Today's mass shooting in the US

[Rroff]

Get them deactivated then like we do in this country.

I'm not saying there that people don't also enjoy target shooting with them, which they might or might not - but emphasis being most of these people have no interest in using them to and never will to shoot a person let alone a child.

As per some of my other posts in this thread its possible to enjoy shooting firearms for target, etc. without having them able to use semi or fully automatic fire which begs the question as to why such firing modes are legal (though full auto is generally not). In bolt action, etc. type configuration it makes it very hard to use them to carry out sprees like this.

 

[Rroff]

True, but a post above states that they use guns to go hunting. And they have an AR-15.

There is a strange fascination with the AR-15 platform in the US not sure what it is. Plenty of people do go hunting with them.

 

[Rroff]

It's not closed minded, it's common sense.

If people are collecting weapons that could easily be used by themselves, or people who steal them, to commit mass murder, because they like the look then they're either stupid, selfish or both.

Aesthetics are at the bottom of any list of justifications for owning guns.

There is nothing common sense about that its closed minded prohibitionism.

The looks arent the sole justification.

TBH sometimes it is just looks - if our laws were different I'd get myself one of the original style Thompson sub machine gun because I think it is an interesting looking weapon - not too bothered about whether it was active or not but there is something about having one that can actually fire even if its entirely one shot and manual feeding without a working magazine. If I had an active one it would be stored entirely separate to the ammunition possibly at a range, etc.

To lump me in with people who'd commit acts like today because of it is disgusting.

 

[Rroff]

Isn't really that much more info than that on the BBC - lots of talk now about how the FBI were warned about him, etc.

Its a kind of sad indictment of the US that someone can own a gun at that age, make comments like he had online and nada absolutely nothing done though they are now claiming they were unable to accurately identify the person behind it.

 

[Rroff]

This is why i went into airsoft, sure it's not exactly the same (no proper recoil/noise), but you can just buy whatever takes your fancy. Plus shooting is much more fun when the target's allowed to shoot back

In fact i was at the local shop today and they'd just got a fresh batch of gas blow back m1 thompsons, i'd be tempted but i cant justify the money after getting an mg42 at christmas.

Of course i get why people want a real gun, i just cant be bothered with the hassle and expense, which is proof if more were needed that gun control works- i like guns and i wont even try to get one.

I used to do a bit my work colleagues who I went along with were more into it than I was though and they've since all left. I don't really enjoy shooting at things even airsoft (other than range targets) though - other than in video games which might seem a strange distinction heh. Though I'm not squeamish about it I'd never go hunting except out of necessity.

 

[Rroff]

Why doesn't usa get around 2nd amendment by prohibiting the sale of ammo?

That would conflict with the infringement part well armed isn't just about having a gun but being able to use it. Then there is the fact that (partly due to the whole thing about Obama banning sale of ammo) huge amounts have been stockpiled with an estimated near 100 billion rounds in civilian storage in the US.

One of the problems with the second amendment as per some of the posts above though is that a good number of those against firearms just want to see them gone they have no interest in the fact that the vast majority of those who own them are only interested in "quiet" enjoyment of them or any objectivity so there is no proper reasoned debate which might have a chance of substantial changes and suspicion of any suggestion of measures curtailing firearms.

EDIT: Good video on the situation in the UK here actually I think people might be surprised by the actual scale of firearm ownership in the UK and access despite the regulations we have: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78VDHtA-6YE yet we don't see (outside of some very exceptional ones) incidents like in the US without the need for some "common sense" complete taking away of guns.

 

[Rroff]

I’ve always been aware of friendly banter between the two countries, Canadians saying that Americans are loud and brash, and Americans saying that Canada is freezing and lives in the past, but I find it hard to believe that an educated, intelligent American would be unwelcome in Canada.

I'm not really intimate with Canadian/US relations - but when I was there a few years back did some day trips into Canada and hung out (at the same time) with a mixture of people from both countries and there didn't seem to be any friction at all other than some very light hearted banter and a lot of welcoming from the Canadian side and (positive) jokes about moving to Canada.

 

[Rroff]

Fair enough, just seeing as you mentioned you'd like a wall hanger. Its not for everyone thats for sure.

I used to have an airsoft MP5SD but things got a bit complicated when the VCRA stuff came in and I wasn't playing frequently was just easier to get rid of it.

EDIT: Its bugging me now thinking about it - can't remember if it was Tokyo Marui or Classic Army dunno why that suddenly popped into my head.

 

[Rroff]

As far as i understand it the vrca only covers buying new replicas, owning them is fine (even when "grandfathered") afaik.

Cant say its a side of it i've thought much of given i go regular anyway. Although i imagine as long as you arent waving it around in public it'll be fine.

When it was talked about it coming in it was a bit complicated and I didn't really want to be bothered with it.

 

[Rroff]

Kinda ironic its harder to get a toy gun in the uk than a real one in 'murica

Yeah :| saddens me that it wouldn't take much - just some common sense adjustments - to see a massive decline in incidents in the US - as per the video I posted earlier its feasible to own an AR-15 in the UK albeit in straight pull configuration yet we don't see incidents like the US. Even being relatively pro-gun I struggle to see the justification for semi-auto even in lower calibres outside of specific circumstances like those that live around dangerous wild animals, etc.

 

[Rroff]

Outside the troubles of course!

To my knowledge the vast number of firearms used in the troubles, etc. are/were not legally owned and not stolen legally owned but smuggled in from abroad, etc.

