Today's mass shooting in the US

The most frustrating thing, is that the vast majority of Americans want common sense gun laws, restrictions and checks for years now, time and time again all the evidence has shown it. What's most shocking to me, is how the NRA have pumped so much money into the government, they're not working to protect the people - they're literally working for the NRA.

The thing that seems to be changing (albeit very very slowly), is that the politicians are now starting to worry about votes, there was a piece on CNN last night about how some senators and state governors etc, are now starting to shy away from the NRA - because it's going to cost them serious amounts of votes quite soon, unless they start listening to what the public want, instead of the NRA.

/rant; Since October, I've been in LA for 3 months (on and off) I drove through the aftermath of Vegas a week after, I saw the church shooting on the news, and the day after I flew in a month ago there was the school shooting, last night someone gunned 3 women down in a veterans home. Yet - they can't stop saying they're the greatest country on earth, the news, the politicians - everyone, they can't stop saying it, it's a big rich place - but omg, it's backward and weird in so many ways.
 
Screeeech said:
The most frustrating thing, is that the vast majority of Americans want common sense gun laws, restrictions and checks for years now, time and time again all the evidence has shown it. What's most shocking to me, is how the NRA have pumped so much money into the government, they're not working to protect the people - they're literally working for the NRA.

The thing that seems to be changing (albeit very very slowly), is that the politicians are now starting to worry about votes, there was a piece on CNN last night about how some senators and state governors etc, are now starting to shy away from the NRA - because it's going to cost them serious amounts of votes quite soon, unless they start listening to what the public want, instead of the NRA.
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Thing is though - I know a fair few people in the US who are "for" common sense gun laws but at the same time protective of their second amendment rights and can't see how that can happen without "erosion" of them. Not just the NRA though there are plenty of firearms owners in the US who are against any actual changes even though in the same breath many agree that something has to be done.

Screeeech said:
/rant; Since October, I've been in LA for 3 months (on and off) I drove through the aftermath of Vegas a week after, I saw the church shooting on the news, and the day after I flew in a month ago there was the school shooting, last night someone gunned 3 women down in a veterans home. Yet - they can't stop saying they're the greatest country on earth, the news, the politicians - everyone, they can't stop saying it, it's a big rich place - but omg, it's backward and weird in so many ways.
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I don't think most people in this country can even conceptualise it unless they spend some time living or working there - the movies, etc. don't even come close to portraying the environment.

On a related note I was always fascinated back in the early 2000s how for instance many parts of Michigan were like stepping into some alternative reality version of the UK in the 70s/80s with a weird anachronistic mix of one foot in the past and one foot in the future.
 
enkoda said:
The NRA really are desperate to see more dead school children - the legislation just prevents under 21s purchasing a gun, it doesn't violate that individual's right to own or use a gun.
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Why do you need to demonise people with different political opinions? They obviously don't want to see any children dead, they feel strongly about keeping gun rights intact. They are aware that it's a slippery slope where governments and laws are concerned, if you give them an inch on an issue then they'll take a mile, and before long things are just out right banned. Laws often get created but rarely are laws completely removed. In their eyes they may feel 21 is reasonable to own a gun, but they're more concerned that it then opens the door for more changes and restrictions in the future, so their strategy has to be to simply say no to any restrictions. And let's be honest, a lot of people do want guns completely banned, and that is their end goal - as much as they talk about reasonable "common sense" restrictions.
 
Rroff said:
Thing is though - I know a fair few people in the US who are "for" common sense gun laws but at the same time protective of their second amendment rights and can't see how that can happen without "erosion" of them. Not just the NRA though there are plenty of firearms owners in the US who are against any actual changes even though in the same breath many agree that something has to be done.
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Yeah I can agree with that, it's almost like people are gripped by a strange sort of paralysis, everyone knows that something has to be done - but nobody really wants to roll their sleeves up and do it, it's amazing how this is still the case when you stack it against the sheer carnage that has occurred in the last decade.

