This is getting ridiculous (energy prices - Strictly NO referrals!)

[200sols]

Do we install a mix of turbine sizes so that we can generate at low wind speeds as well as high ones?

I have no idea tbh, the blades pitch iirc.

Winderful - Wind energy is currently producing 7,450 MW.

That's enough to power 37,437,186 PS5s!

winderful.uk

You can see here how much wind was generating it goes back a year, quite eye opening how variable it is. But still, we could use cheap wind power and 'top up' with expensive gas rather than paying top price for everything..

 

[esmozz]

This has for decades been the main disadvantage to being reliant wind/solar that for some reason seems to get completely forgotten when it suits an argument. Without energy storage, renewable generation is basically half a solution to a problem.

I can only see one way out of the current mess and it's basically to throw everything at extracting maximum domestic gas as fast as possible to feed the existing generation infastructure. Everything else will either take too long or only be a half solution.

I imagine that electric cars will form part of the energy grid storage in not too distant future. I can't see energy companies able to invest that much in batteries but lets say 10 million cars, each providing a portion of their battery capacity (say 15Kwh) gives a storage capacity of 150 Gwh (unless I've messed up the decimal point)

 

[m4rmite]

I imagine that electric cars will form part of the energy grid storage in not too distant future. I can't see energy companies able to invest that much in batteries but lets say 10 million cars, each providing a portion of their battery capacity (say 15Kwh) gives a storage capacity of 150 Gwh (unless I've messed up the decimal point)

But the evs have to charge up in the first place.
Unless they are charged at night, cheaply, then feed back into the grid in the day at a higher price

 

[esmozz]

But the evs have to charge up in the first place.
Unless they are charged at night, cheaply, then feed back into the grid in the day at a higher price

I believe you can set them up to do just that, and daytime is when the peak demand is. But it would only be part of the solution anyway. Also, I suspect a lot more people will be investing in things like solar power and Teslas power wall (or similar) for their houses - that would also form part of the solution. I know I will be as soon as I can afford it.

 

[danlightbulb]

I believe you can set them up to do just that, and daytime is when the peak demand is. But it would only be part of the solution anyway. Also, I suspect a lot more people will be investing in things like solar power and Teslas power wall (or similar) for their houses - that would also form part of the solution. I know I will be as soon as I can afford it.

If this is to be properly successful we need a national programme and either large subsidies and/or export rates which match import rates.

From what I've heard here over the past weeks solar is a really successful technology now but £10k outlay will be out of reach for a lot of people. Let alone EVs.

 

[bigmike20vt]

But the evs have to charge up in the first place.
Unless they are charged at night, cheaply, then feed back into the grid in the day at a higher price

which is exactly what will happen, the grid will balance itsself using cars as a buffer

I imagine (and may be wrong) as default you will have a set plug in schedule where you tell the system it will be plugged in between 2 time points and you want to get your battery to a certain level. the system will then make itself available and the car will either charge or discharge depending on demand.
you will of course have the option to over ride it and just say "full it up asap"
octopus are already trialing it now with nissan leafs. I almost joined the scheme but chose to put my money into solar.system instead of leasing a leaf from octopus.

 

[m4rmite]

which is exactly what will happen, the grid will balance itsself using cars as a buffer

I imagine (and may be wrong) as default you will have a set plug in schedule where you tell the system it will be plugged in between 2 time points and you want to get your battery to a certain level. the system will then make itself available and the car will either charge or discharge depending on demand.
you will of course have the option to over ride it and just say "full it up asap"
octopus are already trialing it now with nissan leafs. I almost joined the scheme but chose to put my money into solar.system instead of leasing a leaf from octopus.

In an ideal world it would be great but.
I also read that too much solar/ e v load back into the grid isn't so stable as the frequencies cause a disturbance

 

[phill9800]

my roof is not in ideal position. so max I can generate is about 30kwh and at the moment around 26 (it's hotter than hell but days getting shorter).
my inverter is in the attic and it is a ballache getting up there. unfortunately the app on my phone can only get readings from the system I can't control it remotely socin summer I am not making the most off the battery at all. it really comes into its own from October through to march where I charge it with cheap over night energy.
as it is now I probably only get a 3 or so kWh per day off it I love it tho. (the whole system not just the battery)

if I could change 1 thing it would be being able to control it from my phone. I could really maximise the most of my own power then.

