Thinking of collecting vinyl

Psycho Sonny said:
i buy cd's too for the superior quality but they are to listen to in the car, even though I have DAB radio, Bluetooth and USB, etc int here too.

you can't stick a vinyl on in the car. which is my point vinyl is just so limited and if you don't already have a collection sitting around pointless starting one now.
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This "I can't play it in the car/gym/at the beach" is a problem for you, but not for some of the rest of us. I am happy to use different media formats to suit the listening environment. Chances are too that I have most of the tracks in digital format that are on a vinyl album, so it's not like I am missing out.

I am perfectly happy to play MP3 in-car because the additional quality of CD is often wasted where there's background noise. That doesn't mean that I can't or won't play CD in the car; it's just not that critical.
 
lucid said:
This "I can't play it in the car/gym/at the beach" is a problem for you, but not for some of the rest of us. I am happy to use different media formats to suit the listening environment. Chances are too that I have most of the tracks in digital format that are on a vinyl album, so it's not like I am missing out.

I am perfectly happy to play MP3 in-car because the additional quality of CD is often wasted where there's background noise. That doesn't mean that I can't or won't play CD in the car; it's just not that critical.
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just need bigger and better speakers to drown out background noise.

i have the DSP Carver system in the Z4 which is a 2 seater sports car and it comes with 4 subwoofers, 6 mid range speakers (4 bigger speakers and 2 smaller ones) and 2 tiny tweeters. so that is 12 speakers total in a 2 seater car. i decided to upgrade the original system further the bmw amp is £1300 and the only third market option i found which works was £600 and it still isn't powerful enough to drive them much past 30 without clipping. so i use it around 25-30 which is plenty loud. ended up spending the best part of £1500-£2000 upgrading it further as it needed a full re-wire, crossovers, etc. this is on top of the factory option which was around £2500 iirc.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
i buy cd's too for the superior quality but they are to listen to in the car, even though I have DAB radio, Bluetooth and USB, etc int here too.

you can't stick a vinyl on in the car. which is my point vinyl is just so limited and if you don't already have a collection sitting around pointless starting one now.
Click to expand...


Some strong words there, and I'm a little surprised at you commenting on a car stereo as being comparable to a "good" home system. Regardless of the number of drivers in use, you’re talking about a massively compromised listening environment, which is then also needing to deal with potentially large amounts of background noise (road, engine, other vehicles).

Frankly, the car environment is bit of a mess, which is why I have no issues with using MP3 on the move, but wouldn’t give it the time of day in the home environment.


Your comments about CD outperforming vinyl also make me wonder, for two reasons.

Firstly, it infers that you think that CD is the pinnacle of an audio format, i.e. 16bit. Bearing in mind that we already have “some” availability of 24 bit audio, whether that’s streaming from Quboz, buying from HDtracks and similar, or using something vaguely equivalent, i.e. MQA. You might not be able to tell the difference in a car, and certainly not with the mindset of “speakers are the most important element of a system”, but I certainly can in my home system.


Secondly, it infers that you’ve never heard a serious vinyl fronted system. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t give cheap record decks the time of day, but IMO once you’ve above a couple of £100, I think that vinyl rigs have the advantage and it takes a LOT of dosh on a digital front end to gain comparable performance.

If you think I’m nuts, go to the next Scalford Wigwam show, which is a show run by enthusiasts just turning up with their own gear, to show what’s possible with some effort. Every time I’ve been, it’s the vinyl systems that have best shined, and the for me, the only digital systems close were using some pretty awesome kit such as Wadia or Esoteric units.


Just for context, I’m not even in a vinyl user, and stream from a home server. It required throwing a good deal of cash at the problem for me to be genuinely happy with digital.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Some strong words there, and I'm a little surprised at you commenting on a car stereo as being comparable to a "good" home system. Regardless of the number of drivers in use, you’re talking about a massively compromised listening environment, which is then also needing to deal with potentially large amounts of background noise (road, engine, other vehicles).

Frankly, the car environment is bit of a mess, which is why I have no issues with using MP3 on the move, but wouldn’t give it the time of day in the home environment.


Your comments about CD outperforming vinyl also make me wonder, for two reasons.

Firstly, it infers that you think that CD is the pinnacle of an audio format, i.e. 16bit. Bearing in mind that we already have “some” availability of 24 bit audio, whether that’s streaming from Quboz, buying from HDtracks and similar, or using something vaguely equivalent, i.e. MQA. You might not be able to tell the difference in a car, and certainly not with the mindset of “speakers are the most important element of a system”, but I certainly can in my home system.


