The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

[EastCoastHandle]

You are welcome to compare Nvidia shipments 2 weeks after launch with AMD. Many of this forum's competitors published numbers (and continue to do so). Those numbers blow AMD out of the water while AMD likely wont have shipped a single AIB card in the UK in the first 2 weeks.

Of course you don't want to look at real evidence.

Oh, so you are not using paper launch any more. Ah, I see, ok then.
But I'll give it 40 days (plus extra do to holidays) for AIBs since it's when we've debated about it.

 

[muon]

Oh, so you are not using paper launch any more. Ah, I see, ok then.
But I'll give it 40 days (plus extra do to holidays) since it's when we've debated about it.

It is a paper launch. There are no more cards shipping. It's gone for the time being.

Shipping 1 card doesn't stop it from being a paper launch like you seem to think it does.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

It is a paper launch. There are no more cards shipping. It's gone for the time being.

Shipping 1 card doesn't stop it from being a paper launch like you seem to think it does.

You should have said 1/2 a card. Just the leds and heatsink. You failed!
You only have one job...just one job to make AMD look bad!!!

 

[zx128k]

By the time upscaling tech/RT matters we won't be using using 6xxx series cards. DLSS is hardly in any games, and RT is hardly in any games. NVIDIA are ALREADY pushing DLSS perf mode which looks like trash as soon as you move for example.

4K gaming didn't become the standard overnight. This is an intentional marketing campaign.

Now, here's the reality check. If you bought a 6xxx series card, then you aren't really that fussed about upscaling or RT, so won't be "stuck" at 1080p like you are claiming.

DLSS is in all the RT games were it matters most like control and cyberpunk. The 6800xt will be like the 2080 ti without DLSS. MS want a DLSS version for the xbox. AMD went the wrong way with DLSS. AMD RT in world of warcraft looks like crap, I turned it off. AMD fidelityfx ambient occlusion looks nothing like RT ambient occlusion. AMD's RT looks like crap.

Show me a review where the 6800XT is pulling 490 watts.

Not my statement, so not my problem.

So it seems both the 6800XT and 3080's are both power hungry. There isn't much to say one is better if you want to use less power than the other, as they're both eating power unless you undervolt them.

If you wanted to save the environment you'd not be buying either cards.

Or the market should price in carbon to the cost. The environmental problems are just a different word for stating capitialism does not work and if left unregulated or unchamged by government will kill us all. Even the Great Reset as a solution is world socialism. https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-...the-great-reset-world-leaders-radical-plan-to

“Every country, from the United States to China, must participate, and every industry, from oil and gas to tech, must be transformed,” wrote Klaus Schwab, the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum, in an article https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/ published on WEF’s website. “In short, we need a ‘Great Reset’ of capitalism.”

Or, put another way, we need a form of socialism — a word the World Economic Forum has deliberately avoided using, all while calling for countless socialist and progressive plans.

The market will burn fossil fuels until we all die. Thats the real problem. There are other ways to produce energy that dont produce CO2. The market continues to use fossil fuels even when they are more expensive. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/25/coal-more-expensive-wind-solar-us-energy-study https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pres...y-Beat-Even-Cheapest-Coal-Competitors-on-Cost https://skepticalscience.com//renewable-energy-is-too-expensive.htm

Did they which away from fossil fuels, no. They instead gave the fossil fuel industry a whopping $5.2 trillion in subsidies. 6% of world GDP https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509

What will happen if the market is not changed.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._bad_neoclassical_economics_of_climate_change

The following is the abstract of a paper by Prof Steve Keen published online on 1st Sept 2020, which criticises the work of economist William Nordhaus: “ Forecasts by economists of the economic damage from climate change have been notably sanguine, compared to warnings by scientists about damage to the biosphere https://youtu.be/ZfFvLJyPf3o . “ This is because economists made their own predictions of damages, using three spurious methods: assuming that about 90% of GDP will be unaffected by climate change, because it happens indoors; using the relationship between temperature and GDP today as a proxy for the impact of global warming over time; and using surveys that diluted extreme warnings from scientists with optimistic expectations from economists. “ Nordhaus has misrepresented the scientific literature to justify his using a smooth function for describing the damage to GDP from climate change. Correcting for these errors makes it feasible that the economic damages from climate change may be at least an order of magnitude worse than forecast by economists, and may be so great as to threaten the survival of human civilization. https://youtu.be/qWoiBpfvdx0 “

Buying a GPU wont make things worse, the whole economic system has run its course. It's the system or continued human existance. Me buying a graphic card has nothing to do with it and implies I have personal responsibility for the actions of billionairs. Systemic reform will happen or wont happen and me buying or not buying a gpu wont change that.