I think I miss out on the sun as well as by 5pm or so like now I'm missing out on more sun as the house isn't quite on the right angle to get all of the sun in for the day, I'd get more production if that was the case. I had a monitor for mine but the wiring I wasn't comfortable with and it never worked with the solar properly (Geo something or other 3 I think it was called?? I've tried blocking out the decision of buying it lol) but then had a little Growatt monitor that stopped working for some reason, but that would show current production, what you'd made for the day and all that jazz, could even log in and get a graph of everything done and it was very interesting and great to have, it was a shame when it stopped working.. I just collect the data from the production meter, although it does differ from the inverter funnily enough....
I'd love a battery system, but think I need a bigger array to make the most of it.. I'm sure as I'd not have enough to power an electric car by the end of the night but not having one, not bothered lol
What can you 'take' from the battery when your solar isn't working? Example, over night

 

[HungryHippos]

They can't just use cars as a buffer, it adds wear and tear, same for home TV batteries, people will need to agree to it, and be compensated for the usage somehow.

Being able to store and use excess generation reliably would be a big win though.

At the moment we do use some methods to do that, there is a big dam somewhere we fill when excess and drain when demand needed afaik.

 

[chrcoluk]

What is interesting is how much of this is self inflicted. I can remember this point being predicited 20 years ago. Under investment/bad planning/poor foresight all play a part as well as the way energy is bought and sold like any commodity. Any system fails at the edge case and capitialism is no different. I'm not saying we should now throw out our economic system but it certainly seems we need to change it regarding energy. I'm not going to pretend I understand how to effect those changes.

I will say this though. For years we've been held in hoc to a tiny minority of green zealots. It has always seemed sensible (and quite frankly, been obvious) that as we transition to a lower carbon economy, energy production via wind, solar and backed up by nuclear was the only practicable way to go in order to power a modern industrial economy. The fact we have'nt done this can be laid at the door of the tiny minority of aforementioned zealots as well as successive governments to scared to stand up to them. We need nuclear now - we should have been building it for the last 20 years.

Its also worth pointing out that there is potentially enough natural gas available via fracking in the U.K. to power the whole of Europe for the next 100 years. We'll never know for sure as we're not even allowed to do proper surveys to find out thanks to the green lobby. (Inital exploratory surveys indicate vast natural gas reservoirs)

The BBC did a documentary in the 2000s predicting future energy shortage, it got linked on here some months ago.

 

[LabR@t]

The BBC did a documentary in the 2000s predicting future energy shortage, it got linked on here some months ago.

Link?

 

[chrcoluk]

Link?

If The Lights Go Out BBC Documentary 2004 Part 1

All Rights and Ownership to BBC. This BBC documentary looks at the very real possibility of a terrorist attack in Russia on a gas plantation. This is thought...

www.youtube.com

This might be it, not 100% sure.

 

[LabR@t]

If The Lights Go Out BBC Documentary 2004 Part 1

All Rights and Ownership to BBC. This BBC documentary looks at the very real possibility of a terrorist attack in Russia on a gas plantation. This is thought...

www.youtube.com

This might be it, not 100% sure.

Cool thx can remember this actually, going to give it a watch

 

[Calabi]

The governments of the last 40 years have been stuck in dark ages & incompetent basically.

I still can't get over how an island has a hosepipe ban(yes I know you can't use sea water but desalination isn't a new age technology)

It's capitalism it's not sustainable long term. It's design is to run at minimal functionality and maximum profits. Hence things happen like we have a large increase in population since the 1980s, and no new water reservoirs built since then.