Secondly, it infers that you’ve never heard a serious vinyl fronted system. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t give cheap record decks the time of day, but IMO once you’ve above a couple of £100, I think that vinyl rigs have the advantage and it takes a LOT of dosh on a digital front end to gain comparable performance.

If you think I’m nuts, go to the next Scalford Wigwam show, which is a show run by enthusiasts just turning up with their own gear, to show what’s possible with some effort. Every time I’ve been, it’s the vinyl systems that have best shined, and the for me, the only digital systems close were using some pretty awesome kit such as Wadia or Esoteric units.


Just for context, I’m not even in a vinyl user, and stream from a home server. It required throwing a good deal of cash at the problem for me to be genuinely happy with digital.
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i thought it had already been proven 24 bit was snake oil. as in it takes what would be in a 16 bit signal and just spreads it up to take up more space.

as in it doesn't contain anything more that the human ear can hear
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Some strong words there, and I'm a little surprised at you commenting on a car stereo as being comparable to a "good" home system. Regardless of the number of drivers in use, you’re talking about a massively compromised listening environment, which is then also needing to deal with potentially large amounts of background noise (road, engine, other vehicles).

Frankly, the car environment is bit of a mess, which is why I have no issues with using MP3 on the move, but wouldn’t give it the time of day in the home environment.


Your comments about CD outperforming vinyl also make me wonder, for two reasons.

Firstly, it infers that you think that CD is the pinnacle of an audio format, i.e. 16bit. Bearing in mind that we already have “some” availability of 24 bit audio, whether that’s streaming from Quboz, buying from HDtracks and similar, or using something vaguely equivalent, i.e. MQA. You might not be able to tell the difference in a car, and certainly not with the mindset of “speakers are the most important element of a system”, but I certainly can in my home system.


Secondly, it infers that you’ve never heard a serious vinyl fronted system. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t give cheap record decks the time of day, but IMO once you’ve above a couple of £100, I think that vinyl rigs have the advantage and it takes a LOT of dosh on a digital front end to gain comparable performance.

If you think I’m nuts, go to the next Scalford Wigwam show, which is a show run by enthusiasts just turning up with their own gear, to show what’s possible with some effort. Every time I’ve been, it’s the vinyl systems that have best shined, and the for me, the only digital systems close were using some pretty awesome kit such as Wadia or Esoteric units.


Just for context, I’m not even in a vinyl user, and stream from a home server. It required throwing a good deal of cash at the problem for me to be genuinely happy with digital.
Click to expand...

i thought it had already been proven 24 bit was snake oil. as in it takes what would be in a 16 bit signal and just spreads it up to take up more space.

as in it doesn't contain anything more that the human ear can hear
 
If you buy into vinyl you can get the best of both worlds, and later get an a2d to digitize it at high resolution ... works for me anyway , capturing that analogue intimacy.

The streamed TIDAL high res productions 24/196 do sound good though, better than their lossless cd's. 16/44.1

for cars, although a convertible probably has special needs, I now wonder if less maybe more,
the trade-off of many speakered (atificially constructed) surround sound, with dsp to try and equalise delay/response for all occupants, versus,
fewer better quality components, just reproducing the stereo field,
this bmw thread, I had posted in motors, being a case in point https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1506949
 
https://imgur.com/a/6PO8jcV

This is why I love vinyl...because on the way home on Fridays I can drop into my local little record store, have a cheeky beer with the owner, spin some tunes, and pick up some great records that I would never have been recommended by an algorithm in a million years.
 
Before I continue any more, i'll first say that vinyl has a unique sound, the best audio source I ever heard in my house was a 1970's Pioneer PL570. So vinyl can sound amazing.

However I think it's no coincidence that the rise in vinyl coincides with the rise of cheap Chinese audio players, I think there is a lot of people that compare to cheap DAC's, cheap MP3's players, streaming on phones, these devices have poor quality analogue output stages. These mass produced digital players tend to be cold, and sharp with the sound. Where as the premium digital sources, expensive CD player, expensive sound card, expensive DAC's, these have a more natural sound that your average consumer would not realise.

So just to clarify what i'm saying, yes vinyl can sound amazing, however if you owned a high end CD player or DAC (lets face it most people don't), you might not think vinyl is as good as compared to streaming audio from say an Android phone.

And before you disagree with the above, look at all the people that think motherboard audio is good. Anyone who has a good sound card or external DAC knows that motherboard audio is poor. So if your one of the people that think motherboard audio is good, you will think that vinyl is better than it actually is, where the truth is your reference point for digital audio is low.
 