All it took for AMD to screw you over is the lack of availability and higher price.

But it takes Nvidia to:
-No available stock at the suggested MSRP
-Pricing the skus higher then MSRP
-Sell you a board that blackscreens because of imbalance of capacitors
-Provide you a driver update to lower gpu boost to fix black screens.
-3080 having a 4-5 month shelf life by selling you a lower vram card. To later EOL it for a higher vram card in 2021.
-Did not provide the 50% performance boost over Turing for a flagship to flagship card.
-AIB caught, but never sanction, scalping their own customers at double the price
-Nvidia sold dies to miners instead of filling existing orders. Leaving you to wait.

I'm not saying AMD's pricing isn't exorbitant. It is. However, it's the 1st time in years AMD provided a TI level of performance. However, when you compare and contrast what it takes you to saying when AMD screws you vs when Nvidia is a bit lopsided.

Cant argue against most of that list.

 

[DeathStorm]

There are other ways to produce energy that dont produce CO2.

Just when I thought the conversation had reached a nadir arguing over who had the worse launch between AMD and Nvidia...

 

[FoxEye]

Just when I thought the conversation had reached a nadir arguing over who had the worse launch between AMD and Nvidia...

Both companies are on the naughty step right now.

 

[TheMoeBlob]

https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/status/1332115920144146432?s=19

Potential source of amds issues?

I can only imagine that consoles just make and more money in the long run so make more financial sense to commit to.

Also certainly contracted to certain numbers

 

[Scougar]

DLSS is in all the RT games were it matters most like control and cyberpunk. The 6800xt will be like the 2080 ti without DLSS. MS want a DLSS version for the xbox. AMD went the wrong way with DLSS. AMD RT in world of warcraft looks like crap, I turned it off. AMD fidelityfx ambient occlusion looks nothing like RT ambient occlusion. AMD's RT looks like crap.

"All the games that matter", then you list two. I play 100s of games, not just 2.

Also, dlss v1 was complete trash.

Wow is an ancient engine, I really am not surprised at a bug.

I personally am impressed AMD caught up in perf, and matched the RT perf of 2080ti without specifically dedicated hardware. But to be frank, given that there is RT on consoles now, it is only going to get better.

Cyberpunk from all the neon lighting etc, I am sure will look amazing on 3080 RTX hardware though. Looking forward to it.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/status/1332115920144146432?s=19

Potential source of amds issues?

I can only imagine that consoles just make and more money in the long run so make more financial sense to commit to.

Also certainly contracted to certain numbers

That's valid speculation. AMD is supplying:
-XSX
-PS5
-Zen 3
-RDNA 2
(more then likely in that order)

All on one node from TSMC. If true, I would give AMD a pass on availability and just wait it out. It's not like AMD is just in the GPU market selling dies to miners.

 

[JediFragger]

For ****ing sure RDNA2 cards will come last!! ****s

 

[EastCoastHandle]

@JediFragger

More then likely RDNA 2 would be last. AMD is TSMC's largest consumer at 21%.

Hmm, it looks like tsmc is at full capacity. With a 110k per month since the 2nd half of 2020. Wow, that's a lot of dies they sold!!!!
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-to-become-tsmcs-largest-7nm-customer-in-2020-report

AMD will become TSMC’s largest 7nm customer in the second half of 2020, according to Apple Daily’s supply chain sources. The change of order comes as a result of higher orders from AMD and Apple moving to 5nm for its A14.

Apple Daily reports that TSMC’s 7nm wafer capacity will be 110,000 wafer starts per month (WPM) in the first half of 2020. TSMC’s Top 5 would consist of Apple, HiSilicon (who is starting to ship to external customers), Qualcomm, AMD and MediaTek.

