The Top 7... PR disasters

Joebob · 21 Mar 2007 at 13:56

dannyjo22 said:
Until your post I never really considered that in fact neither format could win. Film on demand via downloading would suit my puposes best of all, rather than storing a disc to be watched once every 5 years on a whim.

When you look through your collection at some of the stuff you bought to watch once or twice it just doesnt make financial sense. I doubt other than the big trilogies few of my collection has been in the dvd player more than twice. And how often do you sit and watch a film thats on terrestrial tv or sky even though its in your collection. I even sit there putting up with adverts when I could have just put the disc in the player

I completely agree, although it's still nice to watch some of the 'big trilogies' again in HD it wouldn't warrant me buying a standalone player for this purpose so having it built into a console is a bonus imo as now I can have my cake and eat it - albeit at a premium cost.

I pretty sure there will be a winner from the two new formats over DVD as it seems the big film companies etc are pushing pretty hard to get the technology into peoples homes.

Maybe pushing HD is a way of trying to keep technology moving to combat piracy? A lot of people download movies illegally in DiVX format at around 700MB which they could probably get within a few hours. If you are going HD on the other hand then it's going to make it less accesable except for the hardcore newsgroup users.

I don't think downloading content will be the clear winner this time round. Maybe it will take over form BD or HD-DVD, but as it stands there are still more people with dial up than broadband in the Uk and a hell of a lot of them will have standard speed connections.

Joebob · 21 Mar 2007 at 14:05

was going slightly off topic there so back to the OP.

Does anyone else think that the negative Sony press is going to start all over again after European launch? Things have settled down and gone quiet after the initial launch, but from Friday there will be reason for the Sony knocking stories to come to the limelight again, i.e. "PS3's still sitting on shelves in Europe - shock , horror!".

Windle · 21 Mar 2007 at 14:06

On a 7mb connection it takes me 20 to 30mins tops to pull a 700mb file from a Newsgroup.

Darkaber · 21 Mar 2007 at 14:09

Joebob said:
was going slightly off topic there so back to the OP.

Does anyone else think that the negative Sony press is going to start all over again after European launch? Things have settled down and gone quiet after the initial launch, but from Friday there will be reason for the Sony knocking stories to come to the limelight again, i.e. "PS3's still sitting on shelves in Europe - shock , horror!".

Well they have go a million consoles for the europe launch so im sure a lot will be sitting on shelves come the weekend

REDD555 · 21 Mar 2007 at 14:13

Windle said:
On a 7mb connection it takes me 20 to 30mins tops to pull a 700mb file from a Newsgroup.

Agreed but would you want to be the one uploading a 50Gb Blu-Ray movie rip at about 50kbps upload?

Joebob · 21 Mar 2007 at 16:05

Windle said:
On a 7mb connection it takes me 20 to 30mins tops to pull a 700mb file from a Newsgroup.

But this is exactly my point, we all know how quickly we can get files because most of us on here will have fast access and know the quickest way to download etc. Your average consumer who buys DVD's isn't really gonna have the know how to be downloading stuff just yet. Maybe in 5 or 10 years it will be the main way we buy films and games etc, but I think we are a way off yet.

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:29

Joebob said:
I can completely see what you are saying and I agree that the PS3 is very expensive at the minute. I also agree that BD isn't needed in the console as DVD9 seems to be doing the job fine right now and that your average joe (I hate that term) doesn't know much about HD. BUT, Sony are in it for the long term and will support the console for 10+ years. I'm sure that way before then HD will be the norm and DVD9 just wont cut it anymore. You're looking at the reasons to buy one right now, I look at it as a long term investment.

The PS3's an expensive console its not an expensive multimedia device. The problem is not everyone wants the full 5 course meal that the PS3 has forced onto people. Theyed rather just have the usual, call it a games console and price it like one.

The console aint going to last 10 years in reality. Thats more of Sonys PR your sucking up Its a rather stupid thing to claim as a reason to invest in one. Do you choose your food by its sell by date or by what is your preffered choice or taste? Sure they will support the console perhaps for that amount of time but im certain Microsoft will have a new console arriving within the next 3 years or less. Nintendo and Sony who knows when but in reality the 360 and PS3 are going to look very dated in even 5 years time.

