The time came

[MikeHiow]

wasn't you complaining about the ride a few pages back, r888s are ''noisy'' and suspension will make the ride harsher.

Indeed, r888s have w terrible sound to them. There are also Yokohama 48 and federwk RSR to consider.

New suspension will not make the car better on crap roads as it will have firmer springs.

Today actually made me think about keeping it and improving it. With the R888s, a RARB and some better suspension with a couple of sets of springs, it could probably be more competitive and better on the road as well.

The trouble is, for the money spent doing that, I could just buy an RX8.

I have no issues with the noise, and better suspension doesn't have to be worse. You'll also notice my mention of a couple of sets of springs, coupled with adjustable rebound, you probably could find something better for the road (my issue is more with road compliance than comfort per se, remember?).

That said, I don't think it's a good idea either - it's a waste of money when for the same cash I could upgrade to a much better car.

As for the comments about me being hellbent on buying one, I wasn't. I was hell bent on a small list of other cars, it was Motors telling me that no, I don't know what I want, what I really needed was an RS Clio.

 

[MikeHiow]

Oh goodie, there's nothing I love more than multi-quotes

Dartmoor. It's known for its lack of B roads and smooth, race track style tarmac.

Oh wait.

Yes, a quality connoisseur like yourself found the little hard Clio no problem? It's amusing really, almost as funny as the guy who thinks a Clio is a better place to be/more comfortable than a Mondeo.

You told us on numerous occasions you wanted just that - purely a toy. It's why you rejected a lot of the softer suggestions people made and why you categorically stated at one point some old Civic was the best car ever for you.

It is really, but as I've said already, one still needs to get around.

No, YOU made it sound like you did in your previous threads. I guess it was inevitable that the truth would end up being that actually the Focus isnt even yours, it belongs to your girlfriend

No I didn't and no it doesn't. I stated I had the Focus for sensible family stuff.

I think you beleive you can get away with pretending that the IOW is some sort of little bubble that is completely different to the UK, whilst forgetting that, well, it isn't. You don't live on Jersey.

If you bothered to look it up (which you probably have - I even supplied some information for you, but you'll continue to act dumb again), you'd see that the Isle of Wight is plagued with particularly bad roads, and this is one of the biggest gripes where tourism is concerned - oh look, people from the mainland complain about the crap roads?

 

[MikeHiow]

Ooh, as another break from the arguing, an even better picture has surfaced - this makes me smile

 

[MikeHiow]

Comfort is second to compliance, which is my biggest gripe with the Clio and I've repeated this several times already.

The RX8 is really quite comfortable (relatively!) in my mind, even on the slightly lower and stiffer Prodrive suspension, but it's winning point is the drive - you can go fast without getting thrown around or chucked out of your seat, you can just cruise (it does still move at lower revs, in fact it's much like the Clio in the power delivery department).

I think half the issue with the Clio is if feel like driving a lowered car - you all must have done it at some point, taken some standard non-sporty suspension and had silly lowering springs on it? Well, I haven't, but I've driven a few and the bump steer and general non compliant drive is just like that! Perhaps it's just lack of travel (the VXR suffered slightly from this issue), I don't know.

 

[MikeHiow]

Multi-quotes are fantastic



I didn't find it excessively hard, no. But then I don't waft around on air suspension in mine do I? I have 35 profile tyres and sports suspension and I've recently been test driving cars with 30 profile tyres, runflats and sports suspension - harsh suspension is something you very much get used to when you choose more 'sporting' cars.

The suspension on the Clio did not stand out as being unacceptable - infact, actually, it was pretty compliant.

If you want an example of a car whose suspension compliance does ruin the experience on B roads, then take a Z4 3.0i out with the sport suspension. This thing is so uncompliant that you have to throttle back because it literally bounces its away from one imperfection to the rest. Much better without the RFT's but still less than ideal.

Well this is the thing, it's not like I don't have a good range of cars to compare my experience to over the very same roads.

For example, the road this was taken on was fun in the ST, but really hard work in the Clio. It has since been resurfaced, and this is the road that makes me doubt my decision to sell, the Clio is absolutely fantastic on a good surface.

By contrast, the Military Road mentioned earlier is a very fast road, well over three figures (in leptons, obviously) is easily achievable for much of it on a quiet night/very early Sunday morning even in the VXR, yet in the Clio I crap myself anywhere approaching those three figures.

