This Business and Moment...

[NickK]

I've been needing to dramatically re-wire my thinking. I've been so used to large corporations with governance, structure, standards, procedures etc... we're trying to create a far more agile organisation that delivers but is more agile but still compliant with the things we need. It's exciting but chaotic - so we've come to a middle ground were we'll have some light touch governance, but allow as much flexibility and freedom... it's a bit of a behavioural change for me, but I kinda like it.

Ahh the big org that does agile by simply calling waterfall yearly budgeting 'agile'..

It needs a mindshift. The tools of the org (finance control, regulatory etc) all need to work to support the agility. No point being agile with fixed yearly set of priorities that never shift. It's chaotic because there's more communications needed. That communications needs to be in a language and steps that everyone understands.

There are some fun ones - procurement and licensing is one, especially onboarding speed in low risk appetite organisations in the assumption that low risk is because they've sat in the process for a year and not because it's actually low risk. Also the licencing pricing vs agility vs the financial forecasting (ie if you agile away the cost goes up and thus the financial forecasting changes after it's agreed).

We had to have our own risk team that basically allowed us then to bulldoze the resistance to change. Once senior folks get used to fast deliver of smaller things and rapid priority changes, then it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle and the org is forced to change top down.

There IS a requirement for some old checkpoint style practices but the key is how does the org bring those forward (ie automated into devops etc). We started and we had a 'we are 100% rule breakers' the rest of the bank threw their toys out of the pram and a step by step approach was put into place - we'd then challenge any blockers with regard to agility of the organisation and how that area is supporting it.

With 10,000 digital staff in an org of 380,000 that was an interesting time

 

[LuckyBenski]

I've been needing to dramatically re-wire my thinking. I've been so used to large corporations with governance, structure, standards, procedures etc... we're trying to create a far more agile organisation that delivers but is more agile but still compliant with the things we need. It's exciting but chaotic - so we've come to a middle ground were we'll have some light touch governance, but allow as much flexibility and freedom... it's a bit of a behavioural change for me, but I kinda like it.

I'm feeling the opposite of this, being in a fairly junior role I am craving some structure and a framework I can fit into while I skill up. But we're just not big enough - there's no formal training procedure and most people are expected to know how to do their job already (which makes sense). But it means I get thrown around a bit by the changing of plans or priorities while I'm trying to grasp something solid and build my skills off it!

You could also just summarise it as "Too many ideas, not enough people, and saying yes to too much" from the top though

 

[Freefaller]

Ahh the big org that does agile by simply calling waterfall yearly budgeting 'agile'..

It needs a mindshift. The tools of the org (finance control, regulatory etc) all need to work to support the agility. No point being agile with fixed yearly set of priorities that never shift. It's chaotic because there's more communications needed. That communications needs to be in a language and steps that everyone understands.

There are some fun ones - procurement and licensing is one, especially onboarding speed in low risk appetite organisations in the assumption that low risk is because they've sat in the process for a year and not because it's actually low risk. Also the licencing pricing vs agility vs the financial forecasting (ie if you agile away the cost goes up and thus the financial forecasting changes after it's agreed).

We had to have our own risk team that basically allowed us then to bulldoze the resistance to change. Once senior folks get used to fast deliver of smaller things and rapid priority changes, then it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle and the org is forced to change top down.

There IS a requirement for some old checkpoint style practices but the key is how does the org bring those forward (ie automated into devops etc). We started and we had a 'we are 100% rule breakers' the rest of the bank threw their toys out of the pram and a step by step approach was put into place - we'd then challenge any blockers with regard to agility of the organisation and how that area is supporting it.

