The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

[ljt]

RT is over rated. Too many reflections on games at night is horrible too.

You still get reflections without RT in games. I don't know what the big fuss is.

I bet if you told someone that RT was turned on in a game they were playing and it wasn't, they would believe you.

Its too easy to check if a reflection is faked or proper RT though.

If you move the viewpoint/camera to obscure the reflected object from view then it will disappear from the reflection if it's faked by SSR but will remain if its RT

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Its too easy to check if a reflection is faked or proper RT though.

If you move the viewpoint/camera to obscure the reflected object from view then it will disappear from the reflection if it's faked by SSR but will remain if its RT

Quake 2 RTX is full path traced

 

[Chud_Jenny]

RT is over rated. Too many reflections on games at night is horrible too.

You still get reflections without RT in games. I don't know what the big fuss is.

I bet if you told someone that RT was turned on in a game they were playing and it wasn't, they would believe you.

Very true. And the other is having a panel that's good enough too. I'll be running an LG OLED55BX6LB, 4K120Hz adaptive sync for both teams. I'm struggling to see the need for a monitor of any type now. All those awful backlighting issues go away with OLED. Don't get me wrong they aren't perfect as you are still susceptible to burn in. But all the guys at Digital foundry have been on OLED since 2016 and they are in high standing amongst reviewers with me.

 

[Troezar]

With over 20 years in hardware, for me RT is a none starter until it's hit is under 5%. And the hardware is capable of that. It will be interesting say to jump 2 years ahead in a DeLorean to give the consoles time to mature with RT. The software ecosystem has years of catching up to do too. I'd class it as day one with RT software now the Vulcan support has dropped.

Agreed. It's definitely the future but I can wait until it is full on RT with no fudging or DLSS type technology required for decent framerates. It's a good few years away for what I'd be prepared to pay for it. Give me full resolution 1440p ray tracing(the real thing) at 100fps on a £500 GPU and I'll be there.

 

[TheMoeBlob]

That looks pretty bad for AMD. Interesting to see what their next iteration of RT cards can do. It does look more promising on the newer games, AMD look far more competitive going forwards.

Quake 2 rtx is a nvidia tech demo. This result should be expected NV preforms better

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Agreed. It's definitely the future but I can wait until it is full on RT with no fudging or DLSS type technology required for decent framerates. It's a good few years away for what I'd be prepared to pay for it. Give me full resolution 1440p ray tracing(the real thing) at 100fps on a £500 GPU and I'll be there.

Quake 2 rtx is a nvidia tech demo. This result should be expected NV preforms better

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/quake-ii-rtx-ray-traced-remaster-out-now-for-free/
Very true. That game clearly shows what happens with an AMD GPU using nvidia blackbox code. As you can see it won't stop it from playing the game it will simply be hampered from playing it well.

 

[Gregster]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/quake-ii-rtx-ray-traced-remaster-out-now-for-free/
Very true. That game clearly shows what happens with an AMD GPU using nvidia blackbox code. As you can see it won't stop it from playing the game it will simply be hampered from playing it well.

Blackbox code?

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Code specifically implemented and designed by nvidia in a game that is either ignored or not discussed but do to obvious information (IE: Nvidia marketing material, etc) it's clear that the game is sponsored by Nvidia. In which specific code is suppose to be open source or standard (IE:MS).

 

[Gregster]

Code specifically implemented and designed by nvidia in a game that is either ignored or not discussed but do to obvious information (IE: Nvidia marketing material, etc) it's clear that the game is sponsored by Nvidia.

Now, however, AMD fans have an opportunity to enjoy Quake II RTX as well, apparently with Nvidia’s explicit help. Any GPU that supports the Vulkan Ray Tracing extensions maintained and developed by the Khronos Group can also run Quake II RTX. On AMD’s side of the fence, that support appears to be limited to the RX 6000 series, at least for now.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...runs-on-amd-gpus-thanks-to-vulkan-ray-tracing

That certainly isn't what you make it out to be.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...runs-on-amd-gpus-thanks-to-vulkan-ray-tracing

That certainly isn't what you make it out to be.

We already know how nvidia plays ball. So that marketed material won't fly. Didn't we just come off a 40+ page thread about nvidia's marketing

 

[Gregster]

We already know how nvidia plays ball. So that marketed material won't fly. Didn't we just come off a 40+ page thread about nvidia's marketing

Personnally, I am not a fan of NVidia currently but will still see things as they are and you are plain wrong with your "blackbox" statement and NVidia could have ignored AMD if they so wished but chose to help them.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Personnally, I am not a fan of NVidia currently but will still see things as they are and you are plain wrong with your "blackbox" statement and NVidia could have ignored AMD if they so wished but chose to help them.

Come off it. We know that CB2077 doesn't support AMD GPUs for RT for just that reason. They haven't coded Radeon GPUs yet.

...AMD spokesperson said that it won’t support “games making use of proprietary raytracing APIs and extensions”.
...
Speaking with wccftech, Nvidia’s Brian Burke explained that there are just three games on the market that aren’t using Microsoft’s DXR technology – Quake II RTX, Wolfenstein: Youngblood and JX3. These three games use an Nvidia ray-tracing extension for the Vulkan API, simply as a workaround while the official Vulkan Ray Tracing extension is being worked on.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...tx-supported-games-dont-use-proprietary-tech/

Looks like I had to actually post proof of something we, as a community, should already know. That Quake II RTX is actually a game Nvidia help develop.

However, it's not advantageous to "argue" about it. Quake II RTX uses blackbox code that, at least from you arguing to me about it, is not acknowledge as being something exclusive to Nvidia. In hindsight you simply solidify my point on the subject. For that I thank you.


blackbox code:
Code specifically implemented and designed by nvidia in a game that is either ignored or not discussed but do to obvious information (IE: Nvidia marketing material, etc) it's clear that the game is sponsored by Nvidia. In which specific code is suppose to be open source or standard (IE:MS).