I dunno - it feels like the house is burning down, but people are more afraid of the water from the fire hoses than they are the fire that's killing them..

Rroff said:
I don't think most people in this country can even conceptualise it unless they spend some time living or working there - the movies, etc. don't even come close to portraying the environment.

On a related note I was always fascinated back in the early 2000s how for instance many parts of Michigan were like stepping into some alternative reality version of the UK in the 70s/80s with a weird anachronistic mix of one foot in the past and one foot in the future.
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It really is a strange place in many ways, very old fashioned in a lot of aspects, and yeah - I did some work in Michigan last year, it's weird how you have one of the worlds best universities a stones throw from Detroit, we went for a drive through some of the "less affluent" areas, and it just beggars belief (google highland park detroit) some of the sky scrapers downtown are literally derelict and full of squatters, - it basically is like the 80s set to Robocop
 
Screeeech said:
It really is a strange place in many ways, very old fashioned in a lot of aspects, and yeah - I did some work in Michigan last year, it's weird how you have one of the worlds best universities a stones throw from Detroit, we went for a drive through some of the "less affluent" areas, and it just beggars belief (google highland park detroit) some of the sky scrapers downtown are literally derelict and full of squatters, - it basically is like the 80s set to Robocop
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Flew into Detroit metropolitan a few years back and did a trip out through Ann Arbor (quite a nice place) and on almost to Chicago a few years back. Quite a varied experience.

Didn't spend much time in Detroit but enough to get the general picture heh.
 
Roar87 said:
They obviously don't want to see any children dead, they feel strongly about keeping gun rights intact.
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They can't have both; other countries with less-obsessive gun cultures accepted this, but the US is unwilling to. Either they face the reality of the situation and become willing to discuss and compromise, or they'll continue to be seen as an organisation that stands in the way of protecting innocent people from being killed by legally-acquired firearms.

Saying they "feel strongly" is putting it rather lightly, considering the lobbying and the money that they use to influence political attitude and legislation.
 
Roar87 said:
Why do you need to demonise people with different political opinions? They obviously don't want to see any children dead, they feel strongly about keeping gun rights intact. They are aware that it's a slippery slope where governments and laws are concerned, if you give them an inch on an issue then they'll take a mile, and before long things are just out right banned. Laws often get created but rarely are laws completely removed. In their eyes they may feel 21 is reasonable to own a gun, but they're more concerned that it then opens the door for more changes and restrictions in the future, so their strategy has to be to simply say no to any restrictions. And let's be honest, a lot of people do want guns completely banned, and that is their end goal - as much as they talk about reasonable "common sense" restrictions.
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Isn't the legislation just to restrict the sale of guns? There is nothing being introduced that alters the current laws around access to weapons for under 21s.
 
Roar87 said:
Why do you need to demonise people with different political opinions? They obviously don't want to see any children dead, they feel strongly about keeping gun rights intact.
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They would prefer to see every single american child to die then give up their guns or add anymore gun control. A lot of them believe there shouldn't be any control at all, no restrictions, nothing.

I seen this said in many American discords.
 
What could possibly go wrong with arming teachers?

Oh, hang on...

SEASIDE, Calif. (AP) — Police say a teacher in California accidentally fired his gun in a classroom, injuring three students.

It happened Tuesday at Seaside High School as Dennis Alexander was teaching a gun safety lesson for his administration of justice class.

Police say Alexander, who also serves as a reserve police officer, was pointing the gun at the ceiling to make sure it was not loaded when the weapon discharged.

Three students were injured by debris, including a 17-year-old whose father told KSBW-TV his son sustained moderate injuries when bullet fragments lodged in his neck.

Alexander was placed on administrative leave from his teaching job and he was also placed on administrative leave at the Sand City Police Department.
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I mean, +10 points for the irony of managing this in a gun safety lesson, -200 points for managing it in the first place :rolleyes:
 
The armed teachers getting involved in accidents has been going on for a while, there have been numerous instances of it, there have also been incidents of serving police officers in the US having accidental discharges whilst on school property (giving safety lectures etc).
 