And, lets be fair, given the advantages it holds in the 'sporting' side of things you apparently crave, it isnt exactly a hardship to do the odd trip across the island in a Clio is it? It's not exactly an Elise?

It isn't too much, which is why I'm not dead set on, or rushing to sell the Clio, but I could do better for not much more money.

Your 'evidence' claims that the IOW has fallen below the bottom quartile for road condition. This is something i'm happy to accept - note I've said the roads in the IOW are infact race track quality surfaces.

But there will, by the very nature of the statistic, by other areas whose roads have also fallen below this indicator as well. Who knows - they could be areas we live.

Of course, but the chances are that there aren't any/many, but it supports my mention of our roads being particularly terrible, and most likely worse than most on here experience regularly.

He's not going to buy an RX8, he just needs to exit from the Clio for reasons he isn't prepared to share with us, so he's invented a cover story in the way he usually does.

I think its been a few months now since he had the redundancy thing so it's probably that - for anyone else a completely normal thing to do would be to get rid of the sporty car, but no, Mike needs to make a big deal out of it. Which means instead of people wishing him well for the future, we get another 15 page epic as we try and work out whats really going on.

There is no ulterior motive, I have been working self-employed for a while now and I'm just fine, but I appreciate your concern

 

[MikeHiow]

do clios brakes work while airborne?

It's generally a bad idea to brake mid-corner....

 

[MikeHiow]

Because they are great cars and amazing value.

 

[MikeHiow]

Only if you buy a post 2006 one, not that an extra £200 a year is really bank breaking.

 

[MikeHiow]

Have you been contemplating an RX8 then?

You have to remember that at the time, the 350Z and RX8 were in direct competition, except now one is around half the price of the other

I don't know much about the reliability of the 350Z, but I'm guessing they are pretty much bullet proof, the trade-off with the RX8 is the risk of unreliability issues (they aren't necessarily unreliable, but they fail hard through improper maintenance).

If you bought a good one (ie. had it compression tested at Mazda) and checked the right things (hot starts, coils, fuel consumption etc.), it'll most probably be just fine as long as you maintain it properly thereafter. (Proper oil kept topped up, coils/plugs checked/serviced regularly etc.)

 

[MikeHiow]

The RX8 did alright with it's bigger discounts and handling - it puts in similar lap times to the 350Z according to Fastestlaps.com, despite it's 50bhp deficit.

The 350Z is probably the better car on the road for most people, mind.

 

[MikeHiow]

infact... http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2280427.htm £5k? Is that even much more than a decent RX8 would cost?

An RX8 from the bottom of the barrel (where you appear to have pulled that one from ) can be had for as little as around £3.5k now, I believe. I doubt either would be very good though, tbh.

A decent RX8 is likely to be £4.5k upwards, I'd imagine. Similarly, a decent 350Z is going to be £7-8k up, surely?

 

[MikeHiow]

231 and around £5k assuming the Clio goes for £3k.

People keep telling me the running costs are disproportionate to the performance, this is fuel economy alone and the reason why they are so cheap to buy. If they achieved 25MPG, they'd be a few thousand more to buy in the first place.

Mark, £6k is going to be an early and probably not very good 350Z. If I could get a 2004+ one in good condition for £6k, I'd probably jump at the chance.

 

[MikeHiow]

I don't commute, but it is still used to get around places. I probably do less than 5k miles a year on my own (ie. not in the Focus). The point is the RX8 does a better job of handling our roads than the Clio.

Yes, the RX8 will be used for autotests.

 

[MikeHiow]

What on earth is the appeal of these RX8 things, they blow up, drink oil as fast as petrol, you got to thrash them to make them go.

He needs to just buy a decent all round sporty car, its gonna be another disaster with an RX8 i can see it now.

I positively love the drive of the RX8. I had one for a whole weekend and was never out of it.

They blow up when they are not maintained, and lots of cars drink oil - seeing as it doesn't require fully synthetic oil, the oil isn't a huge expense.

