The state of the IT industry

I've seen many changes in IT over the past 25 years....

I've always got time for your comments Mr. H. I agree with all you said.

I also blame the the x-factor and footballing culture.
Everyone thinks they can sing or play football and want a million pound deal for doing so.
Just because someone has a networked PC at home, they think they know it all.
 
I don't really know what the reasons are maybe it's just so easy to find people with experience?
I graduated in Information Systems Technology and my lack of experience means I'm about as desirable as leprosy. Pretty much given up on finding a job before the year is over. Rest of my life spent as a temporary clerical assistant @ £6.50 an hour sounds good...

Officially I had 1.5 years experience with an AV company doing support, and 8 years of being a home IT enthsiast (not the most impressive of CV's) and landed a role with a multi-national accountancy company solely in charge of IT for one of their regional offices. You get the interview, show enthusiasm, carry yourself well, and many companies WILL give you a chance. I love my job and know i'll be going onto better things in future.

Reed.co.uk, Monster etc are all full of I.T. roles. Start in basic support if you have to, get some experience, then work your way up like everyone else.

too true!!

get out while and if you can!!!!

I really wish people would give it a rest with all this "OMG IT is crap get out while you can" rubbish.

I.T. can be a great sector, you just need to find the right job and specialise. ANY field has it's share of pant roles and drawbacks... it's upto you to carve your own path and make sure you're doing what you want to be doing in the field.

I.T. has some interesting and varied roles and the market is more vibrant now than the recession a couple of years back. I know people 30-40 years old on 50k plus who love their jobs. Yes, it can be pressured and sometimes work some extra hours, but hey that's life.
 
Also, look at contracting for your 1st roles. Might be easier and simpler for you to get experince at IT if you do a few 4-5 week roll outs, followed by 3-4 monthss help desk roles. At least after that, when you see 'Bigredshark' for an interview, you can answer some questions and make him smile...

remember not to ask for £50K for 1st line helpdesk rolls though lol...

<ColiN> - IT contractor for 9 years and loving it!
 
From I can see it is mainly 'newbies' who are struggling to get jobs, i.e. those without experience. I'm talking people in their early 20s who are recently qualified mainly.

There's stacks of jobs in my sector of IT being advertised all the time. In fact my department is really struggling to find candidates good enough to work for us, there seems to be a lack of talent in our region.

Seems to me it's mainly about getting your foot in the door through whatever means. It took me 5.5 years after graduating to get a genuine IT job, but now I'm there there seems to be ample opportunity for progression.

I guess my advice would be for people to maybe lower their expectations a tad. I often see graduates expecting to just waltz into jobs paying £25k+; sure, some people can do that but not everyone.
 
Personally i think it's all down to attitude i only graduated in May and started on a 6 month contract at a web dev company that is about to end and i have already lined up another role with a 3k salary rise.

While I was being recruited for the second job, I asked about being trained as an MSCD and he laughed and said it wouldn't help get anywhere. The specific things he liked about me was my attitude and the fact i was interested in what i was i doing.

All my mates who got 2.1s in compsci or sweng have pretty found jobs now and I, personally, think with people on here with no experience and a CCNA or MSCE sold to them by Computeach et al, are unrealistic. I would like see them try get into law or some other profession with a similar qualification in that industry.
 
So...with all this doom and gloom going around...what would you suggest me to do ?
Im a computer science undergraduate in my first year, how do i maximize my employability ?
 
I am a Clerical Assistant what is wrong with that?

i am on an Apprenteship but already been offered multiple jobs in various departments in the organisation. It eventually leads to a good career depending on where you are at the moment. I have seen some Grade 5 Jobs that i will be going after which offer a pay around about £22k and even then theirs great career prospects, as long as you get your arse in the door even as a low end techie you will advance, i made the choice not to go to Uni and i started on my apprenteship as i know i will get first hand experience and my foot will be in the companies door and wont budge.

To be honest if you cant get a job its not down to your Quals its down to your experience, it is hard to get a job now as most companies require previous experience an "job role" environment.

I had a conversation with my Officer the other day and she was pointing out various paths i can put my nose into, you just have to be open minded and not expect to be a Managing Director from the start.
 
One thing I'd like to add on the whole 'outsourcing' issue is that unfortunately it seems to have become the holy grail for many companies - getting highly skilled Asians to do all the 'IT stuff' at a fraction of the cost. The problem is that the people taking these decisions tend to have an extremely limited understanding of what various IT resources and departments actually do.

