Today's mass shooting in the US

Well the bill presumes the security of the country requires a militia (civilians with guns) so to have that, the civilians must be allowed to have guns. Presumably ones which constitute a credible threat.

A good review of the value of a militia to national security in the 21st century should sort this out easily then.

There's 300 years of data, what is the role of armed civilians in the nations security today and has anything changed in that time which displaces the role of an armed militia in national security.
 
Carrying a gun isn't a threat of violence lol
Some of the "open carry" people do very much intend it to be threatening and seem to take a great deal of pleasure in making others feel uncomfortable or alarmed.

I don't have much of an issue with people having a gun, BUT I've pretty much always said it should be dealt with like many other things where your ownership/use of it can potentially kill others.

IE:
You have to show you're proficient and safe in the use of it.
You have to register the weapon and any significant changes (serial number, and a ballistic sample that is updated if you change the barrel at all) to it or a change of ownership or you change address.
You have to show you are physically capable of handling the weapon safely - eyesight test if it's ever going to be used anywhere but on a range for example.

It is absolutely insane that the US treats the ability to get a drivers licence more seriously than most guns, and that they'll ban someone from flying because "they're a risk to others" but will allow them to go out and buy all the guns and ammunition they can afford.

One of the sad side effects of the gun laws and medical system in the US, is that even if you survive being shot at random by someone most countries wouldn't allow to use an air rifle, you're likely to be going bankrupt paying for your treatment and get little or no assistance in those costs (or any ongoing medical costs related to your injuries).
I suspect if the gun industry in the US was forced to start paying for the medical costs of even just those hurt in mass shootings, they'd be pushing for more background checks rather than fighting them.
 
Some of the "open carry" people do very much intend it to be threatening and seem to take a great deal of pleasure in making others feel uncomfortable or alarmed.

Someone feeling threatened or alarmed because they see a gun doesn't mean the owner is being threatening. I might even take pleasure out of people being scared of me carrying a gun because I think they're a bunch of wimps, but me lawfully carrying a gun isn't a threat of violence unless I point it at someone or make a verbal threat to shoot someone.
 
Someone feeling threatened or alarmed because they see a gun doesn't mean the owner is being threatening. I might even take pleasure out of people being scared of me carrying a gun because I think they're a bunch of wimps, but me lawfully carrying a gun isn't a threat of violence unless I point it at someone or make a verbal threat to shoot someone.

What a pleasant person you are, it explains a lot about your stance on a lot of things when you would actively go out your way to upset and scare people just to laugh at them for not being as 'Alpha' as you are.
 
Someone feeling threatened or alarmed because they see a gun doesn't mean the owner is being threatening. I might even take pleasure out of people being scared of me carrying a gun because I think they're a bunch of wimps, but me lawfully carrying a gun isn't a threat of violence unless I point it at someone or make a verbal threat to shoot someone.

Huh, isn't that the same power tripping that assorted males justify knife carry with in this country.
 
Unless there is a real chance of finding a bear in your driveway, there's no need to carry a gun. Especially when out shopping in Walmart.

Huh, isn't that the same power tripping that assorted males justify knife carry with in this country.

I do wonder what planet some people are on. It takes something awful happening to them or someone close to them to discover a bit of empathy and common sense.
 
What a pleasant person you are, it explains a lot about your stance on a lot of things when you would actively go out your way to upset and scare people just to laugh at them for not being as 'Alpha' as you are.

I was being hypothetical, I quite obviously don't carry a gun seeing as I live in the UK. My point was that someone being mildly amused that someone is alarmed by them carrying a gun doesn't mean they're being deliberately threatening.

Huh, isn't that the same power tripping that assorted males justify knife carry with in this country.

I think the majority of people carrying knives in this country probably do it because they feel there's a real chance of them being stabbed and they'd rather not feel defenceless while walking about. I'm sure some people do it to feel like big men, but all of them are breaking the law, unlike in places in the US where it's legal to carry a gun.
 
I was being hypothetical, I quite obviously don't carry a gun seeing as I live in the UK. My point was that someone being mildly amused that someone is alarmed by them carrying a gun doesn't mean they're being deliberately threatening.

Don't backtrack, that's not what you wrote and doesn't convey the same sneering tone that people might be concerned about someone having a gun in a place there is no need for it, except unless you're going to shoot the place up or you want to make people uncomfortable about someone having a gun when the only use for it is to shoot people.

