The Sony A73/A7R3/A7S3/A9 Thread

[Richdog]

So guys this thread is a little quiet... any more people sold a kidney and bought one yet?

I took mine to photography a jazz concert with my 85mm f1.8 last night, got a few great shots which I will share when processed. Eye/face autofocus did a pretty good job even from a distance and results at ISO 8000 were great. 200/s seemed to be the shutter speed needed to keep things nice and sharp.

I really want Sigma to hurry up and bring out their new f1.4 Art series though... 85mm was a bit long for the size of the venue and 50mm would have been perfect.

 

[xaldub]

Still sitting on the sidelines at the moment. I'll have a play with one at the Photography show next month. For me, Eye AF is the killer feature that I'd like for my Fuji cameras. I'm still not sold on the quality / cost of Sony lenses ... and there are several minor annoyances eg. dual card memory slots but only one is UHS-2, touch screen doesn't work in menu, poor customer support.

I'll probably wait for the X-T3 later this year and the 100megapixel update to the GFX ( likely next year ) but undoubtedly Sony is gaining traction fast and I think this year will be pivotal in deciding if Sony overtake Canikon in the full-frame ( mirrorless ) market.

 

[Richdog]

Few photos from a jazz concert the other day. The autofocus did a decent job, especially Eye-AF, which worked from 5 metres away. I still need to experiment with the camera though as I am pretty sure that I can tweak the settings a lot for better performance, but overall I was very happy with my keepers.

All were taken with a Sony FE 85mm f1.8 at ISO 5000-8000.

 

[Richdog]

Still sitting on the sidelines at the moment. I'll have a play with one at the Photography show next month. For me, Eye AF is the killer feature that I'd like for my Fuji cameras. I'm still not sold on the quality / cost of Sony lenses ... and there are several minor annoyances eg. dual card memory slots but only one is UHS-2, touch screen doesn't work in menu, poor customer support.

Sony lenses are the sharpest full frame in the business. Prices are in line with Canon and Nikons top-end stuff for the most part, and there are some bargains like the 28mm f2 and 85mm f1.8. Also, Sigma etc are announcing their new line of FE lenses this or next month. As for the UHS-II/UHS-I slots, yes it's annoing but it's really not a problem in practise, at least I haven't noticed any real impact.

I'll probably wait for the X-T3 later this year and the 100megapixel update to the GFX ( likely next year ) but undoubtedly Sony is gaining traction fast and I think this year will be pivotal in deciding if Sony overtake Canikon in the full-frame ( mirrorless ) market.

I am so happy I moved away from Fuji, I much prefer the images and low light performance of Sony, not to mention the fast lenses, and the X-T3 doesn't look like it is going to add much other than IBIS.

Anyway, what are you going to do with 100MP?

 

[xaldub]

Sony lenses are the sharpest full frame in the business. Prices are in line with Canon and Nikons top-end stuff for the most part, and there are some bargains like the 28mm f2 and 85mm f1.8. Also, Sigma etc are announcing their new line of FE lenses this or next month. As for the UHS-II/UHS-I slots, yes it's annoing but it's really not a problem in practise, at least I haven't noticed any real impact.


I am so happy I moved away from Fuji, I much prefer the images and low light performance of Sony, not to mention the fast lenses, and the X-T3 doesn't look like it is going to add much other than IBIS.

Anyway, what are you going to do with 100MP?

That's debatable about Sony lenses being the sharpest ( and is "sharp" the only quality one should consider ?? ) in the business. I think many Canon users would disagree with you on that point. Personally I think the top range Sony lenses are very good, with a price to match, but quality control is an oft-mentioned concern. For example, if I was to dip into the Sony ecosystem I'd be looking at a set of primes for portraiture eg 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4 & 85mm f1.4. The first two ( native Sony lenses ) have had huge problems with quality control with people having to go through 3 or 4 copies before getting one that was passable. For the cost of those lenses that degree of variance simply shouldn't exist. I take your point that Sigma are expanding into producing lenses for the Sony E-mount and that third party support should help customers in the long run.

The UHS-I / UHS-II thing is a potential problem if you're planning on shooting events and/or action. I can't understand why Sony haven't made both card slots the same speed ... just smacks of cheapness, or is it a case of deliberately handicapping the A7RIII so it doesn't undercut sales of the A9 which is the camera they've marketed for action/events ?

