Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

I've decided to start playing the stock market as well. I've done lots of research and have friends who are traders and brokers so believe I am in a comfortable position.

Its shocking the amount barclays shares have risen. I believe they are around their peak now but I'm still very interested in lloyds and rbs shares. They are still low in comparison to what they were worth a few years ago.... im not sure they are ever going to reach that figure again but do believe that the shares of one of them will double in value eventually even if it takes a few months. (Looking at rbs they are 4x worth what they were in jan).

Iv set up an account with hoodless brennan and hoping to start trading soon, i have a fair bit of money available to me so hoping to get some nice gains.

What are everyones thoughts on my thoughts?
 
blackapache said:
I've decided to start playing the stock market as well. I've done lots of research and have friends who are traders and brokers so believe I am in a comfortable position.

Its shocking the amount barclays shares have risen. I believe they are around their peak now but I'm still very interested in lloyds and rbs shares. They are still low in comparison to what they were worth a few years ago.... im not sure they are ever going to reach that figure again but do believe that the shares of one of them will double in value eventually even if it takes a few months. (Looking at rbs they are 4x worth what they were in jan).

Iv set up an account with hoodless brennan and hoping to start trading soon, i have a fair bit of money available to me so hoping to get some nice gains.

What are everyones thoughts on my thoughts?
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Just the usual (& from first hand experience) only invest what you can afford to lose!!!

RBS and Lloyds, although there are risks, seem a good risk for what could be gained from them. If all goes well, then over a longterm you could do very nicely. If something bad happens you probably wouldn't lose your money, but it would be a longer investment time and less of a profit...

I bought more RBS yesterday at 41.7... I would have bought earlier in the week and made a nice profit if it hadn't been for my concerns over the flu :(
 
blackapache said:
I've decided to start playing the stock market as well.
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If you try to 'play' anything, you'll lose and will lose hard. Take it seriously


I believe they are around their peak now
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How have you come to that conclusion?


but I'm still very interested in lloyds and rbs shares. They are still low in comparison to what they were worth a few years ago....
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Using historical data to presrntly value a company is dangerous and flawed. If you do believe that historical pricing is a gauge, then why do you think BARC has 'reached its peak'? Its average value is higher and rolls for longer than LLOY or RBS ever did.


im not sure they are ever going to reach that figure again but do believe that the shares of one of them will double in value eventually even if it takes a few months.
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And if some other bad news comes between then? If a fund, bank or company collapses?


(Looking at rbs they are 4x worth what they were in jan).
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Again, flawed thinking.


What are everyones thoughts on my thoughts?
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I suggest you get a book before you start throwing money away.
 
I can't disagree with the sound advice Hatter The Mad has given you, however.
I may be totally wrong with my thinking but I'm currently 3.5k up after trading for 4 weeks, in my opinion RBS and LLoyds will keep rising, of course it is a gamble but in 12 months time will RBS be around 43p a share, I'm extremely confident they won't.

I'm not advising you to buy any shares, I can handle the loss if it all goes wrong, like I said before I'd be more annoyed not buying any shares and watching them go upwards than buying them and taking a loss.

I think however by the time you've bought a book and read it, RBS shares would probably have gone up quite a bit. Would reading a book alter your decision which is based on logical thinking, I mean do you really care about the Moving Average Convergence / Divergence indicator?
 
chipperhead said:
I can't disagree with the sound advice Hatter The Mad has given you, however.
I may be totally wrong with my thinking but I'm currently 3.5k up after trading for 4 weeks, in my opinion RBS and LLoyds will keep rising, of course it is a gamble but in 12 months time will RBS be around 43p a share, I'm extremely confident they won't.

I'm not advising you to buy any shares, I can handle the loss if it all goes wrong, like I said before I'd be more annoyed not buying any shares and watching them go upwards than buying them and taking a loss.

I think however by the time you've bought a book and read it, RBS shares would probably have gone up quite a bit. Would reading a book alter your decision which is based on logical thinking, I mean do you really care about the Moving Average Convergence / Divergence indicator?
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Yes and no...

Over ten years ago I started dealing. It seemed at the time you couldn't lose... After a few quick 'wins', I, and lot of other people (at the time) all lost. I was five figures down in no time! Not touched shares again till recently...

That all said, I'm no expert and have put money into Lloyds and RBS simply as a high gains gamble...
 
Haha i knew when posting i'd at least get one standard ocuk response. :)
Thanks for your points anyway.

I believe barc is more or less at its peak now (in this current climate) as it has gone down to a low of around 50 yet managed to bounce back up to around 280. Although yes you are correct that it has been a lot higher than this I believe it is around its max at the moment until the economy starts to pick up.

