The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

[EastCoastHandle]

Oh wow, tanking framerates for differences you'd be hard pressed to see. And this is meant to be the RT posterchild?

When I have provided proof or an objective opinion to the contrary for meaningful discussion I'm simply called an AMD fanboy because they have no other answer, ROLF.
AKA ad hominem...a very old tactic used deriving from a logical fallacy.

 

[Nexus18]

Yup I agree.

The biggest advantage of RTX that people are glossing over is that it gets rid of the noise/grain on textures. Sure the reflections are pretty but it's not like the default game ones are bad.

Imagine how much better they could have made the lighting, shadows etc. if they didn't have RTX to work with as well....


Also, as always, it makes me laugh when people spend thousands on their pcs but then pair it up with crappy LCD monitors, especially on a game like this.... better of getting a cheaper gpu and putting the rest towards an oled display (if size isn't an issue).



I just wish I could actually get a 6800 for it's RRP though!!!!

 

[humbug]

I got a good laugh at the amount of insecure responses that fail to acknowledge or understand what we are actually seeing in games with ray tracing. And how ineffective it is, for me, to be a actual selling point to consider. For example, CB2077...the buggiest game of 2020 that's been blacklisted, rebuked, meme'd and refunded...has been championed as the pinnacle of gaming "ampere". And you can only do that with Ampere 3090 at best and 3080 at worst. However, if the framerates are to your satisfaction you can enable DLSS. It might blur the image but allow you to enable RT with a slight performance boost. The images below show you the game with and without RT. To the Left is without RT. To the right with RT (some images may show slightly blurred do to DLSS).












Vocally, some post the delusion that the entire game looks completely different with RT on. If you took their word for it and not look at the game yourself you would think it's true. Yet, it's the biggest lie one can tell in order to promote Ampere. The biggest difference you will see with RT on in this game is a performance penalty. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is it worth it to me to invest in Ampere when this is what I get in return? No, it is not. I cannot invest in that api as I already know that real RT is far better then this as exampled in this post:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...-event-thread.18904106/page-465#post-34373304

Because, I have not found any reasonable counter as to why I should consider it. Other then if I don't align my opinion to favor nvidia I'm a AMD fanboy who only talks negative about it. A badge of honor I wear proudly. As that's the only answer I can get from cheerleaders when presented with information like this which they cannot counter.

First, RT as whole in games offers poor IQ improvements over it's rasterized counter part. It is not a standard in which someone who buys a midrange gpu can enjoy without the performance penalty or blurring of DLSS to increase performance.

Second, it's not true ray tracing as the game is still rasterized. The IQ will remain rasterized with only a few elements of RT put into the game which, to me, is only a few drops in the bucket. Games will never be fully RT'd.

Third, all it does it help decrease development time implementing lighting, shadows, reflections, ambient occlusion, global illumination, etc. Depending on how it's tweaked to improve overall performance. And which the developer will use in the game. As all of the tricks of rt are not always implemented in a game do to the performance penalty. But like I stated before, it doesn't change the fact that its still a rasterized game.Once developers find a why to use it with a minimal performance penalty I can see it being used at the cost of absolutely no IQ improvements...oh wait...Dirt 5, etc...

However, since we are in the RDNA 2 thread. One has to decide if this is worth it to you or not. For me, it is not. I rather pay a cheaper price, if and when it becomes available, for better next gen level of rasterized performance. If some games include RT so be it. However, buying that game that offers RT won't be a selling point to me. My interest is in the game itself.

Merry Christmas!!!

Good grief look at the road surface on the RT / DLSS images compared with the native on the right, that's some low res poo going on right there.

Like reducing your resolution increases your frame rates, yea well done Sherlock, so what else does it do?

 

[shankly1985]

To also add I do think screenshots are not a good way to showcase Ray Tracing because you are not showing the drawbacks of screen spaced reflections.

 

[Eliagon]

Merry Christmas!!!

Mnhmn, I really like the selected two screenshots however...

I skipped the first RT gen, so HAVE to try it this time!!!

