Took a "Blobeye" Impreza STI PPP out today

[Gibbo]

Gibbo: You're clearly a 4WD man, but I completely disagree. I didn't think it handled that great - although not bad either, I was impressed at how controllable it was once things got a little out of hand, but the steering was far too light, ride was crashy the only other thing it really had was traction.

When you're comparing how fast they feel, are you talking about off the line? If so, I completely agree - there is no way I could even dream of getting the ST off the line even close to that quick, but once moving the scoob lost its edge for me.

I'd love to compare my experience in the scoob to something like a FQ300.



I suppose you've driven both?

No I'm a RWD man to be honest, 4WD is less fun on wet roundabouts.

My biggest issue with the ST and yes I've only driven a stock one but it was so goddam boring to drive and in my view the handling was only OK and high speed corners were a big no no it just felt well not very confidence inspiring. This was a new ST, in perfect condition, so not abused. At the time I had the CSL and lets just say in a straight line there it was no competition, put a corner into the mix and well it was not even remotely close.

Now I understand a remap probably brings an ST to live on throttle response and power, but its still got the same handling characteriscts and steering etc. which I just plain did not like.

My experience of Scoobies is they are sharper, the turbo is more aggressive, but maybe not compared to a remapped ST but yes Scoobies can suffer understeer when pushing hard. But that is the art of 4WD drive cars you can push them beyond their traction limits and they are controllable and predictable which inspires confidence, sometimes too much which ends in disaster.

Still I'd take a Scooby over a Focus, the biggest annoying thing of the ST for me is FWD, having owned many FWD, RWD and 4WD cars, FWD are just fail when it comes to driving experience, yes there are some super quick FWD cars but I get far more pleasure from a RWD or 4WD car, I generally just find FWD annoying, torque steer, understeer bah.

If your Focus is 275BHP and an STI is 300BHP, then on a roll performance there will indeed be practically nothing in it, off the mark yep Scooby all the way, on a roll probably evenish but a good condition Scoob should out handle, be more stable than a Focus.

You know what to do, just stop messing around and get a proper car, get an EVO just make sure its an FQ of some description. If you test drive an EVO make sure you test drive an EVO 9 FQ-360 MR, its the best without a doubt and silly fast. Then buy an 8/9 FQ-300 for peanuts and spend about 2-3k getting it upto 400 horses.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

How long were you out in it, OP? It does sound like you've either got a dud (turbo lag, poor brakes, really?) or you weren't pressing on as hard as the AWD can take over a FWD car.

Ride harsh - yes but not terrible.
Cabin noise unbearable - no, it's loud but certainly not unbearable.
Great launch - we agree on this at least.

I'm really not sure how this has left you feeling underwhelmed compared to an ST, even if it is finned. Regardless of all that, do what Gibbo said and take an FQ-360MR for a test drive

Just make sure not to come back and tell us your Focus felt better, rawer and faster

 

[Meridian]

How heavily was the OP using the brakes? The Brembos are a little underwhelming if not used hard. If you really hit them though, you'll be scraping your face off the windscreen. I have to say that I found the brake pressure a little inconsistent, which is why I (and many others) fitted braided hoses. Same as most things on STIs: it only comes alive when driven like you stole it. The harsh ride is a problem at low speed, but at silly speeds it will glide, even on bumpy roads.

But I've noticed something: when Performance Car A is described as "underwhelming" compared to Performance Car B, this is usually because A the poster is used to B, and because A has better handling. Underwhelming is a euphemism for "more composed". This is why many classic Scoob owners complained that Newages were "underwhelming": because they just handled much better, and the Classic owners were used to fighting their car.


M

 

[J1nxy]

If its a stock PPP STI with the 2.0 engine its more likely to be running nearer 285 BHP than the quoted 300, and that will be even worse on 95 RON fuel. Mine hated the stuff ,was lifeless and didn't pull that well with non-super.

 

[MikeHiow]

I think I need to clarify something. I took the scoob for a proper blast, and found my self accelerating through some corners where I'd still be braking in the ST. This is wonderful, but I didn't find this bit 'fun', it was just going fast. Much the same as doing silly speeds on the motorway isn't fun.