---------------------------------------------------

AMD this morning reported record quarterly revenue of $2.8 billion and a finalized deal to buy FPGA-maker Xilinx for $35 billion in an all-stock transaction. The acquisition helps AMD keep pace during a time of consolidation in the semiconductor industry.

https://www.hpcwire.com/2020/10/27/amd-reports-record-revenue-and-35b-deal-to-buy-xilinx/

 

[Hotwired]

https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/status/1332115920144146432?s=19

Potential source of amds issues?

I can only imagine that consoles just make and more money in the long run so make more financial sense to commit to.

Also certainly contracted to certain numbers

Well it literally says 80% of AMDs wafers are being yoinked by console orders.

Then after that there's CPU orders on account of AMD having proven it can make really nice CPUs.

DIY and GPU in general gets the scraps off the table after those far more important orders are filled.

Know your place in the pecking order

 

[zx128k]

"All the games that matter", then you list two. I play 100s of games, not just 2.

Also, dlss v1 was complete trash.

Wow is an ancient engine, I really am not surprised at a bug.

I personally am impressed AMD caught up in perf, and matched the RT perf of 2080ti without specifically dedicated hardware. But to be frank, given that there is RT on consoles now, it is only going to get better.

Cyberpunk from all the neon lighting etc, I am sure will look amazing on 3080 RTX hardware though. Looking forward to it.

Then old games only matter because there are always few new games. See the logical flaw. With your thinking no one would buy a new graphic card. DLSS 2.1 is not trash but AMD are about to get their version of DLSS 1.0 in a few months.

WoW runs the AMD RT and AMD fidilityFX crap. Worse than turning in graphic quality. AMD RT that looks no better than rasterization. Most people have nvidia cards but have to have lower preformance (no DLSS) and less quality (very low amount of RT and low quality performance hacks so AMD cards dont crash when RT is turned on) so AMD cards can have performance hacks ingames.

Thats all AMD fidilityFX, a whole load of performance hacks so that AMD 6800xt cards can match ampere in games. All of them reduce quality to improve performance. Take Combined Adaptive Compute Ambient Occlusion (CACAO) its not RT Ambient Occlusion which is far better quality.

Ray Traced Ambient Occlusion (RTAO) accurately shadows areas blocking ambient lighting better grounding objects in the environment, such as shadowing the corners and edges where walls meet or adding depth to the crevices and wrinkles in skin. https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Rendering/RayTracing/index.html

Stochastic Screen Space Reflections halves the amount of RT rays and upscales from a low resolution. https://www.ea.com/frostbite/news/stochastic-screen-space-reflections

Why would you use it with all the limitations. Slide 32 shows the reason, cheap raytracing https://www.ea.com/frostbite/news/stochastic-screen-space-reflections The rays are shot at 1/8 of the resolution slide 33. Reuses previous frames slide 44 to increase performance. https://www.ea.com/frostbite/news/stochastic-screen-space-reflections x ray, x resolve sample half-resolution. Slide 47. Sparse raytracing, raytraced at a reduced resolution. slide 63. All about performance slide 74.

Performance in games like dirt 5 are all down to performance hacks that benefit only AMD hardware and reduce graphic quality. This is why AMD lose in Port Royal, cant use performance hacks there. AMD's way of getting performance in RT is to avoid using RT. You only do this if you know your card is slower.

 

[humbug]

https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/status/1332115920144146432?s=19

Potential source of amds issues?

I can only imagine that consoles just make and more money in the long run so make more financial sense to commit to.

Also certainly contracted to certain numbers

That leaves about 30.000 Wafers for Q4.

6800XT is 29mm X 18mm, it equates to just over 100 dies per wafer, That's 3 Million GPU's for Q4.

Or lets say 10,000 wafers on Zen 3 that's 3 Million 5950X and 2 Million 6800 Series GPU's.

That's still a huge amount.

120,000 Wafers is also about 20 Million Consoles.

 

[Grim5]

Well it literally says 80% of AMDs wafers are being yoinked by console orders.

Then after that there's CPU orders on account of AMD having proven it can make really nice CPUs.