 

[w1llyg]

So if the 3080 is the same performance as the 6800xt plus it is better at RT and they're roughly the same price, why aren't we all just buy the 3080?

(I'm an AMD fan and I'm wanting an 6800xt just asking myself why don't i go for an 3080)

 

[Gregster]

Come off it. We know that CB2077 doesn't support AMD GPUs for RT for just that reason. They haven't coded Radeon GPUs yet.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...tx-supported-games-dont-use-proprietary-tech/

Looks like I had to actually post proof of something we, as a community, should already know. That Quake II RTX is actually a game Nvidia help develop.

However, it's not advantageous to "argue" about it. Quake II RTX uses blackbox code that, at least from you arguing to me about it, is not acknowledge as being something exclusive to Nvidia. In hindsight you simply provided my point on the subject. For that I thank you.

"They are using the NVidia extension on the Vulkan API as a workaround whilst the official Vulkan extension is being worked on"..... How on earth is that "blackbox" code?

 

[HRL]

@EastCoastHandle I thought RT was disabled in CP2077 for AMD at their own request because without their equivalent to DLSS, performance is on par with a potato?

Hence the delay until they are ready to release their DLSS equivalent.

 

[FoxEye]

So if the 3080 is the same performance as the 6800xt plus it is better at RT and they're roughly the same price, why aren't we all just buy the 3080?

(I'm an AMD fan and I'm wanting an 6800xt just asking myself why don't i go for an 3080)

The only reason I can think of is increased power consumption and less VRAM.

The 3080s can pull quite a bit over 300W, and some reports of over 400W at times iirc.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

So if the 3080 is the same performance as the 6800xt plus it is better at RT and they're roughly the same price, why aren't we all just buy the 3080?

(I'm an AMD fan and I'm wanting an 6800xt just asking myself why don't i go for an 3080)

The problem is that even with a 3080 performance is not as good as it should at native resolutions higher the 1080p be as of yet without DLSS which only blurs the image to improve IQ. We are still several generations away before we can buy a budget GPU that can actually ray trace. As it stands right now you need a top of the line GPU. In other words once midrange budget GPUs will need to be able to RT at resolutions higher then 1080p at or above 60fps. At or below $500 before it's not longer a niche. IMO.

@EastCoastHandle I thought RT was disabled in CP2077 for AMD at their own request because without their equivalent to DLSS, performance is on par with a potato?

Hence the delay until they are ready to release their DLSS equivalent.

Responding to a question on Twitter, CD Projekt Red's global community lead Marcin Momot said that raytracing on AMD cards would not feature at release, "but we are working together with AMD to introduce this feature as soon as we can."

Although ambiguous they did not state nor imply what you said. That was simply an opinion based on the statement. However, if read properly it does state they are working with AMD to bring it. Which is what any developer does, usually before releasing a game, to optimize their game code to the GPU/drivers to bring optimal game performance.

This is revealing because DXR was implied to be more of a 'plug n play' kind of thing which is hardly true. Now, what I, and others believe is that nvidia helped develop this game with CD PR from the very start. Usually in such cases with a nvidia sponsored game AMD is locked out from it until after it's been released. Something I read about a while back. Which explains CDPR statement about Radeon.

Since we know how abysmal the console release is. And the fact that CDPR is giving refunds for the lack of attention to the game. Also, they were found to be using old code from Witcher 3 (as CB2077 uses the same Engine...only updated) which isn't optimized for Ryzen CPus, thus causing a bottleneck. It appears that all CDPR did was optimize the game to only work well, enough, for Nvidia.
https://videocardz.com/newz/cd-proj...-promises-to-help-with-cyberpunk-2077-refunds
https://videocardz.com/newz/cyberpunk-2077-gets-fps-boost-with-a-patch-for-amd-ryzen-cpus

The links above show both CDPR apologizing for the bugs and unplayable state of the game for others (offering refunds). And the fact that an update is needed to optimize code for AMD CPUs. That's a huge "tell" right there how the developer cycle went...hint..beings with a 'n'...

 

[Gregster]

So if the 3080 is the same performance as the 6800xt plus it is better at RT and they're roughly the same price, why aren't we all just buy the 3080?

(I'm an AMD fan and I'm wanting an 6800xt just asking myself why don't i go for an 3080)

AMD are working on their own DLSS style tech to be able to run RT in games.

FidelityFX Super Resolution

AMD Promises Open Source Multi-Platform FidelityFX Super Resolution. In a recent HotHardware Podcast with Scott Herkelman and Frank Azor, AMD spoke about its FidelityFX Super Resolution alternative to Nvidia's DLSS technology they promised for RDNA 2

Without DLSS, NVidia would run like me (around 4 fps)

 

[Wrinkly]

That looks pretty bad for AMD. Interesting to see what their next iteration of RT cards can do. It does look more promising on the newer games, AMD look far more competitive going forwards.

Newer games? Dirt 5 is the only one that I can think of as newer as they are hiding RT performance with Cyberpunk. Dirt 5 only uses RT for shadows and even then it's probably RT tech rather than ray tracing the complete shadow. What is interesting about Quake 2 RTX is that it's doing full scene denoised path tracing, where all other titles, with the exception of Minecraft, are using a hybrid approach.

 

[Twinz]

I understand how people can get excited about where Ray Tracing could take us in the future, and how today's RT tech is part of how we get to that future, but I don't understand the excitment with the phase we are in now.

RT tanks performance so bad right now that this point on the RT time line is something to be "endured".