 

[humbug]

Good grief look at the road surface on the RT / DLSS images compared with the native on the right, that's some low res poo going on right there.

Like reducing your resolution increases your frame rates, yea well done Sherlock, so what else does it do?

You know what, i just had a good look round those images, everything on the right looks like 720P vs 1440P on the left, its not just the road surface, i'm sorry.... Its everything! How is this acceptable? is it just me, am i just too much of a graphics whore? The DLSS processed image looks ####'### horrible "Oh but fill in missing railings" NO! where's my missing pixels?????

Christ....

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Yup I agree.

The biggest advantage of RTX that people are glossing over is that it gets rid of the noise/grain on textures. Sure the reflections are pretty but it's not like the default game ones are bad.

Imagine how much better they could have made the lighting, shadows etc. if they didn't have RTX to work with as well....


Also, as always, it makes me laugh when people spend thousands on their pcs but then pair it up with crappy LCD monitors, especially on a game like this.... better of getting a cheaper gpu and putting the rest towards an oled display (if size isn't an issue).



I just wish I could actually get a 6800 for it's RRP though!!!!

You noticed as well. I do get a good chuckle out of that. But it goes to show you what they favor more at all cost.
But I do hope that RDNA 2 cards normalize next year.

Edit:
ROLF, at the rage...nothing else to say to engage meaning conversation as to the level of RT we see in game and how it's used on Ampere.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

You noticed as well. I do get a good chuckle out of that. But it goes to show you what they favor more at all cost.
But I do hope that RDNA 2 cards normalize next year.

Edit:
ROLF, at the rage...nothing else to say to engage meaning conversation as to the level of RT we see in game and how it's used on Ampere.

My issue with cyberpunk is how they reduce the level of detail at such short distances. The brackets on the wall fans and the black posts are at lower quality than they should be in the photos you posted. This is also noticeable with the concrete surfaces they turn from chipped/curved to straight/flat corners.The game literally scales from next gen to PS2 quality.

I'd much rather a slider to fix that than turn on ray tracing.

 

[FoxEye]

You know what, i just had a good look round those images, everything on the right looks like 720P vs 1440P on the left, its not just the road surface, i'm sorry.... Its everything! How is this acceptable? is it just me, am i just too much of a graphics whore? The DLSS processed image looks ####'### horrible "Oh but fill in missing railings" NO! where's my missing pixels?????

Christ....

The RT images on the right are pretty bad. It's not just you.

Also the shadows of the lampposts etc, completely destroyed. Isn't RT supposed to increase accuracy... or was the purpose to destroy detail? It seems good at the latter

 

[Nexus18]

Ray racing shadows reminds me a lot of HBAO+ AO i.e. overdone/unrealistic in a lot of cases.



inbf4 someone posts the poster boy video from digital foundry.....

 

[doody]

I got a good laugh at the amount of insecure responses that fail to acknowledge or understand what we are actually seeing in games with ray tracing. And how ineffective it is, for me, to be a actual selling point to consider. For example, CB2077...the buggiest game of 2020 that's been blacklisted, rebuked, meme'd and refunded...has been championed as the pinnacle of gaming "ampere". And you can only do that with Ampere 3090 at best and 3080 at worst. However, if the framerates are to your satisfaction you can enable DLSS. It might blur the image but allow you to enable RT with a slight performance boost. The images below show you the game with and without RT. To the Left is without RT. To the right with RT (some images may show slightly blurred do to DLSS).












Vocally, some post the delusion that the entire game looks completely different with RT on. If you took their word for it and not look at the game yourself you would think it's true. Yet, it's the biggest lie one can tell in order to promote Ampere. The biggest difference you will see with RT on in this game is a performance penalty. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is it worth it to me to invest in Ampere when this is what I get in return? No, it is not. I cannot invest in that api as I already know that real RT is far better then this as exampled in this post:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...-event-thread.18904106/page-465#post-34373304

Because, I have not found any reasonable counter as to why I should consider it. Other then if I don't align my opinion to favor nvidia I'm a AMD fanboy who only talks negative about it. A badge of honor I wear proudly. As that's the only answer I can get from cheerleaders when presented with information like this which they cannot counter.