I'd suggest that more than anything it confirms my thoughts about your (emotional) intelligence that you wouldn't be concerned.
 
Don't backtrack, that's not what you wrote and doesn't convey the same sneering tone that people might be concerned about someone having a gun in a place there is no need for it, except unless you're going to shoot the place up or you want to make people uncomfortable about someone having a gun when the only use for it is to shoot people.

I'd suggest that more than anything it confirms my thoughts about your (emotional) intelligence that you wouldn't be concerned.

I don't have a tone, we're writing in text conversations, any tone you're inferring is simply one you've made up in your hysterically confused mind. I'm not sure how me clarifying the obvious that my location of Leeds would mean I can't carry a gun, and me carrying one while being amused at the reaction of my fellow citizens would probably have assured my demise long before I returned to post here. Having a high emotional intelligence doesn't mean someone would necessarily pander to the emotional whims of someone else, a sociopath might use that high EQ to emotionally abuse someone for example. Do you have anything relevant to add to the debate or are you going to keep misinterpretating my posts forcing me to condescendingly explain them to you?
 
My point was that someone being mildly amused that someone is alarmed by them carrying a gun doesn't mean they're being deliberately threatening.
Mental. If I encountered someone openly carrying a weapon I'd assume they were carrying it because they were going to use it. Otherwise why in the ****ing hell are you carrying it!!? :confused:

For open-carry it's one of two scenarios (and this actually goes for carrying knives too);
(1) You're carrying because you might use it
(2) You're carrying because you want people to see it. In other words, intimidate them.
 
Mental. If I encountered someone openly carrying a weapon I'd assume they were carrying it because they were going to use it. Otherwise why in the ****ing hell are you carrying it!!? :confused:

For open-carry it's one of two scenarios (and this actually goes for carrying knives too);
(1) You're carrying because you might use it
(2) You're carrying because you want people to see it. In other words, intimidate them.

What type of gun are you envisaging? If I'm walking around in Texas with a pistol holstered are you going to assume I'm going to shoot someone? Or do you think everyone open carrying is wearing kevlar and carrying an AR 15?
 
Someone feeling threatened or alarmed because they see a gun doesn't mean the owner is being threatening. I might even take pleasure out of people being scared of me carrying a gun because I think they're a bunch of wimps, but me lawfully carrying a gun isn't a threat of violence unless I point it at someone or make a verbal threat to shoot someone.


Ok.

Lets put it simply.

How do YOU tell the person who is about to take that gun off their back and start shooting everyone from the person who is enjoying making other people uncomfortable, or the person that is so **** scared of "the bad people" that they need the reassurance of openly carrying a weapon that is pretty much useless at quickly protecting themselves, or in an enclosed area?
"Long arms" are pretty much pointless in most self protection situations as they take too much time to pull out, and aim, and are hard to use in enclosed areas (which is the reason the military tends to use shorter versions of the weapons, or hand guns for things like house clearance and base or ship protection), yet large obvious guns are the go to for the idiots that feel they must demonstrate how much of an "alpha" they are by showing off their toy.

If you're "sensible" as a gun owner, and open/concealed carry you're going to be constantly nervous, on edge and evaluating the threats whenever you see anyone else with a gun, or anything that might hide one - because they're a potential high risk, if you're not then you're going to get caught by surprise...
The non carrying people who might be nervous are likely to be so because they have no idea of the people who are carrying weapons intent, state of mind (are they going to see a "threat" that isn't there and react), or simple competence (are they going accidentally shoot me because they've got poor trigger discipline and can't remember to clear their weapon or keep their finger clear of the trigger...).

The argument that having a gun makes you able to protect yourself has always been a bit of a nonsense in many of the situations where it's claimed it will "save yor", for example having a gun on you doesn't help if someone pulls theirs first or you've got your hands full, or you have to spend several second fumbling to get your gun from being "safe" to usable, having a huge honking gun on your back doesn't make you safer against someone who doesn't care if they die, it just means you're probably going to be the first person they shoot after they've killed the trained security guard/police officer next to you (and if they don't, when the police/swat teams arrive you're going to treated as a priority suspect and likely shot by them*)
Even Police and trained military personal have been killed despite being "on duty" armed and supposedly ready, because the shooter is someone they didn't spot, didn't assess as a threat, or was simply faster for whater reason (better training, better familiarity with the gun, no hesitation in pulling the trigger, or had a smaller gun that was simply easier to aim quickly).