With 10,000 digital staff in an org of 380,000 that was an interesting time

We're not a big org (less than 250 people), but we've all been picked from large consultancies/companies so we're finding our feet in this SME world (although we're not really an SME). We 're all trying to not overcomplicate things and be a little more nimble with things. We have a fantastic opportunity to do some good work, pushing innovation culturally in a sector that struggles with change (civil engineering, infrastructure, rail etc...). Our CEO who is new as well (joined 2 weeks before me) is keen on allowing us to create the changes we need. One of my goals is to establish a capability where we can challenge industry standards and create value without the need for monstrous approvals process.

as you say, there has to be some governance to keep things in check but it has to be light tough to allow the flexibility. I love the tag line "we are 100% rule breakers"! I don't think we're quite that bold yet, but at the same time perhaps we should be. that accountability and delegated authority is critical to set out, so you're not always seeking permission - in fact I go by the "seek forgiveness" route pretty much across all my career and it doesn't seem to have done me any harm (yet!).

I'm feeling the opposite of this, being in a fairly junior role I am craving some structure and a framework I can fit into while I skill up. But we're just not big enough - there's no formal training procedure and most people are expected to know how to do their job already (which makes sense). But it means I get thrown around a bit by the changing of plans or priorities while I'm trying to grasp something solid and build my skills off it!

You could also just summarise it as "Too many ideas, not enough people, and saying yes to too much" from the top though

I can appreciate that, I think if I was early on in my career having a bit of structure is really helpful. That can be unsettling especially if you haven't found your "place" in the organisation. Good opportunity to create some value though if you're tenacious enough - but you do need clear and decisive leadership for that.

 

[LuckyBenski]

I can appreciate that, I think if I was early on in my career having a bit of structure is really helpful. That can be unsettling especially if you haven't found your "place" in the organisation. Good opportunity to create some value though if you're tenacious enough - but you do need clear and decisive leadership for that.

Yes that's more or less what I'm struggling with - if there was a clear structure and path I'd follow that out of nature. Alternatively I can see lots of areas that need some expertise and I could be more useful there than I am now, but haven't worked up the confidence to just do it and demonstrate my skills/the need.

As you mentioned, I'm inherently someone who asks permission because I assume someone knows what is best. But right now we're growing from very small with no serious software development aspect, to medium sized with several continuous development needs. So it's probably a good time for me to stick my neck out and do some useful work...

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Just been informed of pay rises at work and told to put the case forward for any of our team that we think deserves more than the value they've offered. I put forward someone who was formerly in my team (all mine are too new), and then myself. Hope I haven't put my foot in it, but I didn't want to assume that someone else would do it for me. Decent reasons though, I think, which I responded with:

• I have taken on a new product group
• In 2021, my existing product achieved record turnover. It was 120% on the previous year (2020), and 56% on our previous record year (2019)
• In 2021, one of our products was Passivhaus certified, and we are now engaging with various Scottish councils on Passivhaus schools
• Since 2020, my team has grown from 2 to 7 people, all of whom started in 2021/22, so I have taken on additional managerial responsibility for each of these Applications Engineers in both a product and personnel management sense
• Market rate for this sort of position is closer to 20% above my current salary

They're all solid reasons IMO. Nothing flimsy. There was also a big jump in knowledge that I had to make in the last year to deal with net zero, which then translates into valuable conversations with M&E consultants.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Freefaller]

Yes that's more or less what I'm struggling with - if there was a clear structure and path I'd follow that out of nature. Alternatively I can see lots of areas that need some expertise and I could be more useful there than I am now, but haven't worked up the confidence to just do it and demonstrate my skills/the need.

As you mentioned, I'm inherently someone who asks permission because I assume someone knows what is best. But right now we're growing from very small with no serious software development aspect, to medium sized with several continuous development needs. So it's probably a good time for me to stick my neck out and do some useful work...

Clearly I don't know the structure at your place of work, but I think if you've spotted something that you think you can have an impact on, and you know the pipeline of work that's coming in, be bold, and perhaps with an ally, put together a business case or a plan as to what you want to bring to the table with the changes that are occuring in the business - and then present it. Clearly that's not being autonomous and just doing it because you "know" it's the right thing to do... but if you have conviction in what you're doing and they see the value or potential value of your work and endorse it, as long as they agree the scope you can create that project governance for yourself. If you do, make sure you're open and collaborative about what you're doing, as the more people are aware, the more they are likely to contribute and support (albeit could be a little negative too). Change / innovation is a collective experience, it's better than going at it alone.

