like spiderman 2 and Avatar) and games with UE5.X get released. But even then, you seem to be happy enough with software lumen which doesn't take advantage of the dedicated hardware in your GPU.

Reads fairly similar, So...... after 6 years we finally have a game engine that's starting to push things on in the right way and we can all hope the performance available in the sub £500 category offers something useful in terms of RT performance. from either Nvidia/AMD or Intel

 

[MikeLoader]

The faster raster crap dies the better!
RT is the Only way!!

 

[von Humboldt]

Yes it took time for devs to transition from taking in on in those games and releasing games like sperman 2

Come again?

 

[humbug]

Lmao, looks like they didn't put any time/effort into raster (and why would they spend time on an outdated ancient method tbf), also knew there would be comments like this:





No harm to the guy as he probably doesn't understand the level of time and effort required to get raster looking better/good but comments like this are why RT gets such a bad rep as there is a lack of understanding on why game devs are wanting to move to RT.

Like I said before, this is how things are going to be now, this is just another game where raster effects are now not getting any real effort/time, devs should just start moving to metro ee, avatar and spiderman 2 methods so that people can stop crying over raster already and move on.

Yeah...

Raster, no RT, with lighting artists you get what you pay for, its not about RT vs Raster.

Yes that's reflection of the room and light on the helmet glass.

 

[humbug]

Also, 2019.

 

[Calin Banc]

Lmao, looks like they didn't put any time/effort into raster (and why would they spend time on an outdated ancient method tbf), also knew there would be comments like this:





No harm to the guy as he probably doesn't understand the level of time and effort required to get raster looking better/good

I'm not sure why, but devs do like to make a mess of things that work. I mean, you have an engine, you already do pretty well AO, shadows, lighting, etc. Why re do it, why not sticking to what it works and improve upon that?
Far Cry 2 works well in Surround/Eyefinity, but 3, 4, 5 and six completely suck even though AMD worked with UBI and the game shows those tech for multi display - the FoV is vomit inducing!

I feel the lack of some features, that already were in in previous games / same engine, is just poor management as they reinvent the wheel each time. so, so stupid.

But when the complete transition to RT only happens, you'll have to consider that the average gamer still won't "care" about RT. It will be turned on and they won't even know about it....

They won't know, because they're not into technicals, they'll just appreciate how the games looks - just like other features in gaming throughout time.

 

[montymint]

Capcom keep selling these old RE games in the bucket load based on recent numbers. Why not work with nvidia and get a free PT update for these games?

I would have 3 profiles. The highest one brining even a 4090 to it's knees. As in 30fps or something. Some might not mind playing it like that with a controller, but at the very least would make for great screen shots. Medium setting should work at least 60fps on a 4080 and Low should work on most if not all RT cards.

At least that is what I would rlwant to see. CAPCOM would get even more sales and a boat load of goodwill if they did such a free update.

Konami own PT, not capcom sadly.

If it were capcom we’d have had the full game by now

 

[humbug]

Why hire a lighting artist when you can get a monkey to check a radio button?

I worry about this for two reasons.

1, RT is no where near ready for mainstream, hear me out.... what's the minimum cost for 60+ 1440P RT? if you watch some reviewers its $2000 because they love to point at silly Cyberpunk slides, but ignoring those idiots its still $700.
The moment a game studio figures that there's 12 people they don't have to pay and they can get their game out 6 months sooner by renting a monkey from the local zoo they will.... "your hardware can't play the game? Get better hardware" -Todd Howard.

2, RT isn't a monkey's job replacement for lighting, take Cyberpunk, fantastic looking game... all the lighting in that is fake, IRL its world would look nothing even close to resembling the game, oh sure its RT, but its RT designed and engineered by a very talented artist or 12, without them the monkeys radio button will make the game look less like a water colour painting but without the art it will still look crap!

 

[mrk]

RT simulates real time lighting based on where the light sources are, and the number of rays/bounces. It is as accurate in gaming to IRL lighting as you can get, period.

Non-RT lighting is just as "fake" in that it still needs to be simulated, just done manually instead of using actual light physics.

