Poll: Thoughts on internet piracy?

[Nitefly]

Theft is a legal construct, whether it was intended to deal with data or not is irrelevant, especially since it doesn't apply to ideas either, which are a form of data. Obviously there needs to be more context around the talk about ideas, but in general there are other legal constructs that deal with the taking and using of ideas that you haven't come up with yourself in regards to commercialising them. To actually take and use an idea for yourself for personal entertainment (as is typically the case with copyright infringement) isn't something that is dealt with with regards to the law.

So if you want to discuss criminality, legality and so on, you really can't be saying things that suggest that piracy isn't "technically" theft, because it simply isn't theft.

Now, distribution of content you don't have the legal right to distribute is illegal AND a criminal matter depending on the circumstances (which is usually related to the scale of the unlawful re-distribution) .



Morals don't really come in to such a commercial process as this. As you can also argue that large media companies create content with the intent of having people desire it, and that the sole purpose of what they're doing is to get people interested in what they are putting out.

That isn't to suggest that the fact that they create a desirable product means people can and should consume it in any way they wish, it does however pull control away from the content producers in such a way that it becomes "the people's". As without the people to desire their content, they'd be nowhere anyway. It is however a very complex argument and situation that you can't sum up in such a basic manner in which you have.

I've read this about five times and I'm still not entirely sure what you're getting at

Theft is a legal construct, whether it was intended to deal with data or not is irrelevant, especially since it doesn't apply to ideas either, which are a form of data. Obviously there needs to be more context around the talk about ideas, but in general there are other legal constructs that deal with the taking and using of ideas that you haven't come up with yourself in regards to commercialising them. To actually take and use an idea for yourself for personal entertainment (as is typically the case with copyright infringement) isn't something that is dealt with with regards to the law.

So if you want to discuss criminality, legality and so on, you really can't be saying things that suggest that piracy isn't "technically" theft, because it simply isn't theft.

Now, distribution of content you don't have the legal right to distribute is illegal AND a criminal matter depending on the circumstances (which is usually related to the scale of the unlawful re-distribution) .

I don't understand why you've jumped on my use of the word data or the point you are trying to make? I also don't know why you then proceed to start using the word 'ideas'. Do you mean 'works'? There are no property rights over mere ideas. The bottom two paragraphs seem to more or less restate points made in the first paragraph of my post.

Morals don't really come in to such a commercial process as this. As you can also argue that large media companies create content with the intent of having people desire it, and that the sole purpose of what they're doing is to get people interested in what they are putting out.

I don't really see how that can be used to counter the suggesting the infringing property rights is a dubious practice.

That isn't to suggest that the fact that they create a desirable product means people can and should consume it in any way they wish, it does however pull control away from the content producers in such a way that it becomes "the people's". As without the people to desire their content, they'd be nowhere anyway. It is however a very complex argument and situation that you can't sum up in such a basic manner in which you have.

Sorry dude, I really just don't get what you're trying to say

 

[pinkowl]

I wanted to say no but ended up saying it depends. Where I think it is quite cheap to enjoy some things like music, tv shows etc now I find it difficult to find tv shows from other countries to watch. I dont download anything though as I can live without those shows but I wouldnt judge someone who did as it would be impossible to find them any other way...

 

[mattyfez]

I often download torrents of stuff that's available openly on BBC Iplayer and the likes, is that considered piracy? Sorry, copyright infringement.

 

[gothic_hobbit]

Captain Jack Sparrow approves of this thread

 

[Xordium]

Captain Jack Sparrow approves of this thread

If only you knew how ironic that was.

 

[Narj]

It's extremely frustrating how long studios take to release stuff to BluRay/DVD (eg: GoT) - not surprising so much of it gets pirated in all honesty!

 

[Mason-]

A Youtube video of a game isn't a demo...

Yes it is?

Last time I checked demo is short for demonstration which is exactly what a youtube video is.

 

[Rroff]

I often download torrents of stuff that's available openly on BBC Iplayer and the likes, is that considered piracy? Sorry, copyright infringement.

Often technically its dodgy ground as they won't have given the source you got it from distribution rights, you might be circumventing other licensing restrictions, etc. etc.

It's extremely frustrating how long studios take to release stuff to BluRay/DVD (eg: GoT) - not surprising so much of it gets pirated in all honesty!

One thing I've noticed a few times recently - somewhere (legally) will start releasing episodes of a TV show then after a few episodes pull it all with a message about how the copyright holder is no longer permitting them to distribute it, etc. which is just a really dick move regardless especially when your half way into a series and they are the only legal source for it in the UK... and a couple of studios are pulling some stunt where they are using the release date as a stealth "pre-order" and then pulling it if there aren't enough sales in the first few days (it just redirects you to the trailer after purchasing) - which just ends up with most people getting a refund I'm guessing anyhow so backfires.