I have quite a varied experience with outsourcing: At my previous employer, the parent company took the decision to axe our entire IT staff. This included: ALL Developers, Operations, Project Managers, Business Analysts, Testers, Admin and Desktop Support. In one grand sweep they wanted to clear out the entire IT infrastructure of a company who's entire business model revolves around Information, and drop it down in India in less than 12 months. Over time they came to realise that this actually wasn't such a great idea and the redundancies were scaled back until none actually happened - by which time it was too late, many people had either moved on or pocketed retention payments.

On the other hand, my current employer utilises resource in Pakistan for Testing, R&D System Support and technical authoring. It actually works quite well considering and is probably worth the cost saving. More stuff is also getting moved to our South African offices.

So I think outsourcing is actually not that bad when it is thought out properly and done in consultation with people who have a good knowledge of what areas are affected. The danger comes with 'bods in suits' who just look at the figures without actually understanding what people do or how much work is involved decide to pull the trigger.
 
I think a lot of it has been said already..

I've been working in IT for almost 15 years, and I've seen a lot of changes. Like others I remember when a NCP or MCSE meant something, but today it's worthless. It you look at current contracor daily rates there is little or NO difference in rate between someone with an MCSE and someone without.

I work every day with contractors/grads/N00b's all with MCSE qualifications, and to be blunt, there not worth the paper there written on. They teach you nothing about the IT world or the skills needed to survive and perform in a role. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I'm sorry, but you are just wrong.. I'll take experience over an MCSE any day of the week.

We're not living in the 80s anymore, if you want to leave uni, or the forces, and get an MCSE then expect to walk into a job then your headed into the wrong career, be a plummer or a bricklayer, there in demand. If you want to get into IT be prepared to be 1st line support, or low level programmer/web developer on a wage to match.

I disagree with some of the others here.. doing small contract jobs here and there gives you little real understanding of how a business works, and often looks bad on the CV, 6 weeks here, 8 weeks there.. Get a starter job and stick with it for 12 months.. it may pay less in the short term, but you will benefit in the long run.

The IT industry can have some great and well paid jobs, but you have to work hard to get them..
 
Do an internship

make sure you get a 2.1 / first

Join many societies at Uni, and be the president of one of them / or at least have a position at one of them.

I repeat this every time these threads come up:

DO AN INDUSTRIAL PLACEMENT

It doesn't guarantee you a position but many times I was turned down for a job when looking in the third year and received feedback, I lost it based on a lack of relevant industry experience. I can build a computer. So what? So can most of the rest of the CompSci grads. What makes me different? Well er... nothing!
 
I don't understand why it is difficult to get a job in IT though if you have little experience, there are thousands out there you just have to lower your expectations. There are tonnes of first line helpdesk jobs, monkey work etc going that are a first step up but they pay pap and work you hard. When I worked for quite a large IT firm, there were a tonne of grads on first line, waiting to show to people that they should be promoted into a better role.
.

Exactly what I did.
Spent 3 years on 1st/2nd line support then moved onto infrastructure, db management and Service Delivery.

I left college this year and luckily I do have a job in IT, but i'm worried that my lack of a degree will limit me eventually.

I do play on studying one part-time though so I can learn and keep gaining experience.

Seriously, you can be excellent at the job we have on offer - that's what I'd be looking at. My manager and I will be interviewing soon for a new poisition and we'll be looking for relevant experience and a desire/ability to learn the ropes quickly rather than reading what someone achieved in Uni. Graduates are 10 a penny nowadays, someone with the right attitude and ability to work well in our team isn't - that's something gained with experience. Of course if we can get both then that's ace, but the experience/person is held in higher regard than what qualifications they've achieved where we're concerned.

People watch these terrible 'want a 30k a year and flash car for playing computer games all day??' ads on daytime TV and think it really happens. Then they apply for jobs and get knocked back and wonder why?

The IT industry is still pretty strong - If you're worried about outsourcing, move into Service Delivery, it's more unlikely to get farmed out anywhere.
 
To the graduates without a job: What quailifications do you have? Unfortunately it is hard to get a 'foot in the door' unless you stand out or have experience. Your qualification needn't be a MSc from Oxbridge, but the important thing in my eyes is that you show the ability to work hard and go the 'extra mile'.

For instance I have a first class hons degree from a mediocre uni (TBH most people in this thread could acheive this if they applied themselves), and weeks after circulating my CV, was recruited by an IT firm with a good salary. 18 months on I am still with the same company and living with zero living costs (on my company's expense account) and a 30% higher salary, and working in Madrid (And I just got back from doing the same thing in South Africa for a year).

I know there are other people here in similar positions, so it shows it isn't all doom and gloom for graduates, and whilst experience isn't a compolsury prerequisite to a decent job, hard work is.

