Thinking of collecting vinyl

that quantity of vinyl looks like an obsession, or a business,
you would be able to afford a high quality playback system and would have a core number of favourites near that system in arms reach, to benfit, as talon says,
from the predominately better quality they offer, if there are even digital versions of those recordings.

I guess most modern vinyl is now being produced via high res digital masters though ?
 
TALON1973 said:
Bored of quality ???? :eek::eek: Apart from a few duffers, my vinyl craps all over cd versions.
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and that my friends is the myth.

Bands record in digital, master in digital and then it loses quality by being transferred to vinyl but some will believe it's better :)
This obviously changes for some old recordings but a digital master from an old master tape will be superior.
 
my masters comment was a rhetorical remark -
... practicallyt it is probably a 24/384 master not accessible to us mortals .... and the question becomes what is the equivalent bit rate of vinyl ?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
It's called nostalgia and people will quickly get bored because of cost, quality and having to get up all the time.
I have four mates with very large collections and when I say large I mean large, all of them just use Spotify or similar now.

This is one of my mates rooms, it goes all the way down the left for at least another 10 foot, across the back and up the right side wall. He sent me this because two of the rows on the left were all mine that I'd given him.

vinyl.jpg
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All that can be stored onto a microsd as lossless. Lol
 
Putting aside any discussion about quality, the main reason I buy vinyl and CDs is to support the artists I like, because smaller artists get jack **** from the likes of Spotify.
 
Not sure why people are arguing over the merits of vinyl, all points are pretty moot.

I'm no audiophile whatsoever, never had a vinyl player, always been a day zero adopter of digital and streaming etc, but there is something tangible about vinyl, as agreed by with all those fuelling the resurgence of it. Only a couple of months ago did a vinyl shop and bar open up on my road.

I've been to a few places, Airbnb mostly, where they've had a vinyl player and I think put simply, it's just fun. Selecting the albums, actually putting them on, limited choice, etc. It's not for everyone but it's pointless arguing against anyone for or against because it's pretty much an opinion.

I came across this thread because I'm looking to get one for the new house where we have a 2nd reception room and just grabbing the odd £2/3 vinyl here and there as well as a few 'key' albums that I used to own or listen to digitally a lot. We only listen to music when we have guests anyway so it'll make it more of a thing rather than the same old Spotify playlist (plus my amp, speakers etc will be with the TV in the other room so I need a new system regardless).

The first few posts are already really useful so thanks to all those that have contributed to the OP.

Edit OT:

I *really* like the look of the Pro-Ject Primary E! I know this is a pretty budget setup, but anyone have any comments on this setup?

The amp will only be used for the turntable so don't want to go crazy as it's not like it'll have extra uses (TV etc). Same for the speakers.

I know it doesn't really matter but it looks as though the Primary E is pretty much the exact same size (330x420mm) as the AM5 (340x430mm) as well so should sit neatly on top?

RjGmJ3V.png
 
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Russinating said:
Not sure why people are arguing over the merits of vinyl, all points are pretty moot.

I'm no audiophile whatsoever, never had a vinyl player, always been a day zero adopter of digital and streaming etc, but there is something tangible about vinyl, as agreed by with all those fuelling the resurgence of it. Only a couple of months ago did a vinyl shop and bar open up on my road.

I've been to a few places, Airbnb mostly, where they've had a vinyl player and I think put simply, it's just fun. Selecting the albums, actually putting them on, limited choice, etc. It's not for everyone but it's pointless arguing against anyone for or against because it's pretty much an opinion.

I came across this thread because I'm looking to get one for the new house where we have a 2nd reception room and just grabbing the odd £2/3 vinyl here and there as well as a few 'key' albums that I used to own or listen to digitally a lot. We only listen to music when we have guests anyway so it'll make it more of a thing rather than the same old Spotify playlist (plus my amp, speakers etc will be with the TV in the other room so I need a new system regardless).

The first few posts are already really useful so thanks to all those that have contributed to the OP.

Edit OT:

I *really* like the look of the Pro-Ject Primary E! I know this is a pretty budget setup, but anyone have any comments on this setup?

The amp will only be used for the turntable so don't want to go crazy as it's not like it'll have extra uses (TV etc). Same for the speakers.

I know it doesn't really matter but it looks as though the Primary E is pretty much the exact same size (330x420mm) as the AM5 (340x430mm) as well so should sit neatly on top?

RjGmJ3V.png
Click to expand...

Just v quickly checking, but it doesn't look like the AM5 has a built in phono stage, so you'd need a separate one.

Probably better to get an amp with one integrated, less clutter, and cheap separate ones are pretty awful. I have a Denon a9010 which is a really solid basic stereo amp, with integrated phono stage. Has a pretty decent DAC too so I can feed my AV audio through it too.

I'd seriously look at some second hand speakers over spending that little on a new pair.

Passive speakers don't really have stuff that will degrade like electronics so you can happily buy older stuff. You could probably pick up a pair of older B&W 600 series bookshelf speakers for not far off that money on fleabay and have vastly better sound.
 