As for the upcoming X-T3, who knows how much of an upgrade it will be. The rumours strongly suggest a 28 megapixel camera with BSI which should help improve low light performance significantly. I think it's also highly likely the sensor will have improved CDAF/phase detection to make AF on a par with the latest Sony cameras like the A7III. If that also leads to Eye-AF on par with Sony then I would be delighted.

And, to answer your question about a 100 megapixel GFX. No, I don't need that resolution for the majority of what I shoot ( though I do some fine art landscape and commercial work ) but I'm interested to see what a 2nd generation GFX ( using latest sensor technology ) brings to the table with respect to general handling, overall enhancements and image quality. What I do know is that Fuji lenses are superb, particularly for the GFX ... there is virtually nothing in the full-frame world that is even remotely in the same league.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Still waiting for that perfect camera/system.

At the moment Canon still makes the most encompassing lens lineup. Their bodies has flaws but the lenses are pretty complete in everything you ask for. From silly fast expensive primes like the 35L mk2 to lower consumer grade primes to 35/2.0 IS to obscure marco MP-E or it has full 3rd party support. Great CPS support and a massive used market for gear. They also seem to release bodies that seldom have recall, I don't remember any if at all. They might not do the Fuji thing where they constantly update their firmware but to be honest….it's hardly ever required.

As always been the past 10 years, they shackle themselves with bodies that is behind the competition, but also in reality, all their problems can be solved with 1 product, as opposed to other brands which has more than 1 shortcomings. Sony will always play catch up with lenses, same with Fuji. Neither have CPS level in both speed and coverage. Neither have the Flash system of RT-Speedlite. etc etc

The A7R3 is amazing, it is almost perfect but not quite. The 5D4 got a huge amount of flak for not having 2 high speed card slots and having the SD card being UHS-1, a lot of flak, and Sony should get the same, rightly too….but some reason this is seldom mentioned.

Anyway, I'd like a Sony A7R3…..but will I take better photos? I dunno……I doubt it.

 

[Richdog]

That's debatable about Sony lenses being the sharpest ( and is "sharp" the only quality one should consider ?? ) in the business. I think many Canon users would disagree with you on that point. Personally I think the top range Sony lenses are very good, with a price to match, but quality control is an oft-mentioned concern. For example, if I was to dip into the Sony ecosystem I'd be looking at a set of primes for portraiture eg 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4 & 85mm f1.4. The first two ( native Sony lenses ) have had huge problems with quality control with people having to go through 3 or 4 copies before getting one that was passable. For the cost of those lenses that degree of variance simply shouldn't exist. I take your point that Sigma are expanding into producing lenses for the Sony E-mount and that third party support should help customers in the long run.

I never said sharpness was all that mattered, obviously common sense dictates that it isn't. However they are the sharpest they have recorded, check DXO which is the only reliable benchmark we have.

The UHS-I / UHS-II thing is a potential problem if you're planning on shooting events and/or action. I can't understand why Sony haven't made both card slots the same speed ... just smacks of cheapness, or is it a case of deliberately handicapping the A7RIII so it doesn't undercut sales of the A9 which is the camera they've marketed for action/events ?

The A9 is not quicker at UHS transfer speeds than the Sony, it is actually a little slower, so that theory doesn't make any sense unless you are referring to fps. Either way after also having initial reservations about lack of dual UHS-II I have not noticed an issue with transfer speeds in practise, though I generally do not mirror my images to both cards. I will do some testing to see how much performance is impacted and report back here.

As for the upcoming X-T3, who knows how much of an upgrade it will be. The rumours strongly suggest a 28 megapixel camera with BSI which should help improve low light performance significantly. I think it's also highly likely the sensor will have improved CDAF/phase detection to make AF on a par with the latest Sony cameras like the A7III. If that also leads to Eye-AF on par with Sony then I would be delighted.

The sensor will not be a huge jump from the X-T2/X-H1, even Fujirumors admits that. A crop sensor with more than 24MP is already starting to stretch the format, so they can't squeeze much more out of it. Eye-AF will also realistically be nowhere near as good as Sony as Fuji just do not have the same technology or algorithms.

