The Windows 8 Thread

Alasdairhurst · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:23

R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Windows 8? I've only just finally upgraded to 7 from XP!

and between the release of XP and now, Apple has released 8 operating systems versus the 3 of MS (including xp)

It funny how people were saying the same with windows 7 from vista with a 3 year gap in between. Windows is the LEAST updated major opertaing system

(Ubuntu is twice a year, try to keep up with that

)

Photek · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:33

Alasdairhurst said:
The tile UI is the main one for both tablet and desktop, but the traditional deskop is accessible as an "app"

Not true... see here.

Although MS have not yet said what UI you can boot in to but i'm sure you will be able to set this or the OS will just detect the type of device you're using and set UI accordingly

But having a touch UI as the main UI on a desktop and laptop would be suicide for Windows, it would be going backwards 20 years and annoy about 95% of Window users. Sales would be 10x worse than Vista. Metro UI is for touch devices like tablets. But! luckily MS realise this...

"The mechanisms that people rely on today (mice, physical keyboards, trackpads) don’t suddenly become less useful or “bad” just because touch is also provided as a first-class option. These tools are quite often the most ergonomic, fast, and powerful ways of getting many things done."

Subliminal Aura · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:33

Photek said:
It's not HTML5 at all. But it supports HTML5 apps. And it's very innovative IMO... it looks much better and more modern than Android or iOS which this Metro interface is going to be competing with on touch devices. Theres a whole new developer platform and framework for it too, it's not simply a skin, far from it.

OK You've misinterpreted what I meant by skin, not to worry. Also please explain by what you mean by it's not HTML5 at all :confused:

I just read this and it reaffirms my understanding of a windows class extension(Jupiter) encapsulating HTML5/JS apps ?

http://www.osnews.com/story/24846/Windows_8_HTML5_JS_Comment_Causes_Panic_Among_Developers

Maybe I've missed something ? - Sorry I'm very new to win8

panyan · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:35

i cant wait for windows 8, it seems more and more like OSX where everything is just built into the OS so you dont need to install a bunch of other stuff to start using your computer

Pixellated · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:36

I think I may stick to Windows 7 for a good while. It's a stable, non-buggy x64 release, and there's no fear it may be modified to try and look like a phone.

Subliminal Aura · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:38

panyan said:
i cant wait for windows 8, it seems more and more like OSX where everything is just built into the OS so you dont need to install a bunch of other stuff to start using your computer

No far from it ... It appears more like a layer on top of windows 7 very cheap hack indeed. Probably windows 9 will be the release that fully delivers the concept

Pixellated said:
I think I may stick to Windows 7 for a good while. It's a stable, non-buggy x64 release, and there's no fear it may be modified to try and look like a phone.

+1 win8 smells like vista

Alasdairhurst · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:43

Photek said:
Not true... see here.

Although MS have not yet said what UI you can boot in to but i'm sure you will be able to set this or the OS will just detect the type of device you're using and set UI accordingly
But having a touch UI as the main UI on a desktop and laptop would be suicide for Windows, it would be going backwards 20 years and annoy about 95% of Window users. Sales would be 10x worse than Vista. Metro UI is for touch devices like tablets. But! luckily MS realise this...

http://www.windows8news.com/2011/08/31/windows-8-dual-user-interface-revealed/

Sinofsky said:
Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app.

panyan · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:47

Subliminal Aura said:
No far from it ... It appears more like a layer on top of windows 7 very cheap hack indeed. Probably windows 9 will be the release that fully delivers the concept

mmm, i see what you mean, but i really hope your wrong...

Photek · 1 Sep 2011 at 22:50

Subliminal Aura said:
OK You've misinterpreted what I meant by skin, not to worry. Also please explain by what you mean by it's not HTML5 at all

I just read this and it reaffirms my understanding of a windows class extension(Jupiter) encapsulating HTML5/JS apps ?

http://www.osnews.com/story/24846/Windows_8_HTML5_JS_Comment_Causes_Panic_Among_Developers

Maybe I've missed something ? - Sorry I'm very new to win8

I meant the actual Metro interface itself is not built (coded) using HTML5.
But it's capable of running HTML5 and JavaScript apps. Thats also what the article you linked to is about... many developers are worried that the new Metro UI will not support apps/software made with Microsofts own coding languages like .NET or SilverLight, which many Windows software is currently built with (although i think it will use these, it's likely MS just aint announced it yet).

Either way i'd expect a lot of apps from Android and iOS to appear on the new Metro UI because they're often made with HTML5 and JavaScript so could be easily ported... infact i think there will likely be a Microsoft app store for Metro UI/Tablet users of Win 8.

Photek · 1 Sep 2011 at 23:07

Subliminal Aura said:
No far from it ... It appears more like a layer on top of windows 7 very cheap hack indeed. Probably windows 9 will be the release that fully delivers the concept

It's not another layer on top of Windows. Read the post i linked.
The desktop UI and other parts of windows are not even loaded when using Metro. Also in the leaked Win 8 builds the code for metro is in the core of the operating system, it's not something just dumped on top. Theres new API's and frameworks for it.

Win 8 development started before Win 7 was finished, so they've had the time to do things properly here.
In order to get Win 8 running well on far less powerful touch devices like tablets MS have made many changes and optimisations to the core of Win 8 and also got rid of much ancient legacy code. The leaked Win 8 builds for instance show all of this, you can view the code in them, and these early Win 8 builds run faster than win 7, or even XP, yet the OS is still nowhere near complete.