JasonM said:
In regard to vinyl sound quality I don't think it's anything to do with resolution. I think instead vinyl is changing sound in some way.
If you don't believe this play videos from 'MrVinylObessive' on You tube. Sounds pretty good me yet I run my DAC at 44.1 24bit only!!
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whilst I agree it may not be resolution - any additional frequency response from vinyl is above 20Khz/human hearing and the cd has better dynamic range,
10-years ago there used to be an argument that you had to spend 2-3x the price of a turntable to get a dac that sounded as good, but turntables are no longer mass produced, versus better seminconductor/dac design processes and manufacturing. ... maybe you have to pay the same now ? ... but most consumers will not be listening to a dac that costs £145, rather that, and the ancililiary electronics, in an integrated amp are going to be significantly cheaper. £20-£30 ?

Youtube music however 128Kb/s webm codec is pretty dire, lowfi, compared to tidal basic 250Kb/s aac. .. does no one else agree (previous threads ...)

Russinating said:
all points are pretty moot.
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moot - how ? you want good music quality value, for money ? and convenience plays too.

hornetstinger said:
All that can be stored onto a microsd as lossless. Lol
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as you say, one day, when we get atom by atom nano-storage
 
jpaul said:
moot - how ? you want good music quality value, for money ? and convenience plays too.
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Because they're just opinions. You could fit ultra-high res scans of all the works of art in the world onto a hard drive too, but I'm sure you're not suggesting museums are pointless.

Like I said I'm not an audiophile at all but I can still understand why people have vinyl collections. If you assign value to any hobby simply based on cost and quality then most are pointless.
 
Jpaul, I actually mentioned one of your points quite a number of posts back.

What i'm saying is it's no coincidence that Vinyl has risen in popularity the same time cheaper Chinese electronics have flooded the market. Most of the cheaper digital sources don't have good analogue output stages, so if your only use to these cheaper mass produced devices the warm natural tones of vinyl will be even more exaggerated to the listener.

Everyone is choosing DAC's on if they are 32bit/384Hz if it has this is must be good, the truth is it's the analogue stage that comes after and this costs money to get correct. If you watch PSAudio videos on DAC's they say it's all about the analogue stage of a DAC not the chip.

Going back to point above, it's known that some of the 80's/90's CD players had a warm sound to them. I have an old Memorex CD player (RRP was was £270 30 years ago, I was 16yo then), and if take the cover off the CD player there is loads of analogue electronics, but in return it has this soft sound.

Going back to Vinyl I think the warm & natural sound of Vinyl is because it does not have the hard edge of digital, I expect the process of cutting that plastic, then the pickup needle is taking it away, and this is making it easy to listen to.

So to summarise what i'm saying, vinyl is good because.

1) The cutting process and pickup of the needle takes hard edges away from the sound, producing a very relaxing and natural sound.
2) People are listening to junk digital sources, mother board audio, laptops, cheap DAC's, smart phones, and this is making the vinyl sound better as they have no quality DAC to compare to.
 
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Vinyl being better than CD is a myth.

It's simply coloured audio due to the nature of vinyl.

If you want coloured audio from a CD just buy a tube disc or tube amp or both.

Listen to CDs from a cheap tube setup from schiit (£250) and then tell me vinyl sounds better. Something like the schiit vali 2 would be a good starting point for an amp. Get a decent dac too
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Vinyl being better than CD is a myth.

It's simply coloured audio due to the nature of vinyl.

If you want coloured audio from a CD just buy a tube disc or tube amp or both.

Listen to CDs from a cheap tube setup from schiit (£250) and then tell me vinyl sounds better. Something like the schiit vali 2 would be a good starting point for an amp. Get a decent dac too
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You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong.
Do explain what kit you've actually compared as it sounds like you've never put the effort in to actually do the research either way.

For context, I've heard all sorts including:
- Digital sources from Wadia, Esoteric, Linn, Naim, DCS etc
- A huge level of vinyl systems, including top end LP12s, Voyds, Kronos, Michells etc
On a day to day level I use a Meridian source.

Trying to give a definitive "I know" based upon experience of a £200 DAC is hardly representative of having dem'd systems fronted by a £20k DCS or Kronos system. It's like your average punter trying to explain why a Ferrari might be better than a Lambo.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong.
Do explain what kit you've actually compared as it sounds like you've never put the effort in to actually do the research either way.

For context, I've heard all sorts including:
- Digital sources from Wadia, Esoteric, Linn, Naim, DCS etc
- A huge level of vinyl systems, including top end LP12s, Voyds, Kronos, Michells etc
On a day to day level I use a Meridian source.

