The Top 7... PR disasters

[Psycho Sonny]

Depends on how you look at it really

£200 for a console (absolute bargain)
£200 BR player (complete bargain again)
£25 for inbuilt hdd and wireless - tremendous value

OMG how could you possibly look at it like that? put it this way people who are saying add a hd dvd drive onto the price of the 360 then they cost practically the same is wrong also. You have a choice to buy a hc dvd player or not. Simple fact is the console costs £425 or in my case its £550 (bundle with hdmi and 3 games and a bluray disk)

its £425 for a ps3 (blu ray player, 60gb and wi-fi)
£195 for XBox 360 Core Console & Viva Pinata & Memory Unit

£290 for

XBox 360 Premium Console Entertainment Bundle which includes

• Includes Project Gotham Racing 3 game
• Includes XBox 360 Live Arcade game
• Includes 20GB Hard Drive
• Includes 2 Wireless Controllers
• Includes Headset - Voice Communicator
• Includes Component HD AV Cable (with SCART adaptor)

a lot of people cant justify that price for a games console, as for wi-fi most console gamers wont have a wi-fi connection in their house, this just happens to be a PC shops forum so im guessing 90% of you just happen to do, so built in wi-fi is useless to the intended markey who wont have wireless routers or even routers for that matter, as for the hard drive do we really care? same with blu ray do we really care? it would have been better if sony had made a cheaper console using dvd's but sinc they have invested so much money into cell and bluray they are forced to use it, put it this way sony make a cheap console for lets say £200 what do you get?

PS3 (no blu ray, 20Gb hard drive, no wi-fi, wired controller)

now how many of us would prefer to buy this console over their £425 version, sony have lost out a lot of their market share to the wii because of their price they should have made a core console im sorry but microsoft will win this round again.

For the record i own PS1 (launch console still works), 2 PS2's (1 launch console and 1 silver), PSP (launch console), 360 (3rd console after 2 died on me within a year, first died after 2 weeks), PS3 (money has left my account and is being packed as i type this)

i am no fanboy and luckily i can afford such fine things, but i have been seriously contemplating whether or not o cancel this pre order or not which i have never done before, the only reason was the price. I do actually think sony may have to drop out of the games market unless they can get their act together.

Microsofts main enemy has been advertising, for some reason they dont advertise as well as sony do, can you remember playstation was advertised everywhere, champions league, billboards at football matches, tv constantly and their adverts where stunning and they were a new type of advert never seen before whereas microsfts adverts have been dull and bland. Xbox need to push their marketing for once they have had the upper hand but have failed to capitalize, if you look at the next generation wars website, xbox has had over a year lead and sony already have sold nearly 2 million consoles compared with the 360's 10 million, by the end of this year sony should have sold over 10 million because of christmas and microsoft will be wondering why, its because of their brand name, they need to change the way people think about their console.

 

[Joebob]

Exactly, Star wars figures where better than He-man in my childhood

I'm with you on this one. Although He-man did have his place, and the skelator figure was pretty cool - actually I was a bit too old for toys when He-man came out.. erm, they were my cousins.. honest!

 

[Joebob]

FrankJH

I cant honestly see joe average being that interested in Blu Ray at the moment. Honestly if it had all the studios behind it and the rental market people would know its a safe technology format. The biggest problem is it hasnt yet proved this. Consumer confidence is low in BD and HD-DVD for that matter. Even Microsoft have publically said they dont know if the HD-DVD format will fail or be successfull but they didnt force customers into buying it.

You do mention some interesting points and this doesnt mean joe average isnt becoming more HiDef aware or an enjoyer of it. Particulary in America where HDTV has been for sale for several years PS3 still hasnt proved to be a high priority entertainment purchase, why?

My own feeling for this is because of HDTV networks and other downloadable services that also allow HD material to be viewed. Thing is the people perhaps have the technology for those services already at home without having to shell out for a new machine or console such as the PS3.

All technology has to hit a price target before it reaches general consumer affordability or where its features outweigh its costs particulary if what it offers makes its price seem like a good purchase. Ask yourself does the press and the current industry say this about the PS3.
A value product it is indeed offering a lot of hardware for the money it costs but is it technology people really want or need? Many forums have discussed what i think is a certainity had the PS3 of come with games on DVD and shipped with a DVD drive at £250 - £299 it would have seen more success. Sony could then of offered a Blu Ray player version at the current price which also played games pressed on DVDs instead using its current Blu Ray drive.

I can completely see what you are saying and I agree that the PS3 is very expensive at the minute. I also agree that BD isn't needed in the console as DVD9 seems to be doing the job fine right now and that your average joe (I hate that term) doesn't know much about HD. BUT, Sony are in it for the long term and will support the console for 10+ years. I'm sure that way before then HD will be the norm and DVD9 just wont cut it anymore. You're looking at the reasons to buy one right now, I look at it as a long term investment.

