Love this haha, walked right into that!It's time to be the star of the show, not just the wingman.
This Business and Moment...
- Thread starter randomshenans
- Start date
Soldato
Wouldn't it still be online, though?
That's the joke/point. My colleagues at my last fully remote employer used to say that a lot, which made no sense because we could only ever talk together online.
it’s funny, in this place each area thinks the world revolves around them and they define the strategic direction. It’s funning that none of them (including product!!) work work with the business side who actually talk to the end custimer. Proper 1980s and no idea of customer first.
Still having fun with recruitment - dunno what is going on there - wasn't that many years ago we'd have 100s of applicants per opening and able to pick and choose. Now very low number applying and 2/3rds don't even bother turning up for the interview often just completely ghosting us - on Saturday only one person actually turned up and they'd overstated their experience and qualifications significantly - the impression I got was their mum probably put them up to it though well meaning it hurt rather than helped their chances as they actually seemed to have some potential but that made things a bit difficult. One oddly called up to say they might be running late and laying on how enthusiastic they were about the job and then nothing, no show, don't answer their phone...
Something which is driving me up the wall is the complacent attitude to the personal safety devices (one button SOS for lone workers, etc.) loads of staff can't be bothered to plug them in to charge at the end of their shift - it doesn't take much vision to understand what could happen if someone needed to use one and the battery was flat and too many are lazy about using the correctly allocated one - again doesn't take much imagination as to what could happen in an emergency with it causing confusion and a delayed response. I dunno what is wrong with people these days this kind of complacency is on a steep rise. EDIT: What is driving me up the wall is you take them to task for it and they go along with it for like a week or so then as soon as they think you've forgotten about it stop doing it, despite they should know better.
Something which is driving me up the wall is the complacent attitude to the personal safety devices (one button SOS for lone workers, etc.) loads of staff can't be bothered to plug them in to charge at the end of their shift - it doesn't take much vision to understand what could happen if someone needed to use one and the battery was flat and too many are lazy about using the correctly allocated one - again doesn't take much imagination as to what could happen in an emergency with it causing confusion and a delayed response. I dunno what is wrong with people these days this kind of complacency is on a steep rise. EDIT: What is driving me up the wall is you take them to task for it and they go along with it for like a week or so then as soon as they think you've forgotten about it stop doing it, despite they should know better.
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What kind of position are you trying to fill?
Sounds like sign of the times, people are being laid off but unemployment is still low. Employees are becoming picky.
At my current place we are struggling to fill positions (i know why) for our Swiss, UK and Greek offices. More people are leaving than starting.
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From what I see in our place we value qualifications over experience. So we look for too high qualifications, pay too little. So even those who do apply and are successful often disappear as its very likely they'll get a better offer.
Lots of new hires leave quite fast, within 1 -2 yrs I assume because if difficult to move up internally and they get better offers externally.
I've given up applying for new roles internally. The process is too complicated takes too much time, and the qualifications bar is set too high. Getting to the point now where I won't get called for interview for my own job. They've been trying to fill one roles for about 3yrs. But yet I have to cover for more senior people, where the new person they hired doesn't have the experience or the skillset to do the role. I've just been moved to a team where the person with all the business knowledge just left. The next most experience person leaving within 6 months. They are losing people with decades of experience, and before they have done any skill transfer to anyone else. Its a common issue across the organisation.
I think we've barely maintained a 1:1 ratio of leavers to new hires. But that doesn't show the massive experience and skill set drain. I expect some business areas will just cease.
Lots of new hires leave quite fast, within 1 -2 yrs I assume because if difficult to move up internally and they get better offers externally.
I've given up applying for new roles internally. The process is too complicated takes too much time, and the qualifications bar is set too high. Getting to the point now where I won't get called for interview for my own job. They've been trying to fill one roles for about 3yrs. But yet I have to cover for more senior people, where the new person they hired doesn't have the experience or the skillset to do the role. I've just been moved to a team where the person with all the business knowledge just left. The next most experience person leaving within 6 months. They are losing people with decades of experience, and before they have done any skill transfer to anyone else. Its a common issue across the organisation.
I think we've barely maintained a 1:1 ratio of leavers to new hires. But that doesn't show the massive experience and skill set drain. I expect some business areas will just cease.
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He's written a bit about this in the past, even when they do manage to hire someone I think he said 50% of them don't last more than a couple of weeks before walking out. I've never heard of anywhere as bad as his workplace so I think they really need to drill into the root causes of this, if you have say 10-20% of people not turning up for interviews or walking out of the job early on then it might be a 'them problem'. If half the people are not showing up for interviews and half of those that do can't last a month before quitting, consider whether it's a 'us problem'.