Oh and

DO AN INDUSTRIAL PLACEMENT

Preferably at a well-known company. Doesn't have to be an IT company- for exaple I was at Nestlé supporting their factory IT systems for a year.
 
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Erm


For those people who are thinking a degree is a LIMITING factor, it really isn't... aslong as it's not the ONLY thing on your CV.

I'd much rather have a 2.1 in Comp science (from any Uni) + a year placement at a top company... than some work experience changing kids password in a school and no degree (which is what a lot of people are doing as "experience" over a degree).

My friend is on course for a first in computer science from manchester Uni... and he has just completed a year at Goldman Sachs technology department... he's sorted for any IT job. While he is at Uni, he actually works for the IT department there, fixing peoples computer problems who stay in halls. There are many chances to do IT related things when at Uni, it's just most students (like myself) are lazy as hell... and won't bother doing anything but the degree.


If you do a degree PROPERLY, and use all the advantages that come along with it, you'll definatly be far ahead of people without one who are the same age.
 
My friend is on course for a first in computer science from manchester Uni... and he has just completed a year at Goldman Sachs technology department... he's sorted for any IT job.

Probably massively overqualified for a lot of them too. You'd be amazed how much of a barrier over-qualification can be. Sounds like he has the experience/qualification balance just about right though so hopefully he'll be fine :)
 
One thing I'd like to add on the whole 'outsourcing' issue is that unfortunately it seems to have become the holy grail for many companies - getting highly skilled Asians to do all the 'IT stuff' at a fraction of the cost. The problem is that the people taking these decisions tend to have an extremely limited understanding of what various IT resources and departments actually do.

I have quite a varied experience with outsourcing: At my previous employer, the parent company took the decision to axe our entire IT staff. This included: ALL Developers, Operations, Project Managers, Business Analysts, Testers, Admin and Desktop Support. In one grand sweep they wanted to clear out the entire IT infrastructure of a company who's entire business model revolves around Information, and drop it down in India in less than 12 months. Over time they came to realise that this actually wasn't such a great idea and the redundancies were scaled back until none actually happened - by which time it was too late, many people had either moved on or pocketed retention payments.

On the other hand, my current employer utilises resource in Pakistan for Testing, R&D System Support and technical authoring. It actually works quite well considering and is probably worth the cost saving. More stuff is also getting moved to our South African offices.

So I think outsourcing is actually not that bad when it is thought out properly and done in consultation with people who have a good knowledge of what areas are affected. The danger comes with 'bods in suits' who just look at the figures without actually understanding what people do or how much work is involved decide to pull the trigger.

The solution is to work for an outsourcing company, so businesses send their IT work to you :) Accenture, EDS, LogicaCMG, cap gemini or one of those others.
 
Probably massively overqualified for a lot of them too. You'd be amazed how much of a barrier over-qualification can be. Sounds like he has the experience/qualification balance just about right though so hopefully he'll be fine :)


Well someone like him wouldn't be applying to be an IT guy in a school, or tech support in a small business, so i'm sure it wouldn't effect him that much... also, you could just leave stuff off his CV (which must be gold). He has mentioned in the past he is tempted to apply to Microsoft/Google... I can't see him working for a big corperation, but he certaintly would get an interview there.


I have another friend who did a degree in Artificial Intelligence... he got a 2.1, also from Manchester Uni, and his only work experience was working in Starbucks... he got to a first round interview with Google... so it goes to show, that experience, although important, isn't the be all and end all of getting a job.

The job i'm starting on Monday isn't really an IT job. It's doing Search engine marketing (optimising websites for better ranking on the search engines)... it's an entry level role, but will hopefully grow into big things. Anyway, I got this with no experience either (Thistle Hotel, and Matalan wwere my part time jobs at school/college). There are LOADS of jobs like this available for people with little experience, so if you were really struggling, i'd just go for one of them, as it kinda counts as IT experience.
 
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absolutely agree, just my point was that neither is a qualification :) A mix of both is perfect where possible, but experience usually narrowlyoutshines the qualification in my experience. However, you usually have to get the qualification to get your CV on the table in the first place, so swings and roundabouts really. Knowing people also helps!

I work for a big company and we probably wouldn't look at your friend because (i imagine) he'd be asking too high a salary with little business experience. Or he'd be using us as a stepping stone so we'd waste money on training etc before he went off elsewhere. Depending on how he came across in the interview that would be debatable, but we'd probably be wary, wondering why Goldman didn't snap him up if he was so good - or he'd have an ego the size of a house despite having relatively little experience.

As i said though, it's all dependent on the person. :)
 
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