Transgender MTF picked for Olympics weightlifting

Seems that an enormously disproportionate amount of gammon in justice is being levelled at one trans athlete when other factors such as the month of your birth have far more impact on a persons likelihood to make it to the elite level. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect

We don't segregate events by month of birth - can you not grasp why that isn't relevant here? That's something for various sports bodies to consider as they're clearly going to miss out on developing some talent.

Maybe its about time you gave it a go and see if it works out for you as well.

That's a poor argument too, a common one but people forget that we're talking about the tail end of the distributions here.

This. It's the only way people will take note.

Or that he/she gets beaten by a "real" woman, and he/she can accept that he wasn't good enough for men's nor good enough in the women's competition.

I think you can't win here. (S)he can't compete with men now, nor can (s)he fairly compete with women - so either create a new league, or don't compete... it's like a bug that's been discovered in code, no one knows it was there until someone discovered it.

We've sort of had it already though with intersex athletes, though there is a layer of obfuscation there in that the average man in the street is a bit unaware of the issue there, one poster earlier made an objection based on the assumption Semenya is female, another poster gave a rather muddled/confused reply to a brief comment about intersex people as presumably, he's just not aware of the issues.

The controversy with Semenya and a few others instead turned into a big racial thing, portrayed in some quarters as the international community trying to stop strong African women from using all of their natural abilities etc... when Lynsey Sharp spoke out after the 800m final in the 2016 Olympics she got loads of flack for it, what people didn't grasp is that the first three athletes in that race were all sus, Lindsay in 6th place would have been a bronze medal winner, the whole race would have been different.

There is a compromise for intersex in the form of testosterone suppression, still only reduced to a very high level of a woman! But testosterone isn't the only sex-based advantage as we'll see when testosterone-suppressed trans women start to compete.

We've decided to be hypersensitive in pandering to these rather small minorities of people who will clearly have an inbuilt (male) advantage in women's events, which is why women's events were segregated form men's to begin with.

edit - you can see how hypersensitive it is in places like Africa, it's reported as a targeted attack on Semenya and treated as some complaint that some African women simply look masculine, the sex thing is barely mentioned/glossed over and a racist thing:


Comments section:

Pux0m8r.png
 
Last edited:
It could be in the future we don't have arbitrary gender segmentation, but instead testosterone groups.

In one you'd have all the Jamaicans and African heritage runners and another the Percival and Walter's and Sandra's of the world.

TBH just create a "cheating olympics" where anything goes.

Rocket rollerskates for the 100m, or Mike Tyson to box against women for gold. Knock yourself out :D

I think it would get more viewers than the actual olympics, just to see who ends up dead.
 
TBH just create a "cheating olympics" where anything goes.

Rocket rollerskates for the 100m, or Mike Tyson to box against women for gold. Knock yourself out :D

I've always wanted to see what the 100m could be done if we just pumped some poor soul full of PEDS. Sub 6 seconds, why not
 
Please explain the logic of banning Women competing against Women?

It's not a women though, it's a man claiming to be a women. Not everyone is onboard with this fantasy. Unless they can provide DNA proof that they changed their sex, it doesn't exist.

Whats worse is he looks like he just rolled out of the pub. He is in nowhere near as good shape as the women and just relying on the male strength advantage.
 
Please explain the logic of banning Women competing against Women?

If, by "women", you mean the gender identity then it's pretty simple to explain.

Males, as a group, have a natural advantage over females in almost all athletic events as a result of this we have separate men's and women's events in sport so that females can compete and be represented too.

A male identifying as a woman still has those male advantages, they might suppress testosterone bit but that's only part of it, in competing they undermine the purpose of the separate events.
 
Supressing testosterone won't do much if they have spent 90% of their time training without doing it. They have still built up a huge bulk of muscle and bone mass. They look like men, they have a male build.
 
Please explain the logic of banning Women competing against Women?
There is nothing wrong with women competing against women, they have there own separate women only events for that so its a level playing field.
This a trans women competing against women though, they are not the same no matter what the "rules" say.
 
Yeah, I've zero problems with anyone who wishes to identify as the opposite sex, and would happily defend their rights to equality, but when it comes to sport there is simply too much of an obvious scientific basis to not limit male/female sports to your biological sex/gender.

When it's so obvious how unequal this act of 'equality' is, you have to think Dunning Kruger could make this another case study..
 