HD-DVD / BLU RAY im not so certain will ever be as popular as DVD was.
Features like Microsoft have proved with their "Market Place" downloads (read latest reports on figures) in USA breaking records for movies and tv will be the future. My reason for thinking this is because im not so sure the vast majority of people even want to collect films anymore. Their happy enough to see them and pay approx £3 - £4 for the pleasure. The other thing is unlike the days of VHS or DVD people now have hundreds of TV stations, the internet and many more ways of being entertained. What they dont have is anymore time in their daily routines so youve instantly got more services available all bidding for your attention. The other things is thousands of people have hundreds of DVDs sitting on the shelves they never watch or have watched once. I know of people that look at their collections and now think how much they spent and regret it. Apart from the avid movie fans we might just find that like the whole itunes philosophy, downloads are were the future lies for all digital entertainment. The average household may not care for fancy packaging or collecting a movie, even a game they just want to enjoy the entertainment it offers.

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:31

Joebob said:
But this is exactly my point, we all know how quickly we can get files because most of us on here will have fast access and know the quickest way to download etc. Your average consumer who buys DVD's isn't really gonna have the know how to be downloading stuff just yet. Maybe in 5 or 10 years it will be the main way we buy films and games etc, but I think we are a way off yet.

I suggest you look into a USA account for the 360 to see how hard it is currently in USA or for that matter soon in the UK to download HDTV or movies. Marketplace or something similar could be used by children and i can only expect with Live Everywhere it will soon feature as an option not only on 360 but in Vista and PCs.

rp2000 · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:34

Mr Latte said:
HD-DVD / BLU RAY im not so certain will ever be as popular as DVD was.
Features like Microsoft have proved with their "Market Place" downloads (read latest reports on figures) in USA breaking records for movies and tv will be the future.

Hi,

Could you please point me in the direction of these figures? As yet I have never seen a single statistic from Microsoft stating the breakdown of sales for Video Market Place. To date they have not even stated how many Gold or Silver members they have. Seen plenty of percentages but never any figures. Why?

Microsoft's xbox live numbers and marketplace stats are just clever PR that some people have fallen for.

rp2000

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:36

Try a google it was reported this week.

Also the point in mentioning it is nothing to do with Microsoft or Marketplace. Im using it as an example of a easy to operate menu system powered by a console that is in millions of homes and easily connects to a HDTV.

Sony will be doing the exact same with PS3, the popularity is in the simplicity and choice of material available.

*Also Marketplace can suffer from poor speeds which overtime im sure will improve. It sure hasnt been putting people off.

rp2000 · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:41

Mr Latte said:
Try a google it was reported this week.

Hi Mr Latte,

Are you talking about this:

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/...toids-and-top-downloads-for-week-of-3-12.aspx

This is just PR (but not a PR disaster as it seems to have worked

), not a single sales figure.

I thought from your thread you had some actual figures. Apologies.

rp2000

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 21:52

I would have to find the report i read, i can look for it but basically Marketplace has created more downloads than any other similar service in the USA. Well that was what they were proclaiming.

Could it be PR and overrated, hell yeah but the service does show a damn lot of content so i see no reason why it wouldnt be popular and its cheap.

Currently 114 films to download and over 100 TV episodes available all updated weekly. Popular shows even have 2-3 seasons worth available to select from.

Even Apple are going in this direction its not new news give it another year or two and im sure it will be big business.

rp2000 · 21 Mar 2007 at 22:04

Mr Latte said:
I would have to find the report i read, i can look for it but basically Marketplace has created more downloads than any other similar service in the USA. Well that was what they were proclaiming.

Could it be PR and overrated, hell yeah but the service does show a damn lot of content so i see no reason why it wouldnt be popular and its cheap.

Currently 114 films to download and over 100 TV episodes available all updated weekly. Popular shows even have 2-3 seasons worth available to select from.

