Today, DSC failed me!

[TW]Fox;25618449 said:
And you find yourself complacently relying on driver aids when you do, do you?

That sounds like poor practice rather than the presence of the aids.

I maintain my view that PMKeates was spot on. Your logic was flawed, there is no reason to be 'glad' your car doesnt have driver aids from a safety perspective.
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Have already expanded upon this, except you seem to have glossed over that.

The simple point was, and still remains - Driver Aids have the potential to instil unwarranted confidence, however, remain useful tools nonetheless. Just tools though, their presence should not modify driving behaviour, but can.

Admittedly (again) "I'm glad I don't have driver aids" was a particularly short and non-expansive comment to make which seems to have given the wrong impression. As before, it's not stating "Driver Aids are lame, are worthless and I'm glad I don't have them". Every vehicle I drive with them has them kept on.

It was more getting at the point above, that they should not modify driving behaviour, and the sheer lack of presence of them means you absolutely cannot modify behaviour because they simply are not installed.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
Ladies and gentlemen of the OcUK jury.

What Mr Gill has told you today is what he wants you to believe. The fact of the matter is that he, in a moment if madness, tried to re-enact the opening credits of a 1980s TV show which went wrong. Whilst it is to be thankful for that he is ok, the jury should not be blindsided with the explanation given.

Consider the following video.


He tried to do a Thomas Magnum drive off and it went wrong.
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Huge lols, I'm still giggling now :D :D
 
My car doesn't have aids but I certainly would like them for driving in adverse conditions. The human brain simply cannot react quick enough. I'm no race driver either, but then again, even the best drivers crash from time to time.
 
[TW]Fox;25618449 said:
And you find yourself complacently relying on driver aids when you do, do you?

That sounds like poor practice rather than the presence of the aids.

I maintain my view that PMKeates was spot on. Your logic was flawed, there is no reason to be 'glad' your car doesnt have driver aids from a safety perspective.
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Exactly hes flawed.
If you never drive to need the driver aids then great, If you do happen to stray over the edge then they help you out.

For the first time since getting my current car, a week or so before xmas I engaged driver aids. I was being lazy and hadnt dropped from 6th for a 40 as I got towards the end of a straight there is a very sharp 90 degree right turn, its ok to take in almost any conditions at 40, bar ice or massive rain.
It just happened that there was a small patch of ice just in front of the corner and as I lifted off the accelerator it made no diff to speed as car will sit on minimum revs at 40mph, the car corrected the attempt to go straight on even though the wheel was pointing to go right, purely due to active aid (DSC I think) activating . It was very seemless and rather than a very last second panic I would have had I just proceeded round the corner and changed down to a more sensible gear with a note to self to use a more sensible gear as I roll down that 40 limit in future.

His point has some sense to it, just not very well described.
Powerful RWD cars benefit a lot from driver aids such as DSC, traction control etc
Most people have no comprehension how much is actually going on in a wide wheeled, floored in 2nd gear, 135i (for example) on a poor surfaced B road as it just seems so fine in the dry.
Take that same car, turn off driver aids, place it in the wet and see how fast they can drive then.
Driver aids do definitely bring up the expectations of what is sensible driving past a logical point for many people. Take them away for whatever reason and they will rapidly be brought back down to size on the driving skill.
There are plenty of people about who have never driven a RWD without driving aids, they don't get the whole RWD mentality and as such are bitten twice as hard when the perils of RWD bite.

Personally I had a massive wakeup call when I found the limits of my impreza AWD system on a sheet of ice. It really really wakes you up to just how capable some cars are of finding grip and going where you point them when suddenly they don't manage to comply with your wishes.
 
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Not withstanding the details of the OP and it being a main carriageway on a busy day but is it just me then that "plays" in puddles and poor conditions when the opportunity arises?
Obviously one doesn't hoon to a level you endanger anyone else but I do try to find the limits of most cars I drive in most, if not all conditions.
It is the best form of learning if you ask me. You get much better at knowing how close you are to the edge of the envelope when the weather does it's thing.
This can be simply accelerating through puddles, winding way too much lock on and planting the throttle to induce a "reaction" to lobbing the handbrake up mid corner in the snow and seeing if you can catch it before you put it dirty side up in a ditch. :D
 
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lucky escape. glad you are ok though, cars can be replaced, poeple cant. yet :P

never had anything close to that happen to me yet. i tend to mess about a little in my ford cosworth but manage to keep in mainly under control and plus if i damage anything its hard to replace or ****ing expensive

take care guys and gals. you only get one life
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Personally I had a massive wakeup call when I found the limits of my impreza AWD system on a sheet of ice. It really really wakes you up to just how capable some cars are of finding grip and going where you point them when suddenly they don't manage to comply with your wishes.
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I have owned performance vehicles with no driver aids before - Caterham, Lotus Exige S and Lotus Europa S and you drive for the conditions definitely. Never had a single incident in any of them.

But like I said earlier in the thread, as soon as you get insulated from the environment (noise/temp/wind/electronics etc) you take the speed, control and grip for granted. Thankfully DSC saves the day (twice) for me.

- Once was accelerating in a 335i over a dual carriageway white lane line (temp was about 3-4'C) and must have hit wet line with 2 wheels causing the vehicle to want to spin. DSC saved my bacon then.

- Recently, my 330D xDrive was tackling a small roundabout (damp and around 4-5'C) and on the corner, hit the accelerator a bit too much and the car basically drifted. DSC and some steering action (probably pointless as the electronics did the work) once again stepped in and stopped the slide.
 
[TW]Fox;25618924 said:
Your previous posts in this thread make me wonder... :p
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My own lane floods quite badly so I've had a fair bit of "feedback" at varying speeds. :D
I've never had an instance of aquaplaning that's spun me off into the verge though.
If you don't panic brake or change speed/direction at the most crucial moment then you tend to go in one direction and that is the way you were headed anyway.

Come to think of it, in my 306 D-turbo many moons ago there was a massive sleet / hail storm in Exeter as I was passing Junct 30.

two cars in front of me start breaking quite heavily because of the sudden white-out, I just eased off the throttle slightly and kept the steering dead straight. Yep we all became passengers but the two in front pirouetted off into the armco and I just sailed by, wondering how they managed that on a straight bit of road!
 
I thought when driving a BMW the aim was to get the DSC light flashing as much as possible?

Seriously though, glad you are ok Will.
 
What's worse than that is when you turn it off to act like a complete hooligan somewhere quiet.....wonder why you can't seem to act like a hooligan....then find out it wasn't fully off....
 
must have been driving at fairly high speed or something...considering the only car that had issues staying on the road was yours. :o

Got lucky imo considering there is little damage to your car and none to yourself. :)
 
Must *have*

And he said he was within the speed limit. What he does admit is that he was going too fast for the deluge of rain that had dumped itself on the road which caught him out.
 
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