And, to answer your question about a 100 megapixel GFX. No, I don't need that resolution for the majority of what I shoot ( though I do some fine art landscape and commercial work ) but I'm interested to see what a 2nd generation GFX ( using latest sensor technology ) brings to the table with respect to general handling, overall enhancements and image quality. What I do know is that Fuji lenses are superb, particularly for the GFX ... there is virtually nothing in the full-frame world that is even remotely in the same league.

Nothing in the full frame world is 'even remotely in the same league'? Sigh... talk about hyperbole.

I was disappointed with my Fuji X system lenses, it was one of my main reasons for switching to Sony. Fuji fast aperture lenses 23/35/56mm have slow and noisy AF, and Fuji lenses in general have mediocre to poor out of focus rendering barring the 56mm and 90mm. In fact, somewhat ironically considering your above post, the only really spectacular thing they do have going for them is sharpness. Moving away from Fuji was a decision which I certainly do not regret, the Sony a7rIII gives me more creative freedom due to significantly more megapixels and low light capability and overall more pleasingly rendered results.

Still waiting for that perfect camera/system.

At the moment Canon still makes the most encompassing lens lineup. Their bodies has flaws but the lenses are pretty complete in everything you ask for. From silly fast expensive primes like the 35L mk2 to lower consumer grade primes to 35/2.0 IS to obscure marco MP-E or it has full 3rd party support. Great CPS support and a massive used market for gear. They also seem to release bodies that seldom have recall, I don't remember any if at all. They might not do the Fuji thing where they constantly update their firmware but to be honest….it's hardly ever required.

As always been the past 10 years, they shackle themselves with bodies that is behind the competition, but also in reality, all their problems can be solved with 1 product, as opposed to other brands which has more than 1 shortcomings. Sony will always play catch up with lenses, same with Fuji. Neither have CPS level in both speed and coverage. Neither have the Flash system of RT-Speedlite. etc etc

The A7R3 is amazing, it is almost perfect but not quite. The 5D4 got a huge amount of flak for not having 2 high speed card slots and having the SD card being UHS-1, a lot of flak, and Sony should get the same, rightly too….but some reason this is seldom mentioned.

Anyway, I'd like a Sony A7R3…..but will I take better photos? I dunno……I doubt it.

There is no perfect camera Raymond, they all compromise in some way. Only buy what suits your needs better than the last camera, as in the end that is what will give you better results.

 

[Tysonator]

I agree with Raymond Lin that canon and even Nikon do have a huge range of lens. Now of course most canon owners will never want to or afford to own all the lens. I suspect that most canon owners have apx no more than 4 lens.
Sony are indeed playing catch with lens and will in the medium term will to to have a great range of lens. However the G Master range are very, very expensive and there lies the problem. The Sony bodies are great the lens apart from the G Master range are OK in IQ. Sony now have a small reasonable speedlite range of units to choose from with one having a unique flip head feature.
Where Sony will score big with canon owners will be if canon speedlites will work with full features on a Sony body and if the adaptors for mounting canon glass could give better performance in AF

I personally believe canon will release a 5DV with a huge array of new features and a 7D Mkiii with 4k, flip screen, more fps, dual slots, WiFi, bluetooth etc, etc
This will keep most canon users happy for the next 4 years unless Sony can sell A7Riii and the new A6700 at a very competitive price to tempt the not so loyal canon user.
I would love to own a FF DSLR and for me the 6DMkii falls short in bang for buck and, the 6D mki is still a bit pricey 2nd hand and 5Diii has too much old tech for the price. Even though it is still a very capable camera to own.
Unless you a pro and therefore should be able to earn back the cost of a new DSLR in revenue for the rest of us it will be just an very expensive hobby !

 

[Richdog]

I agree with Raymond Lin that canon and even Nikon do have a huge range of lens. Now of course most canon owners will never want to or afford to own all the lens. I suspect that most canon owners have apx no more than 4 lens.
Sony are indeed playing catch with lens and will in the medium term will to to have a great range of lens. However the G Master range are very, very expensive and there lies the problem.