I understand your points on the limitations of FWD Gibbo, but on the road I find you can take bigger liberties and spend more time at the limit without going OTT. So you see, I'm not suggesting that the scoob wasn't faster A-B, just that if I had to do that drive again, I'd choose the Focus to do it in.

Meridian - it wasn't like they didn't work, they just seemed to lack feel in a big way - once stepped on, they never failed to stop in good time but they seemed almost too progressive in doing so.

It would seem I'm pretty much alone in my driving preferences, assuming everyone here has actually driven one.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I won't deconstruct your above post because (1) I don't have time and (2) it'd be tedious to read but what you've described is what the Scooby is about : accelerating through corners when your brain is screaming 'NO!' and then going even faster out of the bend. Going faster on the motorway isn't really a comparison.

Not sure how brakes can be 'too progressive'? Isn't that like brakes working 'too well'?

Anyway, you're right. It's a preference and from what you've said, it underlines that you made the right choice in choosing your ST. Horses for courses and all that jazz

 

[Fett]

Maybe my butt dyno isn't so bad, after all.

I'm not sure how you can get a through the gears 30-70 time when I posted two seperate in-gear times.

MY05 STi PPP: 305bhp/300lb ft
30-70 through the gears: 4.7 sec (see below)
30-50 in 3rd: 2.7
40-60 in 3rd: 2.4
50-70 in 3rd: 2.6
60-80 in 3rd: 3.0

40-60 in 4th: 3.1
50-70 in 4th: 3.0
60-80 in 4th: 3.2
70-90 in 4th: 3.5
80-100 in 4th: 4.0

No official or timed 30-70 through the gears, but the MY06 has the same 0-100, a slower 0-60 and give or take a tenth in 3rd, has the same in-gear times. The MY06 STi PPP 30-70 is 4.7, the MY05 WRX PPP is 5.1 so I don't think 4.7 sec is that far off.

Evo have a standard ST (2008) at:

40-60 in 4th: 4.1
50-70 in 4th: 4.3
60-80 in 4th: 4.6
70-90 in 4th: 5.1
80-100 in 4th: 6.6

Graham Goode ST (300bhp) claims 5.1 sec for 30-70 mph. The other ST that Evo tested was 327bhp/358lb ft (K06 turbo,header, IC, ECU) was 4.5 seconds
30-70 through the gears.

I'm not sure how you are convinced that your ST was significantly faster when the scoob tends to lend itself of feeling a bit quicker than it actually is, up to 90 at least.

If the dealer is making a habit lending the car out to a pair of lads to have a play and full bore launches, it's probably not the best example going. If you are stepping out of it and complaining about it feeling slower than an ST and with "lifeless" brakes, something isn't right.

You know what to do, just stop messing around and get a proper car, get an EVO just make sure its an FQ of some description. If you test drive an EVO make sure you test drive an EVO 9 FQ-360 MR, its the best without a doubt and silly fast. Then buy an 8/9 FQ-300 for peanuts and spend about 2-3k getting it upto 400 horses.

He didn't like the harsh ride. He didn't like the noise. He didn't like the cheap interior and wasn't a fan of the traction or handling. I'm not sure an FQ is going to help.

 

[MikeHiow]

I'm not saying my ST was significantly faster, but it certainly feels it, but that could be due to the extra torque, which is probably delivered in a bigger lump. In theory I would expect the much lower rotating mass on the STs FWD system and it's lesser transmission losses to play a part, too.

I'm happy to accept the correction that the Subaru is faster, it just doesn't feel it.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The 3.9 seconds time I posted was from Evo on a 330bhp newage Impreza.

This is why I just cannot really take anything MikeHiow says seriously. He seems to live in his own little world where his experiences and the things he finds, or at least claims to find, just compeltely contradict everything else including other peoples experience, hard fact and common sense. It's like the entire world is wrong and MikeHiow is right.

I won't even start on the likelyhood of getting into a car youve never driven in your life with a drivetrain layout you've little experience with and instantly driving it at 10/10ths on the road with enough courage and conviction to declare a Focus ST as, well, basically a much better car and, I quote, 'significantly faster'.

But of course the biggest issue with this sort of thing is that MikeHiow isn't an idiot. He can form proper sentances, he can post eloquent accounts of what he felt. So people don't instantly dismiss whatever he's said as being a bit weird like you would had he posted 'lol my st was proper wikkid the scoob sucked', which is effectively what his point was.