Rbs and lloy are still relatively low, although yes rbs went down to 10p back in jan they are x4 now yet still well under a tenth of their value a few years ago (compared to barc which are now around 1/3 of their peak in 2007).
Im not saying that rbs shares are ever going to reach that again but i believe we should see it at least creep back to 100 unless some other disaster happens, even if it takes a while.

Lastly there is no need to be so pedantic. I said they were my thoughts and yes I asked for the thoughts of others but there is no need to have said yours in such a way and take everything I said so literally.
It is my money that im gambling (and I admit that is exactly what Im doing yet if I said I was going to start in the casino I expect you would have been much less pedantic - possibly because its not an area you like to think you know lots about (I'm not saying u do or dont :))) and really my problem if I lose it.

Thanks once again.

BA :D
 
Daft wuestion I know, just trying to learn about stock trading, what classifies as a trade? If I buy £1000 worth of shares, and its £8 for the trade, do I pay the same £8 for £1000 as I would for £100 if you get me?

Anyone got any good reading to understand it more? Or any good communitys?
 
Playing the stocks is a very difficult and dangerous thing to do and requires a lot of in depth knowledge of the system. I noticed that a lot of you are speculators and basic theory easily shows that high profit comes hand in hand with high variance (risk).

Do any of you use any specialised models or theory to base your calculations or is it all based on word of mouth, rumours and big nads?

Also I noticed that most of you purchase your assets on the spot. Has anyone ever used derivatives such as futures, forwards or even options? Or planned out trading strategies? (ie shorting an asset -> using funds to go long in a forward then selling the asset on delivery and buying back the original shorted asset?)

Has anyone worried about the possibility of a gamble flopping and hedged? And has anyone ever had the luck to perform an arbitrage?

Its interesting to hear stories of how the normal people fair on the markets and kudos to you all! I def don't have the guts to give it a go. Not yet anyways.
 
blackapache said:
I've decided to start playing the stock market as well. I've done lots of research and have friends who are traders and brokers so believe I am in a comfortable position.
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I'm 99% certain you will lose money, DO NOT invest any more than you can live without. My advice to anyone starting this is to pretend the money you invested is gone, you've lost it all, and anything you get back is a bonus. Most people here are throwing a few hundred non essential pounds into beaten down stocks, which is fine.

Here's some tips on how to lose less...

Make sure you fully understand the industry, sector and business of whatever you're intending to buy.

Simple TA (technical analysis)...
Start here for looking at an entry into a stock, forget the formula just read the simple stuff, use it as a rough guide.


killari said:
Playing the stocks is a very difficult and dangerous thing to do and requires a lot of in depth knowledge of the system. I noticed that a lot of you are speculators and basic theory easily shows that high profit comes hand in hand with high variance (risk).

Do any of you use any specialised models or theory to base your calculations or is it all based on word of mouth, rumours and big nads?

Also I noticed that most of you purchase your assets on the spot. Has anyone ever used derivatives such as futures, forwards or even options? Or planned out trading strategies? (ie shorting an asset -> using funds to go long in a forward then selling the asset on delivery and buying back the original shorted asset?)
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I use options daily, selling out the money puts on ETFs is a good way of exploiting the volatility, also options are a good way of hedging when buying stocks. I also short as much as I go long, after a while you forget the difference, one is for up the other for down. Most brokers will offer margin, you can use this to increase your weighting, get it wrong and say hello to life in a cardboard box.

There's a running joke on wall street "when your taxi driver starts giving stock tips, start shorting", heed that advice i.e. when the public are buying up stocks fearing they'll miss the rally, it's usually at the top.
 
Solac said:
Daft wuestion I know, just trying to learn about stock trading, what classifies as a trade? If I buy £1000 worth of shares, and its £8 for the trade, do I pay the same £8 for £1000 as I would for £100 if you get me?
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I'd suspect it will vary from broker to broker - some will give you a fixed rate fee for any value of trade and others will give a variable rate (usually up to a maximum of X amount) depending on how large the trade is. If you're asking this question then I'd guess you are probably best going for one with a low fixed rate per trade as it seems unlikely you'll be trading huge amounts.
 
I've got some disposable spread around a few well known stocks. I'm tempted to go a lot deeper into RBS and Lloyds and hold for a year......my money isn't gaining interest and I can afford to lose it so..
 
Vanilla said:
I've got some disposable spread around a few well known stocks. I'm tempted to go a lot deeper into RBS and Lloyds and hold for a year......my money isn't gaining interest and I can afford to lose it so..
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That's where I'm at too. Seriously considering transferring my entire cash ISA balance into lloyds and rbs for the year. If lloyds hit 1.50 - 2.00 after the capitalisation that would be a very nice earner. If not then it still would be more than I'm currently getting in interest. Obviously there's a risk element, but right now it seems the risks are acceptable.