It is simply not true that Sony high-end lenses are more expensive than both Nikon and Canon. Using the international site of bhphoto as a benchmark:

• Nikon 35mm 1.4 - $1700 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/735000-USA/Nikon_2198_AF_S_NIKKOR_35mm_f_1_4G.html?sts=pi
• Sony 35mm 1.5 - $1500 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1126137-REG/sony_sel35f14z_distagon_t_fe_35mm.html

Sony 35mm 1.4 is $200 cheaper.
-----------------------

• Nikon 70-200 2.8 - $2800 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1292140-REG/nikon_af_s_nikkor_70_200mm_f_2_8e.html?sts=pi
• Sony 70-200GM 2.8 - $2450 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1222776-REG/sony_sel70200gm_fe_70_200mm_f_2_8_gm.html?sts=pi

Sony 70-200mm 2.8 is $350 cheaper.

-----------------------

• Nikon 24-70 2.8 - $2400 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1175033-REG/nikon_af_s_nikkor_24_70mm_f_2_8e.html
• Sony 24-70 2.8GM - $2065 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1222774-REG/sony_sel2470gm_fe_24_70mm_f_2_8_gm.html

Sony 24-70 2.8 is $350 cheaper.

-----------------------

So, while some lenses are priced higher, lets not pretend that they all are because that is simply not true. A good portion of the key high-end professional lenses are in fact cheaper (in addition to being sleeker and sharper) than their Nikon equivalents. With Canon it varies, but they are generally cheaper than Nikon anyway.

The Sony bodies are great the lens apart from the G Master range are OK in IQ.

What do you mean, that only the Sony GM lenses have good quality optics?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Their top line lenses are all great across the board, prices up and down and what you save in one will cost you more in the other so that's not really the issue. The issue is other things like the complete line up isn't there. It might be there later but it's not there now. CPS membership is not the same, its just not there, the 2nd hand user market is also not the same etc etc.

They are all different things and all needs time to be addressed vs 1 body problem for the Canon. Which is why I can't jump into other brands with both feet, it is much more than just gear for me.

 

[Richdog]

Their top line lenses are all great across the board, prices up and down and what you save in one will cost you more in the other so that's not really the issue. The issue is other things like the complete line up isn't there. It might be there later but it's not there now. CPS membership is not the same, its just not there, the 2nd hand user market is also not the same etc etc.

They are all different things and all needs time to be addressed vs 1 body problem for the Canon. Which is why I can't jump into other brands with both feet, it is much more than just gear for me.

Agreed on the system not having as many lenses, but any significant gaps should be fixed in the next year or two. This year will see Sigma and the other 3rd parties release their new lenses as well as Sony with their new long prime for sports. Obviously the lens mount is so comparatively new it's nowhere near as comprehensive as Canikon, that is self explanatory. However I would say it covers most areas on at least a satisfactory level besides the long telephoto primes. As a wedding photographer you should be more than ok with what they have, especially as Canon lenses can be adapted with a Metabones adapter, the autofocus for which which is good for everything except fast sports.

Sony also have a relatively new Pro Support system which people are giving good feedback about.

What do you feel you would be missing in the current lens line-up?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Their top line lenses are all great across the board, prices up and down and what you save in one will cost you more in the other so that's not really the issue. The issue is other things like the complete line up isn't there. It might be there later but it's not there now. CPS membership is not the same, its just not there, the 2nd hand user market is also not the same etc etc.

They are all different things and all needs time to be addressed vs 1 body problem for the Canon. Which is why I can't jump into other brands with both feet, it is much more than just gear for me.

What lenses are sony missing that you use for pro work?

There CPS membership is as good as canikons by the way. where did you hear that it aint? the Only problem is that it is not widely available like canikon.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Anyways here are a few shots from the A7r3

1
BarcelonaWinter2017_pt2-43.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

2.
BarcelonaWinter2017_pt2-78.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

3
BarcelonaWinter2017-43.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

4
BarcelonaWinter2017-62.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

5
BarcelonaWinter2017-91.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

6
BarcelonaWinter2017-138.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

7
BarcelonaWinter2017-183.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

8
BarcelonaWinter2017-241.jpg by Jon Richy, on Flickr

 

[Raymond Lin]

So in my Canon kit….replace me like for like with these, focal length and aperture.



20/1.4

24/1.4

35/1.4

50/1.4

85/1.2

100/2.8 Macro IS

135/2.0

45/TSE

16-35/2.8

24-70/2.8



How many of these can I replace with a direct swap to native lenses? I don’t mean work around with an adaptor, I don’t mean manual focus lenses (I guess the 45/TSE being the exception here.