I've read the first few pages of this thread and as per usual it's the same people on each side arguing with each other...
To me it comes across as arguing for arguings sake tbh lol ;)
Surely common sense should prevail in this argument about men wanting to be women and then competing against real women? but no it seems it's yet another thing to virtue signal over?
How does a man know what is feels like to be a woman? All he knows is that he feels less alpha and more feminine huh?
Have the term transvestite and ladyboy been written out of the history books now?
My opinion is just let it happen and let this political trans movement into sport eat it self and die, 5 years from now it will have all been resolved when sane people just tell them to go away I suppose.
On the flip side though, Should a female athlete who's transitioned to male be forced to compete against real men? Are there any?
 
Last edited:
One point I haven't seen anyone raise is that this isn't a one way street, in ultrarunning women routinely beat out the mens field. Have a look at athletes like Jasmin Paris

Yes the single sport where women are out-performing men is in ultra ultra long-distance stuff. At 5km men are about 20% faster, once you get to marathons it's a little over 10%. At 100 miles men are less than 1% faster but by 200 miles women are about half a % faster.

There's research showing as the distances get longer, men get progressively worse at pacing themselves compared to women which may explain some of this, and if ultra-long stuff becomes more commercialised/professional and you get more serious coaching it'd be interesting to see what effect this has on times. On the flip-side the primary source of fuel when doing extended aerobic work like this is fat, and physiologically females can metabolise fat for energy slightly more efficiently than men, so it may be that across these ultra-long distances they fatigue ever so slightly slower and the advantage will always be maintained.

This is something that a lot of people don't understand, men are on the whole outperform women at certain sports - it's nothing to do with sexism or anything else, it's just biology. Heck Serena Williams was beaten by men seeded in the 100s convincingly, and yet she's arguably one of the best female tennis players out there.

Open category makes a lot of sense. I mean men and women compete now in snooker right? And motor racing as well? So for these sort of sports where physicality is an important factor an open category would actually be quite fun, it would be a sort of free for all!

It's literally ALL sports - except the notable exception of the ultra-long endurance stuff above - with any athletic component at least, and it shows to me how little attention or experience a lot of people have when it comes to sport in general.

Yes where it can be open it should IMO: racing requires some fitness (and ability to withstand G-forces in the case of motor stuff) but obviously the vehicles or horses make far more difference in the outcome than the athleticism of the human. Same for games that are sports. No reason to segregate there other than an old boy's club mentality.
 
There was a thing a while ago where Serena Williams was all like 'I am better than any man, I challenge any man to play me in Tennis'.

Some average ranked guy took on the challenge and surprise surprise completely smashed her.

Props to her for actually trying to take on male tennis players though.
 
Doesn't change the fact they went through puberty as a male giving them a multitude of advantages that testosterone levels have little effect on.
The rules need to be updated, this person is going to possibly take away awards from biological women which isn't right purely based on there biology.
I remember looking into testostrone levels between men and women and from memory i think the differences starts in the womb. When a women is pregnant with a male, their body produces more testostrone compared to if they had been pregnant with a female and before puberty test levels in males are a few percentage point higher than females.
 
Last edited:
There was a thing a while ago where Serena Williams was all like 'I am better than any man, I challenge any man to play me in Tennis'.

Some average ranked guy took on the challenge and surprise surprise completely smashed her.

Props to her for actually trying to take on male tennis players though.

Check her testosterone and compare her to Katie Boutler.

Screenshot-20210621-184707-Chrome.jpg


Screenshot-20210621-184730-Chrome.jpg


Good luck Katie!
 
Yes the single sport where women are out-performing men is in ultra ultra long-distance stuff. At 5km men are about 20% faster, once you get to marathons it's a little over 10%. At 100 miles men are less than 1% faster but by 200 miles women are about half a % faster.

There's research showing as the distances get longer, men get progressively worse at pacing themselves compared to women which may explain some of this, and if ultra-long stuff becomes more commercialised/professional and you get more serious coaching it'd be interesting to see what effect this has on times. On the flip-side the primary source of fuel when doing extended aerobic work like this is fat, and physiologically females can metabolise fat for energy slightly more efficiently than men, so it may be that across these ultra-long distances they fatigue ever so slightly slower and the advantage will always be maintained.



It's literally ALL sports - except the notable exception of the ultra-long endurance stuff above - with any athletic component at least, and it shows to me how little attention or experience a lot of people have when it comes to sport in general.

Yes where it can be open it should IMO: racing requires some fitness (and ability to withstand G-forces in the case of motor stuff) but obviously the vehicles or horses make far more difference in the outcome than the athleticism of the human. Same for games that are sports. No reason to segregate there other than an old boy's club mentality.
All hail Courtney Dauwalter.

https://youtu.be/BbS32MAurnQ
 
Back
Top Bottom