In 1980 I had 3,000 vinyl albums and I've given every one away except for about 10 in the attic.
I have no idea why people want to put themselves through this.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
In 1980 I had 3,000 vinyl albums and I've given every one away except for about 10 in the attic.
I have no idea why people want to put themselves through this.
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Perhaps to experience the fun of vinyl that you experienced in the '80's. It will possibly be fun to entertain his friends who may not have seen a record player before. who knows.
The guys spent £200 on a cheap turntable and some half decent powered speakers. It's not like he's made a large investment here and said he's going to buy a Sondek.
In a few years, my kids might get a CD player for nostalgic reasons !
 
Psycho Sonny said:
i thought it had already been proven 24 bit was snake oil. as in it takes what would be in a 16 bit signal and just spreads it up to take up more space.

as in it doesn't contain anything more that the human ear can hear
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Incorrect. An actual 24 bit recording (as opposed to upsampling) is maths and engineering , not snake oil. It has an actual higher dynamic range just like 192Khz sample rates has an extended frequency response. There is no debate there. If you mean, "can anyone tell the difference" , that depends on the listener and their system. Many will say that CD quality offers the best dynamic range and frequency response that humans can hear (hence why they created the Redbook standard), others will strongly disagree. There is no conclusion to that debate, only opinions.
 
gEd said:
Perhaps to experience the fun of vinyl that you experienced in the '80's. It will possibly be fun to entertain his friends who may not have seen a record player before. who knows.
The guys spent £200 on a cheap turntable and some half decent powered speakers. It's not like he's made a large investment here and said he's going to buy a Sondek.
In a few years, my kids might get a CD player for nostalgic reasons !
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A lot of the attraction to vinyl is the showpiece of a massive record spinning around and the needle, etc.

You dont get that with CD, so I highly doubt people will buy CDs for nostalgia. Retro is in but it has to be the right type of retro for hipsters.
 
gEd said:
Perhaps to experience the fun of vinyl that you experienced in the '80's. It will possibly be fun to entertain his friends who may not have seen a record player before. who knows.
The guys spent £200 on a cheap turntable and some half decent powered speakers. It's not like he's made a large investment here and said he's going to buy a Sondek.
In a few years, my kids might get a CD player for nostalgic reasons !
Click to expand...

It wasn't fun though, it was an actual PITA to get off my bum to swap sides or skip tracks but this was my only choice.
It was a joy when I had a record player that counted the tracks first and I could use the remote to skip tracks but you still had to get up.
It was many years before I could transfer to cassette tape to play in the car.
I bought my first vinyl at the age of 12 in 1970 so that gives some idea on how many years I had to suffer that technology.

It's quite funny what you say about gear.
My nephew was about 15 and hounded his mum & dad for a record deck and several albums.
They bought him one of these £50 decks with 2" speakers built in and he swore blind it was better than FLACS through his digital player.
 
There must be something about vinyl, I sold my old, non working Rega Planar 3 that I hadn't used for over 20 years for ~£200. It was in a good condition but the turntable didn't spin when I tested it. I only wanted a few pounds for it but from the amount of people interested in it then there are still quite a few collectors, fans out there.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
It wasn't fun though, it was an actual PITA to get off my bum to swap sides or skip tracks but this was my only choice.
It was a joy when I had a record player that counted the tracks first and I could use the remote to skip tracks but you still had to get up.
It was many years before I could transfer to cassette tape to play in the car.
I bought my first vinyl at the age of 12 in 1970 so that gives some idea on how many years I had to suffer that technology.

It's quite funny what you say about gear.
My nephew was about 15 and hounded his mum & dad for a record deck and several albums.
They bought him one of these £50 decks with 2" speakers built in and he swore blind it was better than FLACS through his digital player.
Click to expand...

Those decks destroy records
 
MartinPrince said:
There must be something about vinyl, I sold my old, non working Rega Planar 3 that I hadn't used for over 20 years for ~£200. It was in a good condition but the turntable didn't spin when I tested it. I only wanted a few pounds for it but from the amount of people interested in it then there are still quite a few collectors, fans out there.
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The Planar 3 is a classic. I'm sure the RB300? tonearm would still fetch very good money on its own.
 
Well she finally turned up.

0a2FwcE.jpg


Also went to the local record shop, was great talking to them, come away with a few albums, I'm sure they're not to everyone's taste :P

2hhazhQ.jpg
 
MartinPrince said:
There must be something about vinyl,
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It's called nostalgia and people will quickly get bored because of cost, quality and having to get up all the time.
I have four mates with very large collections and when I say large I mean large, all of them just use Spotify or similar now.

This is one of my mates rooms, it goes all the way down the left for at least another 10 foot, across the back and up the right side wall. He sent me this because two of the rows on the left were all mine that I'd given him.

vinyl.jpg
 
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