 

[Joebob]

OMG how could you possibly look at it like that? put it this way people who are saying add a hd dvd drive onto the price of the 360 then they cost practically the same is wrong also. You have a choice to buy a hc dvd player or not. Simple fact is the console costs £425 or in my case its £550 (bundle with hdmi and 3 games and a bluray disk)

There are lots of people who look at it this way, wether you agree with them or not. I have a good mate who is a big PC gamer but never really branched out into consoles (he got a 360 free with a mobile phone a while back and sold it after a couple of months), and he wants a PS3 simply for BD. Being a gamer he will no doubt dabble in the odd game too but he sees it as a cheap BD player with a games console built in - is he wrong to think this way?

 

[magick]

Remember HD DVD or Blu Ray dont offer much over DVD for joe average.
DVD was a major stage up from VHS as it offered menus / chapters / no rewinding / 5.1 audio and of course better video. It also wasnt involved in a format war and all studios backed it.

Im not saying Blu Ray is a bad thing or it will fail but its not that exciting for the average consumer.

DVD was replacing a format 20+ years old. Also DVD would work on 99.999% of televisions people had at home. Blu ray on the other is TRYING to replace a format that is barely 6+ years old and 95% of people, those without HD TV, who buy a PS3 won't seen any benefits watching a blu ray over a dvd apart from nearly twice the cost of a normal DVD.

 

[Rojin]

DVD was replacing a format 20+ years old. Also DVD would work on 99.999% of televisions people had at home. Blu ray on the other is TRYING to replace a format that is barely 6+ years old and 95% of people, those without HD TV, who buy a PS3 won't seen any benefits watching a blu ray over a dvd apart from nearly twice the cost of a normal DVD.

HD sources do still look better on SD screens, it looked superb on my Panny PW6. Of course this will vary from set to set, but to say there will be no difference is wrong. As always if you shop around they can also be had cheaper, I don't think I've paid more than £13 for any of my HD-DVD purchases which isn't too bad for a new format.

 

[magick]

HD sources do still look better on SD screens, it looked superb on my Panny PW6. Of course this will vary from set to set, but to say there will be no difference is wrong. As always if you shop around they can also be had cheaper, I don't think I've paid more than £13 for any of my HD-DVD purchases which isn't too bad for a new format.

I'm not disputing that HD doesn't look a lot better than SD but for the average Joe an extra £300 -at the very least- on top of the cost of the already overpriced PS3 may be a bit to much.

 

[SgtTupac]

I have to say though, it isnt the console which made me buy an XBox 360. It was the games. And i have to say its the only console ive bought which ive enjoyed so much. So many good games out, GOW, Crackdown, PGR3 etc etc. I may buy a PS2 when they come down in price and have a good selection of games. But at the moment, in terms of games (none of this blue-ray rubbish) the Xbox 360 has more to offer? Anyone who doesnt agree.. well..

 

[Darkaber]

I may buy a PS2 when they come down in price and have a good selection of games. But at the moment, in terms of games (none of this blue-ray rubbish) the Xbox 360 has more to offer? Anyone who doesnt agree.. well..

PS2 does have a good selction of games

 

[REDD555]

Seems like I've been buying DVD's for many years now. Blade was my first (pretty sure it was in 1998/9) so nearly 10 years.

Like someone else said, Sony are in it for the longterm so Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will, eventually, take over at some stage I would have thought. Including the drive and bearing in mind HD programming will, supposedly, take over in 2012 i don't think many people will be without a HD telly in the near future surely?

 

[SgtTupac]

PS2 does have a good selction of games

What and good graphics? Ive got a PS2.. Got quite a good few games, but nothing id say which sucked me in as GOW, Crackdown etc..

 

[Abooie]

The first DVD players appeared November 1996 in Japan and March 1997 in the US. The first pressed DVD release was the film Twister in 1996.

It took until 1999 before DVD players were $300 and Walmart stocked them.

DVD rentals first topped those of VHS during the week of June 15, 2003.

It took until 2006 for new releases to stop being released on VHS.

Now the jump from VHS to DVD which offered enhanced picture quality, a smaller neater physical format, the facilties to 'jump' anywhere on the disk, dolby 5.1, extras etc etc took 7 years!

Now 'all' the next gen formats really offer for the film buyer is a jump from 480i to 1080p. That means nothing to 'joe average' and my honest prediction is neither format will win and DVD will still be the format of choice in 2010, and even 2012.

By then digitial downloading / holographic disks will be 'here' and the Blu-ray and HD-DVD specialised formats will be spoken of in the same way laserdisc and umd are now.

HD-DVD should have won as it had the convenience of having the DVD and HD-DVD film on the same physical medium. Studios could have started shipping a single sku for every film without having the expense of radically changing fabrication plants. Rental companies could have stocked one sku and people could carry on buying DVD/HD-DVD disks knowing that one day they might buy a 'HD-DVD' player for the main room but for now they could still play the disk and when they did get it they could still play the disk on their computer, 2nd TV or in the car.