And next year or 2 isn’t really good enough, it isn’t now so if one is swapping over, one needs to have the lenses there and then, can’t exactly ask a client to wait because Sony hasn’t releases a lens….

 

[Richdog]

How many of these can I replace with a direct swap to native lenses? I don’t mean work around with an adaptor, I don’t mean manual focus lenses (I guess the 45/TSE being the exception here.

Come on Raymond, many of those lenses are available. Why don't you do your own research and then only list the ones you can't find (barring an 85mm f1.2 which only Canon has anyway).

 

[crinkleshoes]

Canon 85 1.2 is a very special lens... no Sony/Nikon/any lens can create the same effect as that, it would have to be adaptor for that one. There are other good 85s, though.

 

[xaldub]

So in my Canon kit….replace me like for like with these, focal length and aperture.



20/1.4

24/1.4

35/1.4

50/1.4

85/1.2

100/2.8 Macro IS

135/2.0

45/TSE

16-35/2.8

24-70/2.8



How many of these can I replace with a direct swap to native lenses? I don’t mean work around with an adaptor, I don’t mean manual focus lenses (I guess the 45/TSE being the exception here.



And next year or 2 isn’t really good enough, it isn’t now so if one is swapping over, one needs to have the lenses there and then, can’t exactly ask a client to wait because Sony hasn’t releases a lens….

Exactly Raymond. Sony may eventually flesh out their system but it isn't there now. Some people on here and elsewhere speak as if Sony has only just entered the photographic industry .... they have actually been doing this since 2006. And here we are, almost 12 years later, and people are still waiting for a complete lens line up. At least Sony now seem to have settled on a platform - the full-frame E mount system. Perhaps that indecision early on trying to compete in the APS-C market slowed their progress and market penetration. They are definitely gaining traction, but I don't think it's a certainty that they will be on a par with Canikon within 2 years.

As for lenses, their top quality ones are excellent optically, with the exception I highlighted earlier that some are notorious for variance in quality control. And yes, their GM lenses do cost about the same as Canikon's latest equivalents ... but as Raymond has alluded to customers who own Canikon gear have the option of purchasing older versions on the 2nd hand market or 3rd party lenses all of which are a lot cheaper and often as good as, if not better in some cases, than their newer counterparts.

None of this should be taken as me suggesting Sony is a bad system - it isn't. They are certainly helping to push technology forward particularly in sensor design but at the end of the day they are primarily a consumer electronics company and don't currently have the infrastructure in place to cater for every facet of what is required to support the professional photographic community.

 

[jonneymendoza]

So in my Canon kit….replace me like for like with these, focal length and aperture.



20/1.4

24/1.4

35/1.4

50/1.4

85/1.2

100/2.8 Macro IS

135/2.0

45/TSE

16-35/2.8

24-70/2.8



How many of these can I replace with a direct swap to native lenses? I don’t mean work around with an adaptor, I don’t mean manual focus lenses (I guess the 45/TSE being the exception here.



And next year or 2 isn’t really good enough, it isn’t now so if one is swapping over, one needs to have the lenses there and then, can’t exactly ask a client to wait because Sony hasn’t releases a lens….

A lot of those are available tbh

 

[Raymond Lin]

Come on Raymond, many of those lenses are available. Why don't you do your own research and then only list the ones you can't find (barring an 85mm f1.2 which only Canon has anyway).

No that’s the point, many is not all and I’ve done the research and last time I looked it isn’t even close so unless something changed in the past 3 months, something got announced? I’m happy to be corrected.

Off my head I don’t think there’s a 20/1.4, 24/1.4, 85/1.2, 100/2.8 macro IS?

It’s just full of holes currently.

 

[jonneymendoza]

No that’s the point, many is not all and I’ve done the research and last time I looked it isn’t even close so unless something changed in the past 3 months, something got announced? I’m happy to be corrected.

Off my head I don’t think there’s a 20/1.4, 24/1.4, 85/1.2, 100/2.8 macro IS?

It’s just full of holes currently.

What do you use those specific lenses? Do you useuit for fast af tyoe subjects or for stills/static object