The Tesla Thread

Amp34 · 10 May 2018 at 16:36

It looks like the M3 is finally arriving in Canada. First ones outside the US.

Edit: scratch that, got the wrong end of the stick on who’s complaining.

EDIT 2: Came across this which may be of interest to peruse: the AAA Green Car buying guide, which has some info on EV strategy from various manufacturers and lots of info on Tesla's etc.

https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/GreenCarGuide/html5/index.html?page=1&noflash

VincentHanna · 15 May 2018 at 00:08

Big news from Elon Musk

Tesla will enable orders end of next week for dual motor AWD & performance. Starting production of those in July. Air suspension prob next year.

We'll likely get rough stats as well as pricing in US dollars

Phate · 15 May 2018 at 07:45

Also saw in Teslarati yesterday that they're reported to be either hitting 4000 units a week or now capable of it.

adam cool dude · 15 May 2018 at 11:07

chroniclard said:
I basically want either a model 3 or something similar, a "family" car with some decent performance and range > 200 miles. My gripe was there are absolutely no alternatives to a model 3 at the moment, imo. I may be missing the entire point of EVs but that would be my criteria for getting one. Basically a hot hatch EV or a BMW M Sport EV.

How much would an equivalent model 3 car cost but the petrol version. That's going to be the big question in the uk? If the model 3 version cost 35k but a Golf GTi cost 5k less than that then you would need around 3 years to even break even. That is discounting all the positives an ice offers over ev before even factoring in manufacturer support and build quality.

VincentHanna · 15 May 2018 at 11:09

Most people do keep cars at least 3 years though.

chroniclard · 15 May 2018 at 11:23

adam cool dude said:
How much would an equivalent model 3 car cost but the petrol version. That's going to be the big question in the uk? If the model 3 version cost 35k but a Golf GTi cost 5k less than that then you would need around 3 years to even break even. That is discounting all the positives an ice offers over ev before even factoring in manufacturer support and build quality.

Yes well, sort of would like one just "because", rather than for any environmental or cost savings.

VincentHanna · 15 May 2018 at 11:35

Don't forget the £4500 Government Grant on EV cars.

Company vehicles also get 100% First Year Allowance, allowing them to deduct 100% of the cost of the vehicle from their profits, before tax. So buying EV's outright would reduce corporation tax for many companies.

https://www.gov.uk/capital-allowances/first-year-allowances

adam cool dude · 15 May 2018 at 13:33

VincentHanna said:
Most people do keep cars at least 3 years though.

Fair enough but you would have a far better built and enjoyable car in the golf GTi for those 3 years and most likely have better residual on it after 3 years anyway. If EV residuals on current UK cars is anything to go by.

Deus Ex · 15 May 2018 at 21:19

adam cool dude said:
[...]If EV residuals on current UK cars is anything to go by.

You cant really compare a model 3 to a nissan leaf.

McPhee · 15 May 2018 at 23:11

adam cool dude said:
Fair enough but you would have a far better built and enjoyable car in the golf GTi for those 3 years and most likely have better residual on it after 3 years anyway. If EV residuals on current UK cars is anything to go by.

How do you choose to calculate depreciation? Versus RRP? Or versus the actual purchase price?

The Leaf is often quoted as one of the worst. But if you bought one two years ago on a competitive deal, you'd have seen relatively little depreciation. £3k-£4k over two years. Similar story for the other common example, the Zoe.

Jonnycoupe · 16 May 2018 at 12:19

b0rn2sk8 · 16 May 2018 at 12:55

As expected then, the platform is very good but build rates and quality could be better. Pretty standard Tesla then! Surprised about how positive he was about the interior given he was directly comparing to Merc and BMW. They have clearly made good progress here. I know the ‘Apple’ style keep it simple is t to everyone’s tastes but it certainly is mine and he seemed to dig it also.

McPhee · 16 May 2018 at 15:30

"Credible" is a good word, I think. It's what Tesla does; build electric cars that are credible alternatives to their ICE counterparts. Most other companies are delivering compromised EVs that justify those compromises by being (relatively) cheap. If the Model 3 is "credible", then it's achieving its purpose. It's setting itself apart from the competition.

It will be interesting to see if there's any direct competition by the time it hits the UK.

VincentHanna · 16 May 2018 at 15:31

b0rn2sk8 said:
As expected then, the platform is very good but build rates and quality could be better.

That review didn't actually mention any quality issues.

b0rn2sk8 · 17 May 2018 at 12:56

He did, it was pretty subtle, he said something along the lines of not wanting to spend too much time looking at the outside.

Seeing as the outside of the car looks pretty good from a design and styling point of view the only reason to say that is to refer to panel gap issues that plague Tesla’s. Though I imagine his car was actually fine which is why he didn’t highlight them directly.

That being said I don’t really know what relevance production rates and Tesla’s financial position are to the actual review of the car. Especially as the information he said was out of date.

Edit: it was at around the 9 min mark. He also said they ‘need to build a lot of them and properly’.

Amp34 · 17 May 2018 at 17:05

satchef1 said:
"Credible" is a good word, I think. It's what Tesla does; build electric cars that are credible alternatives to their ICE counterparts. Most other companies are delivering compromised EVs that justify those compromises by being (relatively) cheap. If the Model 3 is "credible", then it's achieving its purpose. It's setting itself apart from the competition.

It will be interesting to see if there's any direct competition by the time it hits the UK.

By direct competition I presume you mean small/mid sized “premium” saloons?

If so then nope, not a chance. There’s likely to be about half a dozen crossover/SUVs and a few hatchbacks in the 200+ mile range however, from premium and mainstream manufacturers.

On the saloon front it’ll be slim pickings for a while. Polestar (Volvo) have announced sort of similar vehicles, and BMW have announced an i4, but neither of them will be available until at least 2020+. I think it’s going to be a bit of an issue for BMW/Audi/Merc if they don’t get their fingers out of their butts on the saloon side of things as Tesla are directly competing against their ICE versions, and I know which “premium” saloon I’d rather have if I was in the market for one.

When/if the Model Y comes out however it will be in a very competitive market, with significant crossover/SUV competition.

Phate · 20 May 2018 at 09:39

https://electrek.co/2018/05/20/tesl...el-3-dual-motor-awd-and-performance-versions/ - Performance & AWD Model info revealed.

AWD

Range: 310 miles
0 to 60 mph acceleration: 4.5 seconds
Top speed: 140 mph
Price: $5,000 for AWD option

Performance Dual Motor

Range: 310 miles
0 to 60 mph acceleration: 3.5 seconds
Top speed: 155 mph
Price: $78,000 (without autopilot)

VincentHanna · 20 May 2018 at 19:18

So pretty much double a normal long range model.

AWD looks alright though.

Phate · 20 May 2018 at 19:24

VincentHanna said:
So pretty much double a normal long range model.

AWD looks alright though.

That 78k I think is with all options except the autopilot. I think (big think here) it's more like a third more for the performance model.

pioneer2000 · 20 May 2018 at 19:44

Competitive with BMW / Merc on price, so sounds pretty reasonable. How does upgrading to this version work for UK orders? Still just got a 2019 timeline on our order.