The US is raising a whole generation (well two, probably coming up to three now) of people who are effectively low level PTSD from the school shooting drills, because they've had to spend large portions of their time in an environment that has taught them to be wary of loud noises and consider if they're going to have to sacrifice themselves or their friends when the shooting starts.


*Some of the popular holsters used by self proclaimed "alpha" "muh gun rites" idiots have a bad tendency to catch on the trigger of their guns, and some of the more popular handguns are designed in such a way that they don't have a separate safety so when the gun is pulled, or even just jostled the holster can be enough to
 
I can feel threatened if i want to in the presence of some potential maniac seconds away from potentially firing off dozens of rounds in the context that a similar event occurred days ago... If racism is in the eye of the beholder, violence should be as well.

It's all well and fine saying people shouldn't be scared because it's a very small statistic, but statistics don't matter when you're reminded of it every day, any school that took zero preparation for example, i'd look at in contempt. The fact that a school should be taking precautions and reminding students every day that one of them could be a shooter in the future (not literally, but implied)... that's constantly supplying fear, and i'd be rather suspicious of people showing signs and treating them in a manner that probably increases the chances they flip into mass murderer mode.

You can't just tell them it's "fine" and they shouldn't worry, when they should and it isn't.

If an ex-military man has to start pointing his gun in Missouri at some entitled piece of **** walking into a Walmart with body armor, an AR and tons of ammo, then the game is up, the threat is established and that person has ruined a lot of people's day, cost a store expense just so he can wave his little manhood around. I'm gonna keep updated on that story, because it's definitely a canary in a coal mine.
 
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I don't have a tone, we're writing in text conversations, any tone you're inferring is simply one you've made up in your hysterically confused mind. I'm not sure how me clarifying the obvious that my location of Leeds would mean I can't carry a gun, and me carrying one while being amused at the reaction of my fellow citizens would probably have assured my demise long before I returned to post here. Having a high emotional intelligence doesn't mean someone would necessarily pander to the emotional whims of someone else, a sociopath might use that high EQ to emotionally abuse someone for example. Do you have anything relevant to add to the debate or are you going to keep misinterpretating my posts forcing me to condescendingly explain them to you?

What are you talking about, of course your writing style can have a tone.

You're really not being condescending, you're showing yourself for what you are, a bit stupid and lacking in empathy.
 
Ok.

Lets put it simply.

How do YOU tell the person who is about to take that gun off their back and start shooting everyone from the person who is enjoying making other people uncomfortable, or the person that is so **** scared of "the bad people" that they need the reassurance of openly carrying a weapon that is pretty much useless at quickly protecting themselves, or in an enclosed area?

How do I tell a bus driver travelling in my direction while I'm walking on the pavement isn't suddenly going to veer into me and wipe me out from the bus driver just going about his job who is going to carry on? The answer of course is that I assume people are lawfully going about their business and that they aren't going to start murdering people without warning, otherwise I'd constantly be panicing about cars and vans suddenly deciding they want to start mowing people down, that can happen at any time. People do infact drive cars and vans into people on occasion. If someone is legally carrying a gun, why would you worry about that and not worry about someone driving down the street and crashing into you? Both are just legally going about their business. It's just you're scared of guns because they make you feel powerless, even though you're equally powerless walking next to a busy road.
 
Get more African Americans or Muslim Americans to start the open carry thing, especially Muslim American these days... in fact top it off with some Quran readings while open carrying or maybe wear a green headband with some islamic writing on it etc.. and you'll soon see the law change in open carry jurisdictions.
 
Get more African Americans or Muslim Americans to start the open carry thing, especially Muslim American these days... in fact top it off with some Quran readings while open carrying or maybe wear a green headband with some islamic writing on it etc.. and you'll soon see the law change in open carry jurisdictions.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of takers for that job given how reserved US police are when faced with people of colour doing innocent things, never mind antagonising people with guns.
 
I'm sure you'll get a lot of takers for that job given how reserved US police are when faced with people of colour doing innocent things, never mind antagonising people with guns.

Easy solution to that, get lots of African Americans with lots of guns...like more guns than the police and a few cameras - the "po-po" will think twice then - it is a ballsy move and it made for some very good photos when it happened before: :D

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^^^ this is literally part of the reason why California restricts open carry, a bunch of well armed African Americans rocked up to the State Capitol building exercising their own gun rights and even the NRA started advocating gun control!
 
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