Top 3 national anthems

[Jean-F]

Taking nationalist opinions aside, FOS is a much better song than GSTQ. It's not the best but it's certainly a better song.

Billy Connolly said it better about GSTQ and other anthems (skip to 1:15 onwards if some people are easily triggered ) :

It is a terribly boring song

While I have to agree with you that GSTQ is a boring dirge, and also that there is nothing
wrong with FOS, after the ill judged "jokes" that the alleged Scots comic Connolly came
out with about beheading engineer Kenneth Bigley, I wouldn't urinate on him if he was alight.

 

[keyser]

 

[Hotwired]

You lived in Scotland for ten years and what?

And I'm commenting on the song Flower of Scotland, considerably more likely to be heard and sung, in Scotland where I did exactly that.

Your petty moaning says plenty and doesn't even attempt to contribute, three garbage posts in a row from you and somehow 2/3 avoided being deleted.

 

[Orangeade]

England's should be Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country.

Or Vindaloo by Fat Les.

Ours is a dirge.

Jerusalem is the winner for me. Would be so much better.

 

[R.P.L]

Flower of Scotland is preferred because it evokes national pride

Isn't national pride deemed a bad thing that's only favoured by racist people in 2021? I find it so hard to keep up with the latest morality trends.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Isn't national pride deemed a bad thing that's only favoured by racist people in 2021? I find it so hard to keep up with the latest morality trends.

That's English national pride. Scottish and Welsh national pride is not viewed in that way at all.

 

[Destination]

I like the US anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, taken from a poem penned after we invaded Fort McHenry in 1814. Sung solo or en masse the Francis Scott Key anthem has charisma and presence.

Very rarely sung en masse, as its bloody awful musically and notational, very poor structure, and generally they all stand hand on heart while someone capable of singing it does the business.
The French anthem is completely the opposite, it can be well sung en mass by a crowd anywhere and has wonderful musical notation to it. I think it is the best anthem.

The rugby songs, for Scotland, Ireland and Wales are bloody good to hear a crowd of 50 thousand men singing, very rousing, each excellent.

 

[R.P.L]

That's English national pride. Scottish and Welsh national pride is not viewed in that way at all.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I'll make sure I identify as Scottish or Welsh before next indulging in any national pride.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I'll make sure I identify as Scottish or Welsh before next indulging in any national pride.

Your sardonic reply is really impressive and unexpected, and in no way does it avoid confronting the anomaly by shutting down the conversation. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Angilion]

I've previously lived in scotland for over a decade and not once thought of flower of scotland as anything other than a better song to have to sing than the british national anthem.

If you actually care about lyrics then you'll note that the british national anthem is an eccentric praise of the monarch which is super outdated and best not to think too hard about.

Yes, it is. Alternatively, it's traditional and has cultural importance on that basis. I'm in two minds about that. It's a dreary old song, though.

Then there's the issue of inertia. Changing a centuries old national anthem is a bigger thing than choosing a national anthem when you don't already have one.

If you don't actually care about lyrics, why have any? An instrumental would definitely be "a better song to have to sing" than anything with lyrics because you wouldn't have to sing it at all. Or have "Death to foreigners, kill them all!" as the lyrics. If the lyrics are of no importance at all, that would be fine. It wouldn't even be trolling - you have to attach some importance to something in order to troll about it.

 

[Angilion]

Isn't national pride deemed a bad thing that's only favoured by racist people in 2021? I find it so hard to keep up with the latest morality trends.

Like everything else in "progressive" ideology (or any other irrational prejudice), it's all a matter of group identity and hierarchy. National pride is deemed to be a good thing in countries deemed by "progressives" to be superior (in this case, Scotland or Wales) and a bad thing in countries deemed by "progressives" to be inferior (in this case, England). It's par for the course for any irrational prejudice, e.g. a white supremacist would regard white pride as good and black pride as bad and a black supremacist would regard black pride as good and white pride as bad.

The fashionable targeting changes over time and place and the degree of honesty and hypocrisy sometimes varies, but the underlying idea (group identity and a hierarchy of group identities) doesn't change. Sadly.

[regarding the USA national anthem) Very rarely sung en masse, as its bloody awful musically and notational, very poor structure, and generally they all stand hand on heart while someone capable of singing it does the business. [..]

It was composed as a drinking song for an English social club and the USA version has a seperately written poem that was never intended to be sung shoe-horned into the English drinking song. Given that, it's not surprising it's badly suited to singing.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Like everything else in "progressive" ideology (or any other irrational prejudice), it's all a matter of group identity and hierarchy. National pride is deemed to be a good thing in countries deemed by "progressives" to be superior (in this case, Scotland or Wales) and a bad thing in countries deemed by "progressives" to be inferior (in this case, England). It's par for the course for any irrational prejudice, e.g. a white supremacist would regard white pride as good and black pride as bad and a black supremacist would regard black pride as good and white pride as bad.

Interesting theory, although I think it might be more to do with the enduring imagery depicting hoardes of football hooligans brandishing knives and nazi salutes, smashing local skulls in Johnny Foreigner's stomping ground while belting out their coveted anthem.

Then there's the Welsh, who are content to fill the stadium with the sound of their voice and swollen chest. And the Scots, happy to sit in a fountain and nurture a sunburn while giving us a rendition of theirs.

But of course that couldn't possibly be the case as it doesn't quite fit the victim mentality that the English seem to be coveting these days.