It seems pretty inevitable it's going to collapse, it's not able to function well with shocks to the system or even able to prepare for the future at all.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I think I miss out on the sun as well as by 5pm or so like now I'm missing out on more sun as the house isn't quite on the right angle to get all of the sun in for the day, I'd get more production if that was the case. I had a monitor for mine but the wiring I wasn't comfortable with and it never worked with the solar properly (Geo something or other 3 I think it was called?? I've tried blocking out the decision of buying it lol) but then had a little Growatt monitor that stopped working for some reason, but that would show current production, what you'd made for the day and all that jazz, could even log in and get a graph of everything done and it was very interesting and great to have, it was a shame when it stopped working.. I just collect the data from the production meter, although it does differ from the inverter funnily enough....
I'd love a battery system, but think I need a bigger array to make the most of it.. I'm sure as I'd not have enough to power an electric car by the end of the night but not having one, not bothered lol
What can you 'take' from the battery when your solar isn't working? Example, over night

so my battery is 7.2 kWh total however usable amount is 6kwh (the system shuts it off at 20%. I can over ride it but will then lose my 5 year bonus warranty. (it's 10 year warranty total but only half is from manufacturer).
right now I use maybe 2kwh of the battery.......my settings - which are better for winter really not summer but as I said it's a faff to change....

during the day I run off solar and any excess charges the battery. only then do I sell to the grid if solar doesn't cover all my use then the battery supplements it. I have not used any grid power on "peak" times since late April.
at 9:30 the house flips over to the grid where I get cheap energy .... now my battery charges - at moment it is only 1 or 2 kWh to top it off then the house runs off the grid til 1:25am. (at 1:30 my cheap energy ends) . at that point it's back over to battery. I am in bed by then so our house base load is on average not more than 200wh. by 5:30 the sun is rising again and I am back on solar and by 7am the battery is topped off again. like I said I could work this more more efficiently ifni had access to my settings...... at most the battery will have used 2kwh then rinse and repeat .

in winter it's much more interesting as my home office needs electric heating. instead of using a. heater however I bitcoin mine 24/7 which means I don't need a heater. this winter however I may not but that is another thread.

but I make full use of the battery then. unfortunately I do still need the grid.on peak as well but even so it takes off a massive chunk.. over the year way less than 10% of my energy used is peak price from the grid

edit the battery can only output max of iirc 3.5kw.so if no solar I do still sip some from the grid from time to time (cooking tea perhaps at night) but according to my app it's negligible and does not really count for anything.

I got back from my hols yesterday and the washer and tumble drier (heat pump so is efficient but slow) has been on literally all day (still going now with 20 mins to go) on load number 4 I think in the drier and load 6 in the washer. and the wife is cooking a curry for 10 meals as well as tea for the little one. battery is still at 80% however and nothing from the grid.

(sorry for wall of text.tldr however it's a no brainer if you can afford it and not planning on moving for a while)

 

[danlightbulb]

@bigmike20vt that sounds great. Even in winter you can run down your battery first before switching on the gas heating.

What's your roof like?

 

[Jokester]

It's capitalism it's not sustainable long term. It's design is to run at minimal functionality and maximum profits. Hence things happen like we have a large increase in population since the 1980s, and no new water reservoirs built since then.

It seems pretty inevitable it's going to collapse, it's not able to function well with shocks to the system or even able to prepare for the future at all.

The government control the building of new power stations, it's a failure of energy security policy for decades that has led us to this.

 

[bigmike20vt]

@bigmike20vt that sounds great. Even in winter you can run down your battery first before switching on the gas heating.

What's your roof like?

I had it redone before installing. it is a 1961 east/west house with "Marley" tile. before retiring my dad was a roofer and he said he would not have trusted it for another 25+ years so I just had it done. I am 46.... it should see me out now . . I also had the chimney taken off in case it caused shadow (the breast went inside 5 years ago anyway)

PS more on topic.

I was reading on another forum , an EV forum they seem clued in, and a few there are saying that IF the.government does not step in and a lot of customers default only the big 6 are likely to survive it, and even Octopus may go belly up. I bloody well hope they don't.

 

[the shadow]

I had it redone before installing. it is a 1961 east/west house with "Marley" tile. before retiring my dad was a roofer and he said he would not have trusted it for another 25+ years so I just had it done. I am 46.... it should see me out now . . I also had the chimney taken off in case it caused shadow (the breast went inside 5 years ago anyway)

PS more on topic.

I was reading on another forum , an EV forum they seem clued in, and a few there are saying that IF the.government does not step in and a lot of customers default only the big 6 are likely to survive it, and even Octopus may go belly up. I bloody well hope they don't.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-4pm-Friday-thats-staff-crack-open-booze.html

 

[HungryHippos]

People get outraged over the weirdest things, as if cooling off a little early on a Friday is going to ultimately matter...