Even Apple are going in this direction its not new news give it another year or two and im sure it will be big business.

Hi, I know all of that already. I'm just saying that without figures to back anything up it is just PR at the moment. Just because there is 114 films does not mean many people are downloading them. At least with blu-ray and hd-dvd there are sales figures available to validate they are increasing in penetration.

I think all of this is the future, maybe 4-5 years away. There is not enough bandwidth in this country and many, many broadband customers use capped services. Less so in USA but still a big stumbling block to this technology ever being mainstream in the next 1-2 years.

I would be genuinely interested if you do manage to find any figures for xbox live video marketplace as I have looked hard and all I ever see is PR.

rp2000

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 22:20

rp2000 said:
Hi, I know all of that already. I'm just saying that without figures to back anything up it is just PR at the moment. Just because there is 114 films does not mean many people are downloading them. At least with blu-ray and hd-dvd there are sales figures available to validate they are increasing in penetration.

I think all of this is the future, maybe 4-5 years away. There is not enough bandwidth in this country and many, many broadband customers use capped services. Less so in USA but still a big stumbling block to this technology ever being mainstream in the next 1-2 years.

I would be genuinely interested if you do manage to find any figures for xbox live video marketplace as I have looked hard and all I ever see is PR.

rp2000

So if figures can be shall we say faked or made to favour a platform be it HD DVD Blu Ray or for that matter Marketplace then none of the figures matter.
Just about every network in the states is supporting it i think its success is
not a case of if but when.

Ask yourself now if you had the chance to view some of the latest movies in Hi Def via your X360 for about £3 would you use it?

I understand what your saying about bandwidth. Again if you told me 3 years ago i would now be on 8m i wouldnt of believed it.

Mr Latte · 21 Mar 2007 at 22:33

Joebob said:
was going slightly off topic there so back to the OP.

Does anyone else think that the negative Sony press is going to start all over again after European launch? Things have settled down and gone quiet after the initial launch, but from Friday there will be reason for the Sony knocking stories to come to the limelight again, i.e. "PS3's still sitting on shelves in Europe - shock , horror!".

I think, personal opinion here that Sony PS3 is simular in a way to George Bush. They both make some odd decisions, say some silly things and do enough silly gaffs that get the media/internet attention and from that you will have people that defend them and people that will ridicule them for their actions...

Chances are when they cut out the BS and do a better job then people have less to ridicule them about really.

PS Hope you like the comparison.

Oh and Windle try a 21Gb file takes a bit longer but its worth it in the end.

rp2000 · 21 Mar 2007 at 22:39

Mr Latte said:
So if figures can be shall we say faked or made to favour a platform be it HD DVD Blu Ray or for that matter Marketplace then none of the figures matter.
Just about every network in the states is supporting it i think its success is
not a case of if but when.

Ask yourself now if you had the chance to view some of the latest movies in Hi Def via your X360 for about £3 would you use it?

I understand what your saying about bandwidth. Again if you told me 3 years ago i would now be on 8m i wouldnt of believed it.

For me the service would be perfect. I am on an uncapped, unthrottled ISP. I am 200 metres from the exchange so can get a full 8MB, could get 16mb or 24mb over copper if I chose and live in a cabled area!! But we have reached a saturation point in this country where most people in the country (people on copper lines) will not be able to get any faster speeds than say 4MB and the ISPs most people are using are capping. We won't get much faster speeds that are viable in terms of cost over copper.

The only reason I don't like the current online models from iTunes and MS is that you download the film and pay for it to view once only. I realise this is not fully in their control (licensing restrictions, DRM et al), but I still think people want something tangible to keep after buying something. You pay for an mp3 you keep it. You pay for a movie online on itunes or xbox and you view once and it deletes itself. Downloading music took a long time to get where it is today, downloading videos online in high quality is still in its infancy imo.

rp2000

Edit: Just noticed how far off topic I have gone.

Van Diemen · 22 Mar 2007 at 01:49

FrankJH said:
Depends on how you look at it really

£200 for a console (absolute bargain)
£200 BR player (complete bargain again)
£25 for inbuilt hdd and wireless - tremendous value

I bought my PS3 in Dubai. cost me £300 (350 with two games & extra controller). quite happy about that.