Just been informed of pay rises at work and told to put the case forward for any of our team that we think deserves more than the value they've offered. I put forward someone who was formerly in my team (all mine are too new), and then myself. Hope I haven't put my foot in it, but I didn't want to assume that someone else would do it for me. Decent reasons though, I think, which I responded with:

• I have taken on a new product group
• In 2021, my existing product achieved record turnover. It was 120% on the previous year (2020), and 56% on our previous record year (2019)
• In 2021, one of our products was Passivhaus certified, and we are now engaging with various Scottish councils on Passivhaus schools
• Since 2020, my team has grown from 2 to 7 people, all of whom started in 2021/22, so I have taken on additional managerial responsibility for each of these Applications Engineers in both a product and personnel management sense
• Market rate for this sort of position is closer to 20% above my current salary

They're all solid reasons IMO. Nothing flimsy. There was also a big jump in knowledge that I had to make in the last year to deal with net zero, which then translates into valuable conversations with M&E consultants.

Fingers crossed!

Fingers crossed indeed - I'm sure they'll see the value you bring. Certainly from our conversations it's clear you're passionate about it, but also very much are a subject matter expert.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Fingers crossed indeed - I'm sure they'll see the value you bring. Certainly from our conversations it's clear you're passionate about it, but also very much are a subject matter expert.

Thanks man. I’m definitely out of the crisis that I was in when we spoke earlier in the year. Now it’s too full on for me to be worried about anything! I have a week off this week fortunately. I’m very happy to have a week where I won’t be thinking about work.

How are you getting on? How are you finding the new job?

 

[NickK]

Yes that's more or less what I'm struggling with - if there was a clear structure and path I'd follow that out of nature. Alternatively I can see lots of areas that need some expertise and I could be more useful there than I am now, but haven't worked up the confidence to just do it and demonstrate my skills/the need.

As you mentioned, I'm inherently someone who asks permission because I assume someone knows what is best. But right now we're growing from very small with no serious software development aspect, to medium sized with several continuous development needs. So it's probably a good time for me to stick my neck out and do some useful work...

* Challenge
* Better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

The key here is accountability and holding yourself responsible - that you do enough due diligence to make a balanced decision and own the outcome (good/bad).
The issue with permission is it's all too easy for people to say No and bring out their book of excuses and senior exec fears.

 

[Katya10]

I don't know if this is allowed, or if I'll get shouted at, but I thought it would be nice to have a thread where you chatted about just general stuff relating to work, be it your own problems you're facing, or whatever... not worthy enough stuff for a thread to itself, but somewhere to get them out/ vent.

e.g.

I'm trying to balance cash flow at the moment, i.e. I have no flow apart from it going out. We are trying to hire a SVP for sales in the US, but with no money, the 3 of us founders will have to balance that somehow.
We have outstanding sales calls for interested parties, but sales cycles are slow!
UGH.
It's been an interesting day though; spoke to a company in Scandinavia who are potentially interested in licensing our product, which could be good if it's just for thte Scandinavian market, (and the money is right!) as it'd take us a while to reach there anyway.

All the while I'm contracting to keep food on the table/ money ploughed in to the business and trying not to get fired for moonlighting

*vent*

I am not sure if I should have my own thread or not or just write a reply to an existing topic - yet, my question is: what do you think about having to work or do low skill work for reasonable and decent remuneration until getting back or making a return to work as a high skilled worker with a fairly nice background in consulting and finance. Do you consider a potential new employer would be open and "showing understanding" in the given circumstances? Or the "little jobs" should be kept secret ?