 

[chroniclard]

Who actually thinks national pride is a bad thing....are you just making stuff up....or just mixing up issues....

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Who actually thinks national pride is a bad thing....are you just making stuff up....or just mixing up issues....

Isn't national pride deemed a bad thing that's only favoured by racist people in 2021

 

[Werewolf]

I would like to include a new contender for best national anthem, if we're allowed to include those for fictional city states...

It's even got the all important bit where you go ner ner nerner ner ner ner.

 

[Hotwired]

Yes, it is. Alternatively, it's traditional and has cultural importance on that basis. I'm in two minds about that. It's a dreary old song, though.

Then there's the issue of inertia. Changing a centuries old national anthem is a bigger thing than choosing a national anthem when you don't already have one.

If you don't actually care about lyrics, why have any? An instrumental would definitely be "a better song to have to sing" than anything with lyrics because you wouldn't have to sing it at all. Or have "Death to foreigners, kill them all!" as the lyrics. If the lyrics are of no importance at all, that would be fine. It wouldn't even be trolling - you have to attach some importance to something in order to troll about it.

There's a lot of ground between trying to present an antagonistic angle and flipping to abolishing lyrics if you can't have that.

You're keen on antagonism in lyrics and specified FoS but I have never seen FoS used as a means to troll England and it's really bad for it seeing as it references a 700 year old event.

On inertia, that song is only 50-60 years old yet has a majority supporting it and it displaced Scotland the Brave. Got a good sound to it, easy lyrics and references an ancient military victory for scottishness points.

The british national anthem was crushed in a public vote in 2010 when the question of an English national anthem was brought up for commonwealth games so we have Jerusalem which I see as heavy on the religious angle (hilariously there's a religious angle that says it's too nationalistic) but it sounds good and is upbeat, not sure if I'd favour it as the best replacement.

A much broader public vote on GStQ has not been allowed to happen. I have doubts it would survive a public vote. It got 12% even with a split vote option for it, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory in the commonwealth games vote. That's how much inertia it had.

 

[Gerard]

Taking nationalist opinions aside, FOS is a much better song than GSTQ. It's not the best but it's certainly a better song.

Billy Connolly said it better about GSTQ and other anthems (skip to 1:15 onwards if some people are easily triggered ) :

It is a terribly boring song

Not even sure how gtsq is classified as a national anthem when it’s essentially an ode to a single person, doesn’t mention the country at all like most other national anthems.

 

[Angilion]

There's a lot of ground between trying to present an antagonistic angle and flipping to abolishing lyrics if you can't have that. [..]

I was replying to you saying that it's better solely because it's easier to sing and that the lyrics to a national anthem don't matter. The best anthem in that context would be an instrumental one. Can't get easier to sing than that and if the lyrics don't matter why have any?

Since none of the nations of the UK have their own national anthem, the issue of replacing a centuries-old one doesn't apply in that context. But how would you feel about an English national anthem being chosen that was about one or more of the times Scotland invaded England and was defeated? Nothing about England, just about defeating Scotland. Would you approve of it on the basis that it had a good sound, easy lyrics and referenced an old military victory for Englishness points? Or would you apply very different standards?

 

[Richie]

The current one references what you say already

The little-known and even less-sung sixth verse of God Save the Queen implores God to come to the aid of Marshal George Wade, who was sent to quell rebellious Scottish highlanders in the wake of the Jacobite rising of 1715.

It says: "May he sedition hush, And like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush."

EDIT: Scotland looked at voting to choose a new national anthem. Wild Mountain Thyme, Caledonia and others were put forward but it didn't go anywhere.

 

[Hotwired]

I was replying to you saying that it's better solely because it's easier to sing and that the lyrics to a national anthem don't matter. The best anthem in that context would be an instrumental one. Can't get easier to sing than that and if the lyrics don't matter why have any?

Since none of the nations of the UK have their own national anthem, the issue of replacing a centuries-old one doesn't apply in that context. But how would you feel about an English national anthem being chosen that was about one or more of the times Scotland invaded England and was defeated? Nothing about England, just about defeating Scotland. Would you approve of it on the basis that it had a good sound, easy lyrics and referenced an old military victory for Englishness points? Or would you apply very different standards?

No, you're saying lyrics don't matter as a strawman. I questioned your antagonistic emphasis on the lyrics of FoS when the official anthem for the UK has extremely poor lyrics for this day and age... which you agreed on but decided to spin into a claim of lyrics not mattering.

You're presenting it as equal value but the status of Scotland to England is such that a song celebrating a military victory over Scotland by England would have to overcome an enormous cringe factor since England has always been larger, more powerful and literally paid Scotland to join the current union after Scottish nobles went broke. There is no pride or honour in punching down.

The fact that Scots find connection to a time when there was a victory over England 700 years ago is not in perfect taste but it's a reasonable basis for their anthem since it reflects their low level resentment to this day from being the smaller neighbour and partner to England over hundreds of years.

That song wasn't imposed, it has recent public approval as the anthem for Scotland and while there are no official anthems this is the unofficial anthem.

GStQ had so much public approval ~300 years ago when the monarch had a lot more relevance that many other countries decided to have an anthem. But recently? It loses public votes where those votes get allowed.

Whether you like the lyrics or not doesn't really come into it if the people want it as their anthem to sing and represent them. Something which can be clearly said for FoS and not so much for GStQ.