DIY and GPU in general gets the scraps off the table after those far more important orders are filled.

Know your place in the pecking order

makes sense, just put yourself in Lisa's shoes

* Who is your biggest group of commercial customers in the immediate future? Sony and Microsoft, so lets give them 80% of our capacity, which by the way is actually only HALF of what they asked us for!

* Who is your second group of commercial customers? Goverment enterprise, private research, AI, data processing, servers, back end infrastructure = These guys wants all your CPU's, let's allocate most of whats left to them.

* "Ok who's left", said Lisa Su. "PC Gamers M'am" said Frank Azor, to which Dr Su replied "bahahahahaha, ok Franky Boy, make sure our factories are producing lots of bicycles - those fat PC gamers will need something to do for the next 6 months until we can make a gaming GPU for them!"

 

[humbug]

makes sense, just put yourself in Lisa's shoes

* Who is your biggest group of commercial customers in the immediate future? Sony and Microsoft, so lets give them 80% of our capacity, which by the way is actually only HALF of what they asked us for!

* Who is your second group of commercial customers? Goverment enterprise, private research, AI, data processing, servers, back end infrastructure = These guys wants all your CPU's, let's allocate most of whats left to them.

* "Ok who's left", said Lisa Su. "PC Gamers M'am" said Frank Azor, to which Dr Su replied "bahahahahaha, ok Franky Boy, make sure our factories are producing lots of bicycles - those fat PC gamers will need something to do for the next 6 months until we can make a gaming GPU for them!"

They asked for 160% of capacity? 40 Million consoles? BTW XBox One X sold 48 Million units between December 2017 and November 2020.

Does 40 Million units for 3 months seem right to you?

 

[EastCoastHandle]

makes sense, just put yourself in Lisa's shoes

* Who is your biggest group of commercial customers in the immediate future? Sony and Microsoft, so lets give them 80% of our capacity, which by the way is actually only HALF of what they asked us for!

* Who is your second group of commercial customers? Goverment enterprise, private research, AI, data processing, servers, back end infrastructure = These guys wants all your CPU's, let's allocate most of whats left to them.

* "Ok who's left", said Lisa Su. "PC Gamers M'am" said Frank Azor, to which Dr Su replied "bahahahahaha, ok Franky Boy, make sure our factories are producing lots of bicycles - those fat PC gamers will need something to do for the next 6 months until we can make a gaming GPU for them!"

Well you gotta put yourself in uncle LJM's shoes too.

*Whos the biggest group of commercial customers in the immediate present? Miners. So lets allocate all of the capacity to them.

*Who's the second group of commercial customers? Randoms... Tesla dropped them. Etc. As regulatories lean toward disapproval of the Arm deal LJM is still trying his best to show why the deal should go through. Making it all hands on deck!

*Ok who's left? Dedicated Nvidia buyers waiting in line hoping that tomorrow will be the day they get *any* card. Jacketman replies, "Mohohahahahaha sell them defects, scalp them, lower the vram on the flagship card and lie about the performance from turing. Until my appointment to be fitted for my replacement jacket! And sell those fat PC gamers more spatulas for their baked goods for the next few months. Every home should have a vase full of spatulas!!!"

 

[humbug]

I'll tell you what, if AMD can't keep up with demand with ~150,000 Wafers in Q4 they are in for a MASSIVE pay cheque at the end of this quarter, 150,000 wafers equates to about 30 Million 300mm^2 dies.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I'll tell you what, if AMD can't keep up with demand with ~150,000 Wafers in Q4 they are in for a MASSIVE pay cheque at the end of this quarter, 150,000 wafers equates to about 45 Million 300mm^2 dies.

No doubt, AMD is making bank right about now. It is said they increase capacity since the 2nd half of 2020 too?

 

[humbug]

No doubt, AMD is making bank right about now. It is said they increase capacity since the 2nd half of 2020 too?

I don't know but 150,000 wafers in a quarter is a LOT, its well within bounds of realism but with that level of wafer supply AMD will probably have near all if not all of TSMC's 7nm capacity and once they sold all the chips from those wafers they will need a bank vault to store their numerous PALLETS of banknotes. They could pay for Brexit.