I don't know if this is allowed, or if I'll get shouted at, but I thought it would be nice to have a thread where you chatted about just general stuff relating to work, be it your own problems you're facing, or whatever... not worthy enough stuff for a thread to itself, but somewhere to get them out/ vent.

e.g.

I'm trying to balance cash flow at the moment, i.e. I have no flow apart from it going out. We are trying to hire a SVP for sales in the US, but with no money, the 3 of us founders will have to balance that somehow.
We have outstanding sales calls for interested parties, but sales cycles are slow!
UGH.
It's been an interesting day though; spoke to a company in Scandinavia who are potentially interested in licensing our product, which could be good if it's just for the Scandinavian market, (and the money is right!) as it'd take us a while to reach there anyway.

All the while I'm contracting to keep food on the table/ money ploughed in to the business and trying not to get fired for moonlighting

*vent*

 

[randomshenans]

I am not sure if I should have my own thread or not or just write a reply to an existing topic - yet, my question is: what do you think about having to work or do low skill work for reasonable and decent remuneration until getting back or making a return to work as a high skilled worker with a fairly nice background in consulting and finance. Do you consider a potential new employer would be open and "showing understanding" in the given circumstances? Or the "little jobs" should be kept secret ?

So you've been out of work and Q is, should you put your lower skilled jobs on the CV or leave them out through fear of impact on your chances to get a new role?


I personally would either leave them out, or lump them as "various contractual roles" in that period. I think it's a fine line and perception for me would have been, why's he still doing these if he can operate above these? Does this mean they're not any good?

Whether rightly or wrongly, it's what it would say to me.

 

[HangTime]

It's a genuine issue, one I've wrestled with myself sometimes. Some hiring orgs are too quick IMO to judge an applicant purely based on a timeline of their job titles rather than skills, aptitude and experience they bring overall. I've discovered myself through interviews that there is often a lot more than meets the eye with some candidates. If I spent the summer emptying the bins that wouldn't suddenly make me worse at my core skills.

Just been informed of pay rises at work and told to put the case forward for any of our team that we think deserves more than the value they've offered. I put forward someone who was formerly in my team (all mine are too new), and then myself. Hope I haven't put my foot in it, but I didn't want to assume that someone else would do it for me. Decent reasons though, I think, which I responded with:

• I have taken on a new product group
• In 2021, my existing product achieved record turnover. It was 120% on the previous year (2020), and 56% on our previous record year (2019)
• In 2021, one of our products was Passivhaus certified, and we are now engaging with various Scottish councils on Passivhaus schools
• Since 2020, my team has grown from 2 to 7 people, all of whom started in 2021/22, so I have taken on additional managerial responsibility for each of these Applications Engineers in both a product and personnel management sense
• Market rate for this sort of position is closer to 20% above my current salary

They're all solid reasons IMO. Nothing flimsy. There was also a big jump in knowledge that I had to make in the last year to deal with net zero, which then translates into valuable conversations with M&E consultants.

Fingers crossed!

Good, this structured approach makes it easier for senior managers to pitch your case. I've seen threads in here before where people give very weak, entitled-sounded reasons for needing a pay rise "I've been here X years" "I work really hard" "I worked during the pandemic when people were on furlough" "everyone else is a slacker" "cost of living is going up" "the company made big profits" etc.

 

[NickK]

It's a genuine issue, one I've wrestled with myself sometimes. Some hiring orgs are too quick IMO to judge an applicant purely based on a timeline of their job titles rather than skills, aptitude and experience they bring overall. I've discovered myself through interviews that there is often a lot more than meets the eye with some candidates. If I spent the summer emptying the bins that wouldn't suddenly make me worse at my core skills.

Good, this structured approach makes it easier for senior managers to pitch your case. I've seen threads in here before where people give very weak, entitled-sounded reasons for needing a pay rise "I've been here X years" "I work really hard" "I worked during the pandemic when people were on furlough" "everyone else is a slacker" "cost of living is going up" "the company made big profits" etc.