 

[MikeHiow]

How do you maintain a car to completely avoid rotor tip wear? I'm pretty sure the RX7 and RX8 communities would love to finally solve a problem that have plagued their cars for years

Well, on the RX8 the biggest issue with the apex seals failing is too much fuel/not enough oil, usually stemming from incorrect operation of the ignition system (coilpacks are a particular weak point - I've even had several RX8 owners tell me to consider them as service items), or the oil injector not operating properly.

 

[MikeHiow]

But you got to thrash it, where is the civility in that when you aint in the mood? Seriously buy something that does it all quite good.

All very well, but I'm not almost doubling my budget to achieve it. I already know the RX8 gels well with our roads, I know I love the drive and I'm sufficiently informed about them to make an educated decision

 

[MikeHiow]

Is it true that they lose compression after abour 60k miles?

Myth.

...what have I missed?....Oh!

My two pennies worth: Mike there is a reason why most RX8's have had 7 owners from new.

Yes, and we've discussed this, which you must remember as the figure we discussed was exactly 7 people based on a particular example someone posted.

Most people buy them, thinking they are absolute bargains and then **** themselves when they realise that they are achieving 20MPG or less. A lot of people seem to think they are crap because of the power delivery, too.

I on the other hand probably understand all the pros and cons of an RX8 better than most, as well as having spent a fair length of time driving one.

Let's not forget that I've not definitely decided on one (I also mentioned that I wanted to look at the Megane 225), they are still a difficult car to buy because you really want to have it compression tested first and there are a lot of crap ones with rust, corroded wheels etc.

In hindsight, I should have just bought one, and I had pretty much decided on one before I lost my job, tossing aside the DC2/EK9 idea on the basis of wanting something a bit newer. The Clio seemed like the ideal compromise really, I found one for a lot less money, it had the rawness and handling, but the little nice touches like auto xenons, climate control etc. My mistake here was sitting down and listening to the recommendations on here....

 

[MikeHiow]

Considering most people's test drives are an hour at best, I think at least 20 hours in one in the space of a long weekend puts me in a pretty good position to make my own mind up

I do not think it unreasonable to consider that a "fair length of time".

 

[MikeHiow]

Here we go, at first it was a weekend...now its a 'long' weekend...

I picked it up on a Friday and dropped it back on the Monday - this constitutes having it for the weekend to me, but as you were questioning the length of time I thought it prudent to clarify.

BOSH! There we have it people! I knew this moment was coming! The reason the Clio is no good is infact all our fault! The evil OcUK forum forced poor MikeHiow to buy a Clio . Now don't you all feel bad ey?

I always thought you could make your own opinions Mike? You seem to voice them enough...

Well which is it? You lot are arguing because you think I should take your advice? Now you're telling me I should make my own mind up?

The advice last time was to buy a Clio - they are talked up everywhere else, too.

You've obviously not down your homework on the Megane, because if you had, you'd have realised that all the 225's prior to the release of the Trophy were crap.

I'll make my own mind up this time. Given that you haven't substantiated this claim, I take it you don't really even know why they are supposedly crap?

 

[MikeHiow]

You would have a leg to stand on if you genuinely didn't know what you wanted when you asked for advice, but you appear to have masses of knowledge on every car you might consider. However, you chose the Clio for whatever reason, and rather than admit you made a mistake you just take the frankly embarrassing and pathetic route of blaming an internet forum.

MikeHiow: "The internet made me do it!"

I didn't blame it on an internet forum at all. I dismissed the Clio early on, however after half of the forum tried to convince me otherwise I thought it was worth considering.

Anywhere else but here, it might have been...

Also, I generally do a lot of research on cars I'm considering seriously. I haven't got around to it with the Megane yet, and you'll notice I've made no indication of knowing really anything about the Megane other than the result of a few reviews and a passenger ride up the road.

Poor handling and limited feedback through the wheel - all things which were gradually addressed throughout the cars life until eventually ending up with a pretty textbook example of a great hot hatch in the later R26 and R26.R.

It would be hugely amusing to see you buy one of the crappy first editions though and then set about convincing the entire world its the bestest car evar!1111, though.

Take out a friends 225, then borrow another friends 225 R26 or Trophy, and you'll probably be able to spot the difference.

I've actually been offered a drive in someone's early 225, I'm hoping that may be a little more informative than trying to find a test drive and doing so on unfamiliar roads.

There will all be compromise somewhere, but I do think the RX8 will likely come out on top - I just want to consider other options, too.