As for the quote: "Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app." ....He's only summing it for laymen here. Just calling it an "app" is easy for non-technical users to understand, but it's really nothing like an app.

Subliminal Aura · 1 Sep 2011 at 23:12

Photek said:
I meant the actual Metro interface itself is not built (coded) using HTML5.
But it's capable of running HTML5 and JavaScript apps. Thats also what the article you linked to is about... many developers are worried that the new Metro UI will not support apps/software made with Microsofts own coding languages like .NET or SilverLight, which many Windows software is currently built with (although i think it will use these, it's likely MS just aint announced it yet).

But that's just the UI - A UI is pointless without an app and app functionality is delivered via HTML5/JS as I've emphasised earlier.

Microsoft is doing the right thing here albeit following the lead of Google

Photek said:
Either way i'd expect a lot of apps from Android and iOS to appear on the new Metro UI because they're often made with HTML5 and JavaScript so could be easily ported... infact i think there will likely be a Microsoft app store for Metro UI/Tablet users of Win 8.

Not sure I follow your reasoning, android/iOS apps are mostly native but the shift to cloud apps / HTML5 will be more prevalent in the near future

EDIT: ok I'll take a look at that buid myself and see how much of it is true. You're probably right and it would be impressive to see msoft deliver it for next year

Photek · 1 Sep 2011 at 23:49

Subliminal Aura said:
But that's just the UI - A UI is pointless without an app and app functionality is delivered via HTML5/JS as I've emphasised earlier.

Microsoft is doing the right thing here albeit following the lead of Google

To be honest i hate HTML5... It's highly overrated. I sometimes make apps myself, and using HTML5 is just going backwards.
.NET, SilverLight, or any of the C based languages are far better to use and the dev tools are superior. With HTML5 you often have to use all different languages to make something... JavaScript, CSS, PHP, HTML to name a few. It's a mess. With something like .NET you just have one powerful language that does it all. Not only is it MUCH easier to develop with you often get far better performance, something you need on a less powerful tablet. Big mistake if MS only allow HTML5 based apps for the Metro UI... </end rant>

BTW i think the last leaked Win 8 build is build number 7989, it's pretty old and dont even have the Metro UI working, but the code for the UI is mostly there. I think MS are now up to build 8060-ish.
Oh and you might find this interesting (it has findings regarding the UI)

Subliminal Aura · 2 Sep 2011 at 15:56

Photek said:
To be honest i hate HTML5... It's highly overrated. I sometimes make apps myself, and using HTML5 is just going backwards.
.NET, SilverLight, or any of the C based languages are far better to use and the dev tools are superior.

Without extending e-peen I've got a long history of developing using 'real' languages but HTML5 to cloud/SaaS is the future. Services will reside in the cloud and as HTML5 improves - offline client tasks will become more feature rich.

I run Joli OS on laptops which is a HTML5 layer on top of ubuntu and I've just seen that gnome 3.2 will have a web store too, so as you can see 'everyone' is on the HTML5 bandwagon. If anything microsoft and google have a common goal against Oracle.

Of course this doesn't mean that HTML5 is any good - it's just a stop gap as the emphasis moves towards shifting everyone to SaaS over the next couple of years.

You're still thinking yesteryear mate. If you've not created any cloud apps by now then you're a good couple of years behind.

Photek said:
Big mistake if MS only allow HTML5 based apps for the Metro UI... </end rant>

Of course not, no one is going to shoot themselves in the foot. I wouldn't be surprised if MS decided to allow support for evil Oracle's Java - If anything that would further aid porting android apps

Subliminal Aura · 2 Sep 2011 at 17:10

More fuel to the fire...

Google APIs for .NET

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2011/09/google-apis-client-library-for-net-beta.html

Along with potential support for Windows mobile 7.

Glaucus · 2 Sep 2011 at 17:36

I can't wait for this, admittedly for tablets. But hey it's also looking like some nice albeit cosmetic changes for desktops as well. But if like windows 7 it's £40 again, the it's well worth it. Also I bet there's a fair bit more than cosmetics that we will find out later on. I expect software to become more like apps, windows desktop app store and different installation rules for developers.

I also wouldn't be surprised if once you use ribbons and even metro you won't go back. Software has a habit of disgusting you at first, but you soon adjust and like it more than the original.
Metro looks spot on for htpc as well.

thewanted · 2 Sep 2011 at 21:15

Engadget had a picture of the new Start Menu up yesterday.

Sauce

theheyes · 2 Sep 2011 at 23:02

When they discounted Windows 7 at launch, was that just for Home Premium or could you get Pro at that price too? I can't remember.

Glaucus · 2 Sep 2011 at 23:08

They were all reduced iirc. Think home prem was 45ish and professional 80ish.

EdwardTeach · 2 Sep 2011 at 23:12

Its a case of wait and see for me. I am cautiously optimistic/ interested as I have a Dell Duo and the tablet/ touch features of W8 are likely to offer a big improvement of W7.

I am still interested about how W8 on ARM processors will work. My assumption is that it will be totally new code, separate from x86 W8 and will to be able to run most legacy windows software.

CaptainCrash · 2 Sep 2011 at 23:27

Windows Media Center not for the chop after all

There have been suggestions over the past few months that MS has effectively written off the HTPC market and that WMC development has been abandoned (except maybe in some kind of embedded form for standalone devices), but apparently it will "definitely" feature in Windows 8.

I'm quite pleased, I know there are more sophisticated HTPC solutions around, but WMC works nicely out-of-the-box with a minimum of faffing, for me at least.