First, RT as whole in games offers poor IQ improvements over it's rasterized counter part. It is not a standard in which someone who buys a midrange gpu can enjoy without the performance penalty or blurring of DLSS to increase performance.

Second, it's not true ray tracing as the game is still rasterized. The IQ will remain rasterized with only a few elements of RT put into the game which, to me, is only a few drops in the bucket. Games will never be fully RT'd.

Third, all it does it help decrease development time implementing lighting, shadows, reflections, ambient occlusion, global illumination, etc. Depending on how it's tweaked to improve overall performance. And which the developer will use in the game. As all of the tricks of rt are not always implemented in a game do to the performance penalty. But like I stated before, it doesn't change the fact that its still a rasterized game.Once developers find a why to use it with a minimal performance penalty I can see it being used at the cost of absolutely no IQ improvements...oh wait...Dirt 5, etc...

However, since we are in the RDNA 2 thread. One has to decide if this is worth it to you or not. For me, it is not. I rather pay a cheaper price, if and when it becomes available, for better next gen level of rasterized performance. If some games include RT so be it. However, buying that game that offers RT won't be a selling point to me. My interest is in the game itself.

Merry Christmas!!!

Was debating 3080 or rx6800xt going for/ rx6800xt

 

[ICDP]

The reason the RT looks bad is they are using performance DLSS which is basically an upscale from 720p, hence the low res reflections and blurry mess. Using quality or even balanced keeps the sharpness looking much better. Having said that when I play with it on to test the visuals on my 2080 it really does not look worth it at all. This is the problem, many are stating it's the next big thing but the reality is it isn't that much of a "wow" when you do turn it on. If it wasn't for DLSS it would be utterly worthless and even then DLSS is only worth it when it is at the higher settings.

If you get playable FPS with RT on and a higher DLSS setting then it is free eye candy. Once you start pushing to performance DLSS then the blurry mess appears and you are trading overall IQ for some bling.

 

[Gerard]

Jaysus!

 

[Sargatanas2511]

The reason the RT looks bad is they are using performance DLSS which is basically an upscale from 720p, hence the low res reflections and blurry mess. Using quality or even balanced keeps the sharpness looking much better. Having said that when I play with it on to test the visuals on my 2080 it really does not look worth it at all. This is the problem, many are stating it's the next big thing but the reality is it isn't that much of a "wow" when you do turn it on. If it wasn't for DLSS it would be utterly worthless and even then DLSS is only worth it when it is at the higher settings.

If you get playable FPS with RT on and a higher DLSS setting then it is free eye candy. Once you start pushing to performance DLSS then the blurry mess appears and you are trading overall IQ for some bling.

How dare you bad mouth DLSS! Remember it's the best thing since sliced bread and totally not created solely to try and make RT work on cards that are definitely not capable of natively running RT!

Not at all...


Admittedly DLSS 2 is actually pretty decent most of the time but there's a limit to how far you can go without really losing visual quality and defeating the point.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Grim not present now that the debate is heated up and there is actually a game to showcase all the fuss?

DLSS may be good when its used correctly, but if your part baking it like some of these games are rushing through, its just gonna be a sack of ****. This is why proprietary locked in features are a two step forwards for plastic bragging rights, yet one step back for the progress of overall GPU movement as they focus on making money and recouping costs rather than working together for the common good.

 

[Richdog]

How dare you bad mouth DLSS! Remember it's the best thing since sliced bread and totally not created solely to try and make RT work on cards that are definitely not capable of natively running RT!

Not at all...


Admittedly DLSS 2 is actually pretty decent most of the time but there's a limit to how far you can go without really losing visual quality and defeating the point.

Of course DLSS has been created to improve performance with RT and if in the end it can do so without a significant visual impact then yes, when judged solely at the reason for its existence then it is the best thing since sliced bread. It is a genuine innovation designed to address a specific problem that looks to be improving a lot from generation to generation and from what I have read DLSS 3.0 will likely raise the level of performance vs quality once more to cement it's status as a must-have feature if you want to use RT with acceptable performance and without making significant visual sacrifices.