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Never tried to move internally in any of my jobs. Its never easy and someone is always blocking your way.
I always end up leaving for a better paid job anyway.
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As long as the company is making profits, they will never get down to the root cause.
Certainly makes more sense. That's my plan going forward.
I don't think it is an us problem, it isn't an environment for people who aren't prepared to put in an honest days work though, but I don't think that is contributing to people not turning up to interviews.
One thing I don't like, though doesn't affect me personally, is how often people only get one day off at a time i.e. have say Wednesday and Friday as their days off when mostly there is no need for it to be that way. But I can't see that being behind new people leaving. It is definitely contributing to some of the longer term staff leaving and something which has been acknowledged by the company as a poor work/life balance yet still happening.
It is a range of positions - likewise since the pandemic we are seeing a lot of people leaving and/or wanting to reduce the number of days they work. One of the reasons we are recruiting is due to people wanting to go down to 3 or 4 days a week instead of retiring or retiring.
EDIT: Something which probably isn't helping - one of the agencies has supposed employee reviews below the ads, dated within the last 5 years, and they just don't match anyone who has worked or is working here, I suspect AI/ChatGPT jobbie, one specifically names a job role and I know the person who has been doing that the last 10 years and there is no way that is them. Which is probably misleading.
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This is interesting because what I've seen in the past in some orgs is kinda the opposite, where for internal hires qualifications are less important, because they have evidence of aptitude through observation rather than certification. Where people are brought in externally, qualifications might carry more weight because it's a proxy for not having seen them in action. I've never had a situation where I've not got an internal move due to lack of qualifications, I was once told I was overqualified however.
3 years sounds a long time to be hiring a role, after that length of time I'd be asking do we still need this role, does it need refactoring to reflect the changing nature of the org / industry / job market, what have ween be doing in the absence of this role for the past 3 years (is there a workaround that could be formalised instead of having this role) etc etc.
The pandemic made people realise why should they bust their backside, 40+ hours a week for very little in return. If its from their company, government or society in general.
With all talk about mental health and working long hours to barely make ends meet. People are choosing less hours if they don't want to retire. Spending more time actually doing what they want. I cant blame them with the government talking about raising the retirement age.
The pandemic was a crap situation but it made a lot of people wake to working to live, not live to work. Downside it also pushed just as many people to be lazy and not be so productive anymore.
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Obviously you know the reality and I don't, but something somewhere is going wrong. It's hard to believe that half of people aren't prepared to put in an honest days work, so if you are getting a lot of that, then it implies to me that your company/job/remuneration/working conditions [i.e. your interpretation of 'honest days work'] /recruitment process is attracting a disproportionately high number of these people. I'm not looking to be confrontational about this, more just encouraging some reflection on the approach to hiring. Something has to change - if you change nothing, then the problem will not go away, even if the blame lies solely with the job applicants that doesn't help you because it's just an endless queue of scumbags. I'm advocating looking at that queuing system and figuring out why so many scumbags keep joining it.
I get where you are coming from but I don't believe it is an us problem, most of the staff here are pretty chill, one of the reasons I've stayed on far longer than I intended, mostly expectations are pretty reasonable. It is possible there is some specific issue I don't have visibility of but I'm in a fairly unique position of having one leg in both sides of the management camp and usually have a good idea of what is going on.
It has only been like this since things started to get back towards more normal post the lockdowns and nothing has fundamentally changed at work since - before the pandemic the experience was closer to the polar opposite.
It doesn't explain what is happening before people even get to the interview and mostly affects older staff, quite a lot of new positions are less than full time hours.
So playing devil's advocate here, if "nothing has fundamentally changed at work" this implies you may not have adapted to the post-pandemic world. As malachi has indicated above, expectations and priorities amongst the workforce are changing.
I think you are viewing this from the perspective of the symptoms (since pandemic we struggle to recruit and retain staff) and you need to drill into that, keep [rhetorically] asking "Why?" until you understand where the misalignment is coming in. If you've changed nothing, then that implies that employee expectations are different than they used to be. So you need to bring your organisation more in line with that - what has grown in importance for the employee that you are failing to provide? Apply this to both retention and recruitment - the reason they are bailing pre-interview stage could for example be because you are too slow, they've applied for 5 roles and you aren't the quickest out of the 5 in progressing them or whatever. That's a problem in all industries.