In 2024 we are now seeing the true potential of what RT lighting looks like, whether that's software RT right now (UE5.x with games like Hellblade 2) or hardware RT in games that use path tracing like AW2/Cyberpunk etc. How "real" it looks is purely down to the art director's vision on colour grading and weather system/terrain in the game. To my eyes the most realistic to date with no equal is Hellblade 2. That game looks almost exactly like how Epic demonstrated UE5 a few years ago showing their tech demos for Nanite/Lumen, and that's great to see as we can now have those visuals at over 100fps in a gameat a minimum of 3440x1440 without sacrificing any visual quality anywhere else.

 

[Calin Banc]

Yeah...

Raster, no RT, with lighting artists you get what you pay for, its not about RT vs Raster.

Yes that's reflection of the room and light on the helmet glass.

I guess those are cube maps which have their own shortcomings. And they're with raster, that Star Citizen will also move to RT.

Why hire a lighting artist when you can get a monkey to check a radio button?

I worry about this for two reasons.

1, RT is no where near ready for mainstream, hear me out.... what's the minimum cost for 60+ 1440P RT? if you watch some reviewers its $2000 because they love to point at silly Cyberpunk slides, but ignoring those idiots its still $700.
The moment a game studio figures that there's 12 people they don't have to pay and they can get their game out 6 months sooner by renting a monkey from the local zoo they will.... "your hardware can't play the game? Get better hardware" -Todd Howard.

2, RT isn't a monkey's job replacement for lighting, take Cyberpunk, fantastic looking game... all the lighting in that is fake, IRL its world would look nothing even close to resembling the game, oh sure its RT, but its RT designed and engineered by a very talented artist or 12, without them the monkeys radio button will make the game look less like a water colour painting but without the art it will still look crap!

Let me see if I've go this right: so you don't want the light to behave like you'd expected to, automatically, but rather have an artist try to fake it until it looks close enough anyway? ... why?! Why waste his time on mundane tasks instead of letting him build the level how he wants?

Of course in real life it will not look like that, is just a style / color grade, just like you'd do in a movie or photo. I thought that was a given...

However, modders have brought it pretty close

 

[Nexus18]

Yes it took time for devs to transition from taking in on in those games and releasing games like sperman 2 and avatar with no fallback

Great so I imagine RT runs well on most AMD hardware as well.


You didn't upgrade for extra performance and you bought in at a good price point. Also if your 3080 handles everything there must be some other AMD gpus that handle everything right?
Thing as we move forward things will progress.......


what people are they? I literally posted similar above? it takes time to phase out and transition to new methods? We started in 2018/19


It's 4 years since the consoles released. A few is not many but more than one. So we are a few years after consoles released. Again who are these people you are arguing with?


What prediction did I not like? You've gone round in a circle. More games like spiderman 2 and avatar will follow over time. We've reached a pointwhere raster methods are being phased out in preference for solutions like lumen that offer SW fallback and HW approaches so things can move forward.

I have no idea. I was just highlighting that while the output(poorer raster in some games) is the same the reasons are likely different as hardware has moved and consoles with RT are more mature.

Define took time? What were you expecting when turing released? For every game to suddenly switch over night to RT? I would argue the pace of RT adoption has been very quick in the grand scheme of things especially when you look at how long it took for games to move to new engines, new apis like dx 11 to 12 and so on. Keep in mind, the original post you are referencing to is F1 24 comparison here of mine where raster effects are non existent.... Essentially what I am saying is that:

- we will see more titles like avatar, metro ee, spiderman 2 with no fallback

or

- as evidenced with multiple games, we will see more games where the raster effects become non existent because rt is the focus, you want better/shinier graphics? Well buy new gpu or use quality mode on consoles at 30 fps

Depends on the game and what fps you're happy with doesn't it? RDNA 2 as shown runs RT well in most titles except for anything with heavy/maxed RT such as in dl 2, aw 2, cp 2077, control and so on. RDNA 3 is around ampere levels of rt although has the same problem as rdna 2, it doesn't handle multiple rt effects as well.

I didn't buy in for extra perf. because I didn't need it for anything except 2 games so regardless of rt, nvidia or whatever, spending ££££ for 2 games is not a logical move. As shown by various benchmarks a 7900xt(x) is roughly on level with a 3080 but to me it is not an upgrade as I lose out on a superb upscaler (to the point I would have to probably not even use fsr in certain games because of how bad it is thus reduce settings across the board), Again, remember, we are in a rt thread here so my focus is rt going forward and amd right now is not the leader here.