Werewolf said:
The armed teachers getting involved in accidents has been going on for a while, there have been numerous instances of it, there have also been incidents of serving police officers in the US having accidental discharges whilst on school property (giving safety lectures etc).
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Yeah the famous one of "I'm allowed to do this because I'm a professional" moments later accidentally shoots himself in the leg.
 
Werewolf said:
The armed teachers getting involved in accidents has been going on for a while, there have been numerous instances of it, there have also been incidents of serving police officers in the US having accidental discharges whilst on school property (giving safety lectures etc).
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Indeed. And the solution to this is emphatically not "mo' guns", no matter how much the NRA would like it to be!
 
Werewolf said:
The armed teachers getting involved in accidents has been going on for a while, there have been numerous instances of it, there have also been incidents of serving police officers in the US having accidental discharges whilst on school property (giving safety lectures etc).
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I admit that I don't know much about guns, but aren't modern ones carefully designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled? And isn't one of the most basic rules of gun safety to not touch the trigger unless you're intending to fire?
 
Angilion said:
I admit that I don't know much about guns, but aren't modern ones carefully designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled? And isn't one of the most basic rules of gun safety to not touch the trigger unless you're intending to fire?
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You'd think that but "safer guns" tend to have things that annoy the gun fanatics and showoffs, and are a compromise when it comes to getting them into use fast.

Customised trigger actions (lighter pull), trigger based safety mechanisms to make it easier/faster to go from holstered to ready to fire (iirc the safety is based on how far you pull the trigger rather than a separate lever/switch/locking mech), popular styles of holster that regularly get caught on the trigger as you pull the weapon out (or clothing catching on the trigger/hammer etc), deliberately leaving a round in the chamber so it's ready to fire.
Those are just some of the risks people have consciously decided to take.

That's before you ever start to look at poor maintenance (which can cause anything from a jam, to accidental discharge), poor handling of the weapon, the innate ability of humans to be endlessly stupid, and things only get worse when you start to have concealed carry and people who think they're John Wick because they've had a mornings training, 5 years ago, or get so used to carrying the gun that they treat it like their car keys, wallet or phone (it's not at all unheard of for American police to leave their guns in toilets etc, and that's been known to happen with the armed teachers in areas that allow them).
 
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Angilion said:
I admit that I don't know much about guns, but aren't modern ones carefully designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled? And isn't one of the most basic rules of gun safety to not touch the trigger unless you're intending to fire?
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whats more concerning is that clearing a firearm and checking it's safe is not a hard task, and should be the first part of any safety exercise involving a firearm
 
adolf hamster said:
whats more concerning is that clearing a firearm and checking it's safe is not a hard task, and should be the first part of any safety exercise involving a firearm
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In the video linked above he claims in a follow up video that due to his job he is supposed to have a loaded firearm on him at all times (which seems to be a common theme with these accidental discharge events in demos at schools) - which still questions his judgement as he chose to show them his personal (loaded) weapon rather than use all unloaded/props. (For the purpose of gun safety though there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm - you should always consider a firearm "loaded" even when you've cleared it).
 
Rroff said:
In the video linked above he claims in a follow up video that due to his job he is supposed to have a loaded firearm on him at all times (which seems to be a common theme with these accidental discharge events in demos at schools) - which still questions his judgement as he chose to show them his personal (loaded) weapon rather than use all unloaded/props. (For the purpose of gun safety though there is no such thing as an unloaded firearm - you should always consider a firearm "loaded" even when you've cleared it).
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indeed, this is the major problem with any american gun argument is that there are too many examples of this level of basic idiocy when it comes to the fundamentals of firearm safety.

very few guns are complicated to use (in the basic sense of loading/unloading and firing), so there's no excuse.
 
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