Don't forget that AMD want their own version of this, they NEED their own version of this basically asap in order to be competitive with Nvidia in this particular area and to address their already inferior RT performance. Whether you give a damn about using RT or not, that is just hard, cold fact.

In an ideal world would we need DLSS to get acceptable RT performance? No, but since when has the world, especially the PC hardware industry, been ideal or without compromise. DLSS in either NVDLSS or AMDLSS forms are here to stay and likely or the forseeable future. In 12-24 months it will simply be a standard feature and these conversations will no longer be remembered.

 

[Calin Banc]

There is absolutely zero mention of ray-tracing in this video about Unreal Engine 5's new Nanite and Lumen technologies which will be used with PlayStation 5.

Nor that it say that it simulates light just like a path tracer will. It's a ruff "hack" that works ok at a first glance. You still can't do proper reflections and probably other stuff.

Oh wow, tanking framerates for differences you'd be hard pressed to see. And this is meant to be the RT posterchild?

Unsurprisingly he posted screen shots with very little/no difference.

RTX On vs. Off



RTX Off vs On




RTX On vs. Off




The above examples are only about GI and most likely ambient occlusion RT.

Good grief look at the road surface on the RT / DLSS images compared with the native on the right, that's some low res poo going on right there.

Like reducing your resolution increases your frame rates, yea well done Sherlock, so what else does it do?

If you don't use an aggressive setting is ok, but for sure is not worth it to use Ultra Performance as it make everything quite blurry and on some materials the image quality goes done big time - that reflection on the road, some fences, if you drive it gets blurrier (so fast movement), drinking it makes it blurrier than it needs to be and probably more.

On Quality is quite good, even Balance is decent, but performance may find a lot of people not liking in - while ultra performance is not really recommended - except for some screen shots.

 

[Richdog]

Guys the video made by Digitalfoundry shows very clearly, with plain empirical evidence, what RT delivers vs non-RT:

It's one of the best example videos I have seen and bear in mind that the RT in CP2077 is still pretty BETA stage compared to what it will be in future games. There is a significant difference in visual realism due to the lighting and shadows, transparency and reflections.

 

[Poneros]

I got a good laugh at the amount of insecure responses that fail to acknowledge or understand what we are actually seeing in games with ray tracing. And how ineffective it is, for me, to be a actual selling point to consider. For example, CB2077...the buggiest game of 2020 that's been blacklisted, rebuked, meme'd, refunded and sued...has been championed as the pinnacle of gaming "for ampere". With a 3090 at best and 3080 at worst. If the frame rates are not to your satisfaction you can enable DLSS. It will blur the image but allow you to enable RT with a slight performance boost.

The images below show you the game with and without RT.
To the left is without RT.
To the right with RT (some images may show slightly blurred do to DLSS).
Merry Christmas!!!

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaackin hell mate, that's some STRONG blurring with DLSS. I knew they can't render reflections properly but that's just brutal. Still would like to use RT Lighting because the combination would work wonderfully with HDR, particularly as you see the signs emit their own light. But that didn't stop me from putting in my 100hr already for CP2077.

The funny thing is in my country prices kept going up with every new stock drop, so while I got my 6800 for 660e I can see bladi 3060 Tis reach that price now almost! It's a crazy, crazy time.

 

[chris85oc]

Guys the video made by Digitalfoundry shows very clearly, with plain empirical evidence, what RT delivers vs non-RT:

It's one of the best example videos I have seen and bear in mind that the RT in CP2077 is still pretty BETA stage compared to what it will be in future games. There is a significant difference in visual realism due to the lighting and shadows, transparency and reflections.

why bother?

these guys just post 5 cherrypicked worst case scenarios to downplay RT and DLSS then agree with eachother. Best echochamber i’ve seen in ages. Totally not like anyone can check for themselves in the video you linked and see all the actual examples. Naaa

It’s hilarious.