Feel free to read through this thread and you'll see some very examples as well as the other rt thread I linked.

A few?

NVIDIA DLSS & GeForce RTX: List Of All Games, Engines And Applications Featuring GeForce RTX-Powered Technology And Features

See which games, engines and applications support NVIDIA DLSS 2, NVIDIA DLSS 3, NVIDIA DLSS 3.5, Ray Tracing, Frame Generation, Ray Reconstruction, and AI technologies and features when you have a GeForce RTX graphics card, GPU, or laptop.

www.nvidia.com

Yup just a few

You know yourself you have said similar things when ampere was about for 1-2 years, if I get time, I might have to go and quote such posts

An original Nostrodamus, developers will start to develop software to use HW that was developed for that same specific purpose.

I agreed with most if not all of that, I'd just rather turn it off than spend extra money on it at the moment. (But guess what? this opinion might change in the future when new hardware and new games release......shock!!).
I also think I started earlier with something similar to above without the bullet points when talking about avatar and spiderman 2...... but I hate to burst your bubble it's been 6 years since RT was introduced so could you define a long time?

My post from earlier that mostly aligns with your post above:

Reads fairly similar, So...... after 6 years we finally have a game engine that's starting to push things on in the right way and we can all hope the performance available in the sub £500 category offers something useful in terms of RT performance. from either Nvidia/AMD or Intel

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the first line? Just coming across as making a point to try and get out of your comments around software and hardware RT mode? Either that or you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here for the sake of it. You don't think more devs will follow the same steps as avatar where if dedicated hardware for rt is dedicated, this will be used and if not, it will fall back to software mode automatically?

6 years? Meanwhile 90+% of the games I've played since getting the 3080 have had RT to some extent and 5% of the non rt games are old games The future has been here for a while (of course for those capable of running it) and every year, it's just becoming more and more present.

Great so we agree, I was right all along with my predictions

Yeah...

Raster, no RT, with lighting artists you get what you pay for, its not about RT vs Raster.

Yes that's reflection of the room and light on the helmet glass.

Great now go and find out how long it takes to achieve that level of visuals and then compare to how long it would have taken to do with rt.

Why hire a lighting artist when you can get a monkey to check a radio button?

I worry about this for two reasons.

1, RT is no where near ready for mainstream, hear me out.... what's the minimum cost for 60+ 1440P RT? if you watch some reviewers its $2000 because they love to point at silly Cyberpunk slides, but ignoring those idiots its still $700.
The moment a game studio figures that there's 12 people they don't have to pay and they can get their game out 6 months sooner by renting a monkey from the local zoo they will.... "your hardware can't play the game? Get better hardware" -Todd Howard.

2, RT isn't a monkey's job replacement for lighting, take Cyberpunk, fantastic looking game... all the lighting in that is fake, IRL its world would look nothing even close to resembling the game, oh sure its RT, but its RT designed and engineered by a very talented artist or 12, without them the monkeys radio button will make the game look less like a water colour painting but without the art it will still look crap!

Lighting artists are still going to be about regardless, their job simply has adapted and they have a new tool to learn. A light artist and game dev studio even stated about this before in some article a while back and how they much prefer to work with rt now. Also, I've never play star citizen but what about the visual artifacts you get with raster methods? Doesn't matter how good you are, you can't fully get rid of those. when I get more time, I'll repost that here.

As shown in the development industry in general, it's all about cutting costs and improving productivity now so it would be stupid for game devs to ignore all the pros that rt can bring to help aid these areas.

Why are you ignoring avatar, metro ee and spiderman 2? Those are RT only and run just fine on consoles and <£600 gpus.

number 2 point, just lol, not even responding to that.

 

[Nexus18]

RT simulates real time lighting based on where the light sources are, and the number of rays/bounces. It is as accurate in gaming to IRL lighting as you can get, period.

Non-RT lighting is just as "fake" in that it still needs to be simulated, just done manually instead of using actual light physics.