Trying to give a definitive "I know" based upon experience of a £200 DAC is hardly representative of having dem'd systems fronted by a £20k DCS or Kronos system. It's like your average punter trying to explain why a Ferrari might be better than a Lambo.
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vinyl is coloured by the very nature of it being vinyl.

it's not as durable as a CD or a digital file.

there is no point in you having a £20K vinyl set up when the vinyl itself is compromised. "Dust and grime easily accumulate in the grooves of vinyl records, and even a little dust or static electricity can heavily impact the sound quality of your analogaudio. To enjoy vinyl to the fullest, owners must keep their records as clean as possible."

essentially you need to keep good care of the vinyl which I imagine enthusiasts will but if you are buying old records which have been gathering dust in an attic for 30 year chances are they could have been damaged. how would you ever know what it should sound like or know if it has slight imperfections on the vinyl?

that is why it sounds more natural it is "coloured". tubes can also colour digital media so it gives the same effect.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
vinyl is coloured by the very nature of it being vinyl.

it's not as durable as a CD or a digital file.

there is no point in you having a £20K vinyl set up when the vinyl itself is compromised. "Dust and grime easily accumulate in the grooves of vinyl records, and even a little dust or static electricity can heavily impact the sound quality of your analogaudio. To enjoy vinyl to the fullest, owners must keep their records as clean as possible."

essentially you need to keep good care of the vinyl which I imagine enthusiasts will but if you are buying old records which have been gathering dust in an attic for 30 year chances are they could have been damaged. how would you ever know what it should sound like or know if it has slight imperfections on the vinyl?

that is why it sounds more natural it is "coloured". tubes can also colour digital media so it gives the same effect.
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Let me translate:
“I have no genuine experience of high end kit, I’m just relating whichever biased side of the debate that I fancy”.

What a complete waste of our time.

If you’re insistent of getting involved, at least put some effort in beyond regurgitating what is also someone’s opinion. All this talk of “theory” is great, but invariably it will have bias.

Go on, take you Z4 out for a drive to a decent dealer and have a listen such that you can at least prove it to yourself. It’s not that you even need to spend any cash as most good dealers will happily let you listen.
 
I'm showing my age here, but I first started listening to music in the early 70's and started off by recording via an external microphone onto a reel to reel tape player! I then progressed to an audio cassette player/recorder.

The first record player I had was part of a Phillips Music Centre purchased around 1976! I still have, and still play, the first LP's I bought!

I have stuck with vinyl ever since, mainly because I find it's a much more involving way to enjoy music - and after all these years I still get excited when I buy a new LP!

Of course I have CD's and MP3's etc, and these formats can sound excellent. But for me, I get much more enjoyment and satisfaction out of vinyl!
 
I'd read that new music production often has both compressed dynamic and frequency range to accomodate the listening environment (on the go / headphones / mobiles )
of the typical user (usually compressed aac/mp3, not flact, too)
- does new vinyl share the same fate and have the identical production as the cd/digital version ? or is this another reason to use vinyl.

with online streaming services, personally seem to have developed a low attention span, it is so easy to just browse the web and queue various suggestions, from music reviews/stevehoffmann and even OC -
the TIDAL interface is annoying, in this respect, as it does not give you a saveable history, so you may have forgotten some gem the next day.
I just listen to sd card music in the car ... if i had tidal that would be a distraction, unless the passenger was queueing them up.


.... Did DEL 707 get a carbon fibre decca brush to accompany his purchase ? (assuming he didn't want a moth)
 
jpaul said:
I'd read that new music production often has both compressed dynamic and frequency range to accomodate the listening environment (on the go / headphones / mobiles )
of the typical user (usually compressed aac/mp3, not flact, too)
- does new vinyl share the same fate and have the identical production as the cd/digital version ? or is this another reason to use vinyl.

with online streaming services, personally seem to have developed a low attention span, it is so easy to just browse the web and queue various suggestions, from music reviews/stevehoffmann and even OC -
the TIDAL interface is annoying, in this respect, as it does not give you a saveable history, so you may have forgotten some gem the next day.
I just listen to sd card music in the car ... if i had tidal that would be a distraction, unless the passenger was queueing them up.


.... Did DEL 707 get a carbon fibre decca brush to accompany his purchase ? (assuming he didn't want a moth)
Click to expand...


In my experience, vinyl often sounds better than CD/digital download, not because the format is technically superior but because studios seem to send a different master to Spotify than the one that goes to the cutting lathe. The version of the track that is burned to CD and streamed on Spotify et al is usually far more compressed (dynamic range compression that is, not compression in the MP3 sense) than the vinyl.

I recently tried a back to back comparison using Muse's Origin of Symmetry. I recorded my vinyl copy as a WAV, and compared it with the same album ripped from the CD. The vinyl has noticeably greater dynamic range.

Unfortunately the current trend in the music industry is to make albums that sound as loud as possible, which usually means compressing the living **** out of them at the mastering stage. This is the main reason I still buy vinyl - it's often the only way to avoid the heavy-handed compression. The irony is that CDs and other digital formats have a far greater theoretical maximum dynamic range than vinyl since the noise floor is so much lower, but in practice they sound the most compressed.
 
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