I've no doubt blu-ray will beat HD-DVD as Sonys tactic of shoe horning their format into the market with the Playstation brand seems to be working. It was dying a death before the PS3 was released as Home Movie enthusiasts understood what the DVD consortium were trying to do with HD-DVD and were backing it in droves. However, despite 'winning' the HD sales battle I think they've destroyed the HD format all together. The conveniences I've outlined above mean it will take much longer for the average consumer to show any interest. Pity.

 

[cheets64]

A format will never win until its taken on by dads, grandparents, and this average joe everybody is on about

To play a PS3 you need a HD TV, a decent one is £500+ and that will last you years, I have a bog standard CRT TV no way can I afford to buy a £500 tv and PS3 bundle for £500+ I aint sticking it on my Credit Card

 

[REDD555]

..snip

Thanks for the history lesson chap

I lived in USA so that's probably why I bought discs earlier than most. I remember DVD being the fastest uptake of a new technology in history or something along those lines too.

Doesn't matter. Anway, being the dominant format 10 years from now? Nah, can't see it. I've stopped buying DVD's about 2-3 years ago waiting for the new blu-ray/HD-DVD formats to develop and be released 'cos I realised the quality difference.

On this forum at least, I may be in the minority as a home cinema enthusiast but I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting a 1080p video source to go with all these spanking new tellies.

Talk about prices, I paid £3000 for a 40" rear projection telly 9 years ago and now I can have a 1080p LCD from a top player in the field for just over a grand!

 

[Tunney]

What and good graphics? Ive got a PS2.. Got quite a good few games, but nothing id say which sucked me in as GOW, Crackdown etc..

If you're looking for recommendations, check out God of War. The action is fantastic and puts GoW and Crackdown both to shame when it comes to story-telling.

The sequel is out soon too and it's being widely touted as the Best Game Ever.

If you've played God of War and prefer Crackdown, there must be something wrong with you.

 

[dannyjo22]

Now 'all' the next gen formats really offer for the film buyer is a jump from 480i to 1080p. That means nothing to 'joe average' and my honest prediction is neither format will win and DVD will still be the format of choice in 2010, and even 2012.

By then digitial downloading / holographic disks will be 'here' and the Blu-ray and HD-DVD specialised formats will be spoken of in the same way laserdisc and umd are now..

Until your post I never really considered that in fact neither format could win. Film on demand via downloading would suit my puposes best of all, rather than storing a disc to be watched once every 5 years on a whim.

When you look through your collection at some of the stuff you bought to watch once or twice it just doesnt make financial sense. I doubt other than the big trilogies few of my collection has been in the dvd player more than twice. And how often do you sit and watch a film thats on terrestrial tv or sky even though its in your collection. I even sit there putting up with adverts when I could have just put the disc in the player

 

[REDD555]

Horses for courses. I think bandwidth for proper "streaming" of a 1080p picture is close but not yet.

Anyways, I think we've hijacked this thread enough, let's move to the AV section if we want to continue with this one

 

[Weebull]

Let me guess, you think this is another 'anti-Sony' thread?

You were saying?

Shame really. If the OP had actually bothered to include the other 6 points in the linked article, and not just focus all the attention on the PS3, there could have been a much more interesting discussion here. Instead I've skipped over 99% of this thread because I know it's just going to read:

LOL THE PS3 SUX

No it doesn't.

YES IT DOES STUPID FANBOY

You're a fanboy more

Oh well.

For what it's worth, Hot Coffee was a far bigger disaster than the PS3. Sony are still selling consoles, and really aren't completely screwed like many people seem to want to believe, while HC actually changed the entire industry and got meddling politicians and the general public overly interested in our pasttime. I'd say that's a smidgen worse.

the wii is a toy not ps3 or 360

Hahaha, bless. Aren't you precious.

 

[Clown]

OMG how could you possibly look at it like that? put it this way people who are saying add a hd dvd drive onto the price of the 360 then they cost practically the same is wrong also. You have a choice to buy a hc dvd player or not. Simple fact is the console costs £425 or in my case its £550 (bundle with hdmi and 3 games and a bluray disk)

So for the people who are buying this for the BD player and console aspects of things, it works out just as good?

 

[Talbs13]

Depends on how you look at it really

£200 for a console (absolute bargain)
£200 BR player (complete bargain again)
£25 for inbuilt hdd and wireless - tremendous value

Totally agree. People seem to ignore the fact that it has a BluRay player included which if they wanted to buy on its own would cost them atleast £215+. I think everyone will agree that if your buying a "Sony" product, your going to be paying more, just look at TV's. You get quality products that are reliable unlike the 360.

This stupid fanboy cr*p thats going on has got to stop. Its pathetic, childish and just not needed. I have a Wii,360 and PS3 and love them all for different reasons. Wht cant we all just get along and enjoy our consoles instead of fighting over which is better.

WHO CARES?!