Like most games players, I dont care about Blue-Ray movies. for me & many like me, A PS3 is for games. I bought my ps2 @ launch, I must have watched no more than 3 DVDs on it.

A PS3 for £425, thats just fraud

V4NT0M · 22 Mar 2007 at 10:37

In my eyes Sony made the following mistakes with the PS3...

Firstly (against the norm of dvd and cd) they decided not to agree on a HD Video format with the rest of the consumer electronics companies, instead the time they spend developing blu ray was too important to them, and they have a lot of movie power behind them to BULLY the other electronics companies into siding with BLU RAY. Then decided to exploit their influence on the home console market including this in the PS3. Sony's conduct with blu-ray is unprofessional and anti-competetive. Similar to Microsoft though they are a MASSIVE company and this is jsut a further investment oppertunity to them. Its exactly this reason why I respect Nintendo so much (note: I bought a 360

)

Secondly they launched the console badly, Microsoft and Nintendo both did global launches, which to me, is a lot more satisfying. People comparing the amount of consoles availible at launch saying Sony has more... They better have a few months down the line, if you imagine Nintendo did the same as Sony and left the UK launch till now... They would have a lot more consoles too... I would rather have it soon than see it on shelves ready for someone else to buy.

Adverts... Someone brought this up in a ntoher thread, when I saw the exploding suitcase advert in the cinema yesterday I thought it was an advert for the tv channel 'living'... Nuff said.

I've never been a fan of sony, but as they've sold hundreds of millions of PS1 and PS2 they definitley know how to sell these things... So why make such a mess of it now...

My 2c, flame away if i'm wrong

REDD555 · 22 Mar 2007 at 11:21

Skyfall said:
In my eyes Sony made the following mistakes with the PS3...

Firstly (against the norm of dvd and cd) they decided not to agree on a HD Video format with the rest of the consumer electronics companies, instead the time they spend developing blu ray was too important to them, and they have a lot of movie power behind them to BULLY the other electronics companies into siding with BLU RAY. Then decided to exploit their influence on the home console market including this in the PS3. Sony's conduct with blu-ray is unprofessional and anti-competetive. Similar to Microsoft though they are a MASSIVE company and this is jsut a further investment oppertunity to them. Its exactly this reason why I respect Nintendo so much (note: I bought a 360 )

Semi agree but I think a next gen console does need a next gen media from the outset. Pushing BluRay is just business I guess.

Skyfall said:
Secondly they launched the console badly, Microsoft and Nintendo both did global launches, which to me, is a lot more satisfying. People comparing the amount of consoles availible at launch saying Sony has more... They better have a few months down the line, if you imagine Nintendo did the same as Sony and left the UK launch till now... They would have a lot more consoles too... I would rather have it soon than see it on shelves ready for someone else to buy.

The delay and pricing is unforgiveable but I think it's better to have plenty of stock on launch than people (who actually want a console to play and not sell) than selling out due to profiteers ala Wii and 360. Flippin' eck, Wii's are still like Rocking Horse do-do months after launch. Pants launch as far as I'm concerned (even though I got one).

Skyfall said:
Adverts... Someone brought this up in a ntoher thread, when I saw the exploding suitcase advert in the cinema yesterday I thought it was an advert for the tv channel 'living'... Nuff said.

LOL. Totally agree.

Skyfall said:
I've never been a fan of sony, but as they've sold hundreds of millions of PS1 and PS2 they definitley know how to sell these things... So why make such a mess of it now...

Yep. Time will tell but I think, in the long run and after some price cuts, it will end up a success.

EDIT: Flippin' eck! Can never get this quote thing working properly! LOL

Pablo72 · 22 Mar 2007 at 11:45

FrankJH said:
compared to £50 rrp for most MS games

I've had a 360 for over a month now... never paid even close to £50.00 for a game. The most was £37.00 for Project 8... and I would have paid an extra fiver for that, excellent game, well designed, worth the price tag.