Which is why I feel it's important to challenge his opinions at every opportunity so that we may ensure he's not going off into La-La-Land again.

Classic example:

I'm confident that the in gear times of the ST are significantly faster

I'm not saying my ST was significantly faster

 

[MikeHiow]

The second quote was after i was corrected. I'm happy to accept that my original statement was wrong.

As for getting in a car and straight away having the confidence to put it through its paces - the only thing I declared the ST faster on (which I now know to be wrong) was in gear times, and it doesn't take a genius to stamp on the throttle. The rest is subjective, but I'm happy to conclude the Scoob is faster through the bends - my point was it wasn't as fun for me.

For everyday driving, yes I think the ST is a much better car, but this is mainly on refinement - the Subaru would be intolerable every day for me. As a weekend car its downfalls become irrelevant.

Don't forget, my OP even indicates that I was surprised by my feelings and findings, which is why I wanted to post up here and find out what others thought. You're not the only one that finds my experience odd; I did too.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The second quote was after i was corrected. I'm happy to accept that my original statement was wrong.

But that doesn't change the fact that until you were corrected, you for some reason felt your ST was faster even though its really a much slower car.

So if your perception was that far off on this case, I wonder which of your other experiences are the same..?

 

[realscot]

I'd agree that the ST would be a far better daily driver, I find most of the scoobs (and evo's for that matter) become just annoying at lower speeds. It'd be no contest on a B road thrash though.

 

[MikeHiow]

I don't think its much slower though, is it? When we compare remapped times to 05 PPP times (Which is 300bhp, not 330 as the times you quoted were).

With all the cars you've experienced, you must be aware of how cars can feel massively different, with torque mainly (The ST's strong point) being able to sway things massively.

All I can suggest Fox, is that you find a remapped/Mountuned ST to have a go in. Once you've experienced that power delivery, I'm sure you'd understand my point.

 

[Smokey26]

Hahah. It needs VTEC the scoob.

 

[Gaijin]

For everyday driving, yes I think the ST is a much better car, but this is mainly on refinement - the Subaru would be intolerable every day for me. As a weekend car its downfalls become irrelevant.

Comfort is for gays.

 

[Joshy]

Is the interior of a ST focus massively different to that of a "standard" model?

I ask because you keep on mentioning how much an awful place the Impreza was to your ST. Not been in a ST, but I've experineced the ordinary Focus of that generation and while it isn't exactly it dire, it isn't exactly a Bentley. Just the same old story of acres of dull, dreary plastic just like you'd expect from a hatchback, certainly nothing special.

 

[MikeHiow]

I'm not saying the ST is amazing, and it isn't all about appearance - it is about feel. Besides, I never compared the interior to the ST, only the cabin noise. Its the one point everyone else completely agrees on, so why have you come in questioning it?

 

[Clarkey]

Is the interior of a ST focus massively different to that of a "standard" model?

I ask because you keep on mentioning how much an awful place the Impreza was to your ST. Not been in a ST, but I've experineced the ordinary Focus of that generation and while it isn't exactly it dire, it isn't exactly a Bentley. Just the same old story of acres of dull, dreary plastic just like you'd expect from a hatchback, certainly nothing special.

Come on now, I'm a Jap fanboy through and through, but a Focus has a higher quality interior than most Jap stuff.


Otherwise, this whole argument has just gone silly. Now, even MikeHiow has agreed that the Subaru is a proper car and a FWD with an open diff and powerful engine isn't even in the same league when it comes to driving fast cross country. Then he changes his tune and tries to say that for driving fast on B roads, going fast actually isn't interesting Will he just say anything at all to defend his Focus?

 

[MikeHiow]

Numbers on a speedo are not fun, no. Driving dynamics, user input and car response, and getting a car close to its limits are far more important to me.

I think you're getting too caught up about the comparisons with the Focus - that isn't what this is about. Actual speeds, no the Focus isn't as fast but to me on public roads it is more fun and better to live with.

The easiest, shortest way of explaining it to me, is having to go significantly faster to get closer to the limits of grip and traction is not attractive to me - please don't pick this apart, as it isn't that simple - just the general direction of where I'm coming from.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Will he just say anything at all to defend his Focus?

I think he forgets what he said before so ends up accidently posting a new opinion each time.