I think what mcat said earlier about considering your money lost is exactly right.
 
nero120 said:
That's where I'm at too. Seriously considering transferring my entire cash ISA balance into lloyds and rbs for the year. If lloyds hit 1.50 - 2.00 after the capitalisation that would be a very nice earner. If not then it still would be more than I'm currently getting in interest. Obviously there's a risk element, but right now it seems the risks are acceptable.

I think what mcat said earlier about considering your money lost is exactly right.
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Ahhh yes, I forgot about my ISA. I have my cash one just sitting there - off topic but is it easy to move it over to shares?

Anyway, I had RBS at 17p and 22p. I'm a short term holder, I take on a a lot of shares for the short terms rise, take 10-20% and jump out. I'm considering more long term now because it's not cash I need.

I'm hoping that the worst is over with RBS. They are giving their trading update soon, Friday I think and I hope that after last year all the losses have been put down and good news will be forthcoming.
 
mcast123 said:
Make sure you fully understand the industry, sector and business of whatever you're intending to buy.
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this would be a good start - try to lean a bit about what you're trading, what causes the price moves, how those same events are reflected in other instruments/products, how those other instruments/products are related, what edges are there you could think of exploiting....

Simple TA (technical analysis)...
Start here for looking at an entry into a stock, forget the formula just read the simple stuff, use it as a rough guide.
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be careful with this stuff - a lot of it is pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo - pure technical analysts claim everything they need to know is in the price - unfortunately there isn't much actual research supporting the techniques and the subjective techniques can instantly be discounted in the first place as they can't really be tested. There is perhpas some evidence to support the use of say moving averages but just be careful in relying on some magic jesus indicator telling you when to buy and sell - this stuff is very popular with retail traders/spread betters etc... because it is incredibly easy to learn to use and requires very little effort - though not surprisingly most people lose money.
 
semi-pro waster said:
I'd suspect it will vary from broker to broker - some will give you a fixed rate fee for any value of trade and others will give a variable rate (usually up to a maximum of X amount) depending on how large the trade is. If you're asking this question then I'd guess you are probably best going for one with a low fixed rate per trade as it seems unlikely you'll be trading huge amounts.
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Is there a company you would reccommend for a fixed amount per trade, was looking at Hoodless Brennan. I would be trading at max £1000, probably more the £250 mark.
 
dowie said:
this would be a good start - try to lean a bit about what you're trading, what causes the price moves, how those same events are reflected in other instruments/products, how those other instruments/products are related, what edges are there you could think of exploiting....



be careful with this stuff - a lot of it is pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo - pure technical analysts claim everything they need to know is in the price - unfortunately there isn't much actual research supporting the techniques and the subjective techniques can instantly be discounted in the first place as they can't really be tested. There is perhpas some evidence to support the use of say moving averages but just be careful in relying on some magic jesus indicator telling you when to buy and sell - this stuff is very popular with retail traders/spread betters etc... because it is incredibly easy to learn to use and requires very little effort - though not surprisingly most people lose money.
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Yeah you really need to take the meanings and implications of models and ratios and indices with a pinch of salt.

A good example where things could go wrong is if you take "averages" for granted without really understanding what they represent.

Heres a trivial example: say you enter a (free) bet where you could win £18 w.p 4/12 and "win" -£9 w.p 8/12. Then the average (or expected value) is £0. And a lot of people will think "Oh the worse I can do is break even and gain nothing." However its obvious by examining the scenario that after 1,2,...(small number of bets) that you won't end up with this number and you are far more likely to be worse off. What the expected value really reflects is the mean value you will have if you make the same wager over and over again for a large number of samples (LLN).

Its really scary how some people foolishly pick up an introductory book and think after reading the first chapter that applying formulae without knowing their meaning will make them big bucks.
 
Solac said:
Is there a company you would reccommend for a fixed amount per trade, was looking at Hoodless Brennan. I would be trading at max £1000, probably more the £250 mark.
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I don't really know the best for your situation to be honest, I'm working for a company called Alliance Trust at the moment and they do fixed rate dealing for £12.50 a trade (info here) but you'd need to investigate what would work best for you really as that works out as 6.25% per trade which is a fair amount I suppose given the relatively small amounts you are looking at trading, I don't think you get advice from trades from them but it isn't the area I work in, they do however have no annual charges - I don't know about Hoodless Brennan or any of the others.
 
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Can you lot recommend me a decent broker; I am sick to death with Barclays. The website was so slow yesterday it took 9 min to put a deal in and another 20 min before it was dealt. That cost me around 3.5k as they had gone up by the time the deal went through.

I do make quite a few trades per month; they are not that small so i don’t mind paying a little extra for a fast reliable service.
 
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