In 2024 we are now seeing the true potential of what RT lighting looks like, whether that's software RT right now (UE5.x with games like Hellblade 2) or hardware RT in games that use path tracing like AW2/Cyberpunk etc. How "real" it looks is purely down to the art director's vision on colour grading and weather system/terrain in the game. To my eyes the most realistic to date with no equal is Hellblade 2. That game looks almost exactly like how Epic demonstrated UE5 a few years ago showing their tech demos for Nanite/Lumen, and that's great to see as we can now have those visuals at over 100fps in a gameat a minimum of 3440x1440 without sacrificing any visual quality anywhere else.

Wrong, it's actually 100 times more fake than RT

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Come again?

Even my keyboard likes to ignore me somethings

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Define took time? What were you expecting when turing released? For every game to suddenly switch over night to RT? I would argue the pace of RT adoption has been very quick in the grand scheme of things especially when you look at how long it took for games to move to new engines, new apis like dx 11 to 12 and so on. Keep in mind, the original post you are referencing to is F1 24 comparison here of mine where raster effects are non existent.... Essentially what I am saying is that:

- we will see more titles like avatar, metro ee, spiderman 2 with no fallback

or

- as evidenced with multiple games, we will see more games where the raster effects become non existent because rt is the focus, you want better/shinier graphics? Well buy new gpu or use quality mode on consoles at 30 fps

Depends on the game and what fps you're happy with doesn't it? RDNA 2 as shown runs RT well in most titles except for anything with heavy/maxed RT such as in dl 2, aw 2, cp 2077, control and so on. RDNA 3 is around ampere levels of rt although has the same problem as rdna 2, it doesn't handle multiple rt effects as well.

I didn't buy in for extra perf. because I didn't need it for anything except 2 games so regardless of rt, nvidia or whatever, spending ££££ for 2 games is not a logical move. As shown by various benchmarks a 7900xt(x) is roughly on level with a 3080 but to me it is not an upgrade as I lose out on a superb upscaler (to the point I would have to probably not even use fsr in certain games because of how bad it is thus reduce settings across the board), Again, remember, we are in a rt thread here so my focus is rt going forward and amd right now is not the leader here.

Feel free to read through this thread and you'll see some very examples as well as the other rt thread I linked.

A few?

NVIDIA DLSS & GeForce RTX: List Of All Games, Engines And Applications Featuring GeForce RTX-Powered Technology And Features

See which games, engines and applications support NVIDIA DLSS 2, NVIDIA DLSS 3, NVIDIA DLSS 3.5, Ray Tracing, Frame Generation, Ray Reconstruction, and AI technologies and features when you have a GeForce RTX graphics card, GPU, or laptop.

www.nvidia.com

Yup just a few

You know yourself you have said similar things when ampere was about for 1-2 years, if I get time, I might have to go and quote such posts

Define time? its been 6 years. Why would I expect it to be instant it was always going to take time, I always said it would take time and it has.... it has taken 6 years to reach this point.

I practically agreed with you. A lot of the games in that list with RT added are part of the earlier transition, compromises were made to both raster and RT unless Nvidia pumped money in and even then as you highlighted it crippled performance so it was a compromise in itself. Add stupid GPU prices and it becomes more of a problem for people to get on board with. Not every game makes good use of the RT hardware and devs were still learning and are very much still learning. You can't disagree with that.

We are here now 6 years after turing (4 after ampere) and we have had the first few games that are "RT only" and plenty more to come soon with UE5, we are past the tipping point and running towards RT only with either SW or HW or both. This is were things will start to get interesting as almost all hardware will be compatible so no more doubling up on techniques. I can imagine many people will be eager to see what peformance will be available at the £300 and £500 price points.

What I said yesterday was pretty much similar to your wonderfully obvious prediction.
But because I don't proclaim my undying love for RT (I'd rather wait for it to become worth it ) you seem to want to argue trying to bring quotes from 4 years ago or claims from other people into the discussion.

I'm in favour of games like Avatar and Spiderman 2 (these first released on console ) and future games with UE5 that will use both SW and HW lumen/RT.
As I said I was surprised you were not pushing for the devs of Hellblade 2 to add a HW path for RT and instead seem content. I can bet if AMD had any involvement in this you would be all over how they are ruining your life.

With new hardware at the end of the year and possibly new consoles, things will ramp up. But that brings us into 2025? Maybe we can continue the conversation then

I get that you've ran out of people to argue with but stop projecting your battles with others onto me.

And now I'm off to buy a new keyboard as it's missing every odd keypress