 

[FoxEye]

It depends. When stuff is available for sale legally, I either pay up or boycott it (on grounds of excessive price - ie movie rentals).

When stuff is not available for sale, at all, then what choice do you have? There's plenty of stuff that was only ever released in one country, for example. Or stuff that is no longer for sale anywhere. Sure, someone still owns it, but if they aren't selling it any more, I figure it's OK.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Nothing wrong with it.

Swiss commissioned an impartial study... which found it did not negatively impact sales, in fact it increased them.

The claims of the industry and through misguided greed, not fact.

I buy what's worth buying... so much crap released lately, the crap doesn't get my money.

 

[FoxEye]

I buy what's worth buying... so much crap released lately, the crap doesn't get my money.

Here I'm conflicted.

There are no refunds if you genuinely hate a movie. Of course not, because they still delivered the movie to you, and it's not their fault you don't like it

On the one hand, you normally have some idea if you'll enjoy it or not. For movies you think will be crap, there are a few possibilities.

1. You think it's going to be crap, so you wait for it to be released on TV. You're in no hurry to see a crap movie, and it'll be a nice surprise if it's half decent. *If you don't have live TV, you go to (2).

2. You think it will be crap, torrent it, and it turns out to be barely watchable. You certainly wouldn't pay for it. But you still watched it. It passed some time But you definitely don't want to encourage any sequels, so you don't pay for it

3. You think it will be crap, torrent it, and enjoy it. The chances of you paying for it afterwards depend on your honesty. Ah, let's face it, you don't pay for it

OK, those examples are me projecting myself on everybody else. But the point is, it's impossible to know for certain if a movie will be any good. That in itself is also not 100% justification for piracy. And then there is the case of the movie you pirate and enjoy, and subsequently don't pay anyone for We've all done it...

 

[TheVoice]

FoxEye, I guess the in-between option there is renting it (via Sky, Blinkbox etc) but even then I don't find the prices particularly compelling. I'd rent a new release HD movie for £2-3 but it's about £4.50 and if you do decide you like it after that, you've 'wasted' that £4.50 if you decide to then buy it outright afterwards.

 

[FoxEye]

FoxEye, I guess the in-between option there is renting it (via Sky, Blinkbox etc) but even then I don't find the prices particularly compelling. I'd rent a new release HD movie for £2-3 but it's about £4.50 and if you do decide you like it after that, you've 'wasted' that £4.50 if you decide to then buy it outright afterwards.

I don't use any rental service unless they send me a discount code. HD should be £3, SD £2 at most. £4.50 is an absolute joke.

Atm, I hardly watch any films that aren't on TV. The occasional trip to the cinema is it, once or twice a year.

I don't bother with torrents, I just watch whatever's on Film4, etc. Won't pay for Sky Movies either.

 

[Kenai]

Yes it is?

Last time I checked demo is short for demonstration which is exactly what a youtube video is.

Don't be obtuse, it's clearly not a demo in the sense of what a demo has meant for games and software for decades, i.e. a short limited playable version of the game to test prior to purchase. Watching a video is in absolutely no way comparable, even if it fits a dictionary definition that no one uses in common discussion of the topic.

 

[bledd]

The best way to combat it is to have one awesome video service.

Not 50 different video services.

We need Lovefilm and Netflix to merge, then conquer.

 

[Groowie]

The best way to combat it is to have a cheap and affordable system.

 

[murah]

I bought some games a while back and lost the discs, so I downloaded them again.. is that stealing ?

and some games don't have demo's and outright lie or create a highly false image back in my younger days I would have downloaded them to try it out and if I liked it I would have bought it, now days I use youtube reviews.

TV shows .. occasionally download if I can find a free stream but enough excuses

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I stream everything for free or download it, I can't remember the last time I went into a store to buy a dvd or an album.

Even if I was a multi millionaire I would still stream it as it's just more convenient than having to go search through dvd's to find it then but the disc back in the case and put it back where I found It.

I can just Google what i want to watch online and not have to worry about a thing. Netflix still doesnt have the best content on it compared to just streaming something online for free. That in itself is just stupid having to pay for a service when I can get better service and it costs me nothing.

I have an app on my phone and it has almost everything on it. It's free and is better than Netflix imo.

So when digital media wakes up and can give me the best content for a fair price then just maybe I might consider paying for stuff.

If there was something I could subscribe to for a fair price and it had everything on it I wouldn't have a problem paying for it.

 

[Mark A]

Musicians and actors get paid obscene amounts of money and take great pleasure in showing it off at every opportunity. Hardly surprising the 99% don't feel guilty about pirating their material. It also doesnt help that they churn out utter garbage these days. Sequel after remake after sequel.

Makes 0 difference if you pirate a TV show. All they care about is the Nielson figures, the predicted audience figures wouldnt change a bit if ssomeone in the US pirated it instead of watching it on TV, never mind someone outside the US. Plus they have product placement in every TV show these days anyway.

basically.