Indeed, I've just tallied my applications - 80 senior applications. I've had about 2 hiring manager interviews and about 20 recruiter first interviews. Typically the recruiters look at the roles and say too senior or the company's too small or simply don't respond. Unfortunately taking 6 months to sort stuff out here at home, covering for the Mrs doing her tax exam revision and then 6 months later today.. and you're rejected before any real discussion.

In terms of pay increase - the market rate with a job offer is your strongest weapon and I suspect a lot of the ghosting at offer stage is caused by this. A company that will pay as low as they can will end up with a happy accountant year end but a failing business. That risk is taken by the board and is ultimately accountable for it.

 

[Felon]

This is so ******* dumb, they're trying to give me projects to do, when I have like 2 working days left with the company, wtf..

God I can't wait to be rid of this place.

 

[Throrik]

This is so ******* dumb, they're trying to give me projects to do, when I have like 2 working days left with the company, wtf..

God I can't wait to be rid of this place.

Did you decide which job you was going to? Might have been mentioned but can’t remember. AWS have tried with me recently, but quite enjoy where I am atm And heard too many (yours included) horror stories

 

[Felon]

Did you decide which job you was going to? Might have been mentioned but can’t remember. AWS have tried with me recently, but quite enjoy where I am atm And heard too many (yours included) horror stories

Yeah I have a new job starting on Thursday, so all is good.

To be honest, if you're like 20-25 years old, don't have much experience but can get into Amazon, it's worth it just to get the experience and obvious door opening opportunities later, however I just cba with the aggro lol I really can't - it's horrid.

The micro-management drives me ******* insane, i'm just flatly ignoring my manager now.

 

[Throrik]

Yeah I have a new job starting on Thursday, so all is good.

To be honest, if you're like 20-25 years old, don't have much experience but can get into Amazon, it's worth it just to get the experience and obvious door opening opportunities later, however I just cba with the aggro lol I really can't - it's horrid.

The micro-management drives me ******* insane, i'm just flatly ignoring my manager now.

Yeah I'm an old man now compared to that haha, couldn't handle micromanagement, moreover I couldn't handle the interview process of FAANGs - 2 interviews is my max I reckon, maybe 3 if I really like the role.

 

[ChrisD.]

Applying to join AWS in the VMC on AWS team is something I've been considering, I know a few of the guys there and they say it's vastly different to the rest of the company and especially the US based BUs.

 

[thewanted]

Applying to join AWS in the VMC on AWS team is something I've been considering, I know a few of the guys there and they say it's vastly different to the rest of the company and especially the US based BUs.

Is it an SA role? Hopefully they referred you as it does help.

This guy's videos helped me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/c/DanCroitor/videos

 

[ChrisD.]

Is it an SA role? Hopefully they referred you as it does help.

This guy's videos helped me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/c/DanCroitor/videos

Sr. Specialist Solutions Architect is the role title. My mate recently joined the regular AWS SA team and we've gone through the whole process and I have a list of things to look into should I decide to apply, so I'll add this too, thanks. I've also ran through all of the benefits and worked out I'd need a decent salary jump to match my current 'take home' when I factor in the reduced pension contributions and lack of car allowance etc. I'm just going to enjoy my time off between now and October and have a long think about what I want to do.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Had an interview for a large UK Gov dept today.

I felt it went well, had to do a 10 min presentation and approx 45 mins of questions.

As we finished I asked about next stages and was told they’d let me know next week. Left the house to get some essentials and they were on the phone offering me the role within the hour

Early days yet as I’ll need security clearance and background checks but it’s nice to get some good news and I had to tell someone.

I’ve been working flat out in the pharmaceutical industry and save for the odd few weeks over Christmas I’ve been at site every day since the pandemic started … so feeling a bit burned out and needed the change. This’ll be a 60/40 split (primarily WFH role with travel) and I can’t wait to embrace the work life balance.