Many years back there was a garage raided near me with various pistol and even some ak47 type guns and something like 3000 rounds of ammo that were supposedly on their way to the IRA from like Denmark or Belgium or somewhere like that.

 

[Rroff]

Of course they used illegal guns! Jesus I don't think I need to explain that.

My point was in context of the US situation (and not so much in reply to you) in that in respect to the troubles even a complete legal ban wouldn't have done much if anything there.

 

[Rroff]

So you wouldn't be willing to give up owning some aesthetically pleasing shiny, even if the price was a school full of dead children?

We can see that in this country you don't need to give up owning firearms to reduce deaths from shooting incidents to practically zero.

Matters like this need serious, objective, reasoned debate not knee jerk emotional rhetoric.

 

[Rroff]

If I live in one of 31 states - I can go on to armslist.com/local Facebook selling sites and find a gun in my local area being sold privately with with zero, zilch, nada background checks. Some will even do next day delivery!

I think it was one of Hickoks videos - someone was prepared to drive near 200 miles to sell him a gun in a carpark same day, all legal, no checks.

 

[Rroff]

Pretending to kill
Pretending to kill
Admire how to kill
Collect of killing things - and it is a bit different; I have thousands of comics, I'd be hard pushed to kill you with them. Maybe with a big winch, Wile E Coyote style?
Celebrate past killing

Guns have one purpose - killing. Simple as. To pretend otherwise is just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

It doesn't matter anyway - the US made their choice when they decided the kids at Sandy Hook were an acceptable loss to keep unfettered, unregulated gun ownership.

This is part of the reason why pro-gun people in the US won't enter into debate about it - some might not get it but for some there is satisfaction in target shooting especially mastering 500+ yard where air movement, temperatures, ballistics and potentially even Coriolis on extreme ranges are all in play without any thought as to killing things or pretending to kill things.

One contention I have there is that you don't need semi let alone full automatic to accomplish that.

 

[Rroff]

Okay, I'm going to put forward a number of suggestions that I think might be useful. I don't know if any of these are already in force but let's see.

• Restrict known felons from buying guns
• Restrict people with ties to terrorism from buying guns (not sure if feasible, could link to govt watchlists?)
• Restrict people with a history of mental health problems from owning guns (could still allow them to attend ranges just not own, and could be rescinded dependent on medical recommendation)
• Restrict the second hand market to registered and licenced retailer who are required to comply with background checks
• Require safe storage of weaponry and prosecute people who lose their guns based on whether on not steps were taken to secure it.
• Licence gun ownerships, doesn't have to be massive, just register weaponry to named individuals
• Hefty penalties for unlicensed ownership or possessing a weapon for which you don't hold the licence.
• Unlicensed gun amnesties.
• Raise the minimum age to 21 but allow younger kids to use guns in association with a range or club.

No idea how many of these are already in force but look, some form of gun control and yet everybody (pretty much) still gets to carry a shoota' bruv.

Most of this is basically how we have it in the UK - some areas a little more strictly some less strictly (sometimes for practical reasons) and it pretty much works. Unfortunately it will never be a discussion in the US even though (and it wouldn't need a full implementation) measures along those lines would cut the number of firearms incidents by somewhere in the region of 75% in a relatively short space of time.

 

[Rroff]

The only argument I can see in favour of the status quo is the concern that it's regulation by inches, that giving some ground will inevitably lead to an eventual ban. I'm still not sure that's a good reason, especially given that the weight of the 2nd amendment and the national gun lobby should stop that short.

I can understand the concerns even though I'm frustrated by the lack of action given how relatively simple the measures are that could have a huge impact.

You see some of the posts above and that is magnified in the anti-gun lobby - many of those with no interest in firearms just want a blanket ban and all guns gone no interest in anything else or discussion - giving up even an inch is a slippery slope.

 

[Rroff]

Yeah thats basically it, if the US just tightened up its guns regulations a bit then it would at least help a little and the calls for a complete ban would ease.
But... instead its a stubborn no. Then another round of shootings, and more calls and more disgust all the time building until eventually something so bad will happen that they will be banned.
A
s shooting up a school is no where near the level needed for this to eventually happen i have to wonder just what it will take before the low IQ gun brigade nutters finally cave in... it wont be pretty and is avoidable if the massively inflated egos just stop with the foot stamping nonsense and at least tried to find a flipping way out of this crazy mess the country is in.

I'm not sure such an event exists - in the last few months there have been several school shootings, mass shooting at Vegas, mass shooting at two churches in Texas, etc. etc.

 

[Rroff]

I would just give every single American an assault rifle, in fact make it mandatory and watch the hilarity ensue.

Switzerland almost does that - they don't have mass shooting as a regular thing. (Though occasionally it does lead to violence).

 

[Rroff]

Even people who have strong gun rights tendencies are coming out against things like AR-15s, because they’re starting to see (finally) that it’s ridiculous for civilians to have these types of weapons,

Regardless of your position on the AR-15 its pretty crazy that someone around the age of 18 (the instagram, etc. stuff looks like hes had some of the firearms since 16-17) with a broken home background and then (unfortunate granted) events that lead to him not having a proper home, etc. coupled with all the issues at school and socially generally was simply allowed a weapon of that sort and not even a proper arrangement for storage, etc. of it by the looks of it with an ad hoc arrangement for it to be locked up where he was staying.