Transgender MTF picked for Olympics weightlifting

Roar87 said:
What if Hubbard breaks some records, how do you think the women who held those records will feel? Should there be an asterix next to Hubbards name stating that she was born male? In basically every single event, a man could choose to compete as a woman and break world records, and because of the accolades at stake that will inevitably happen, so how does female athletics have any integrity at all? It no longer does and I feel sorry for any girl growing up who wants to be a professional athlete.
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There doesn't currently seem to be a concerted effort by the other competitors to boycott on the basis of this, that may change though if Hubbard wins a medal or get's a record i suppose. But I stick by my guns that the public will not care enough, if it just stays as Hubbard currently, that there will not be enough pressure on the ICO to reconsider the rules.
Also a Man can't simply declare himself a woman and compete, he has take testosterone inhibitors for a period of time so that those levels are in line with what the ICO has declared 'normal' for a woman.
 
As has been said by many, many experts - it doesn't matter how "inhibited" someone is; the very fact they went through pubity as a male gives them an unfair disadvantage.
Why should women boycott? Whereas I can see the power women would have by doing such a thing, at the end of the day this is what they have spent many hours training to do and they should be allowed to compete - but you know....on a level playing field.
 
MikeTheNative said:
There doesn't currently seem to be a concerted effort by the other competitors to boycott on the basis of this, that may change though if Hubbard wins a medal or get's a record i suppose. But I stick by my guns that the public will not care enough, if it just stays as Hubbard currently, that there will not be enough pressure on the ICO to reconsider the rules.
Also a Man can't simply declare himself a woman and compete, he has take testosterone inhibitors for a period of time so that those levels are in line with what the ICO has declared 'normal' for a woman.
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Doesn't change the fact they went through puberty as a male giving them a multitude of advantages that testosterone levels have little effect on.
The rules need to be updated, this person is going to possibly take away awards from biological women which isn't right purely based on there biology.
 
MatsyLR said:
Doesn't change the fact they went through puberty as a male giving them a multitude of advantages that testosterone levels have little effect on.
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I'm not talking about if it's right or wrong, as I said previously I don't think Hubbard should compete.
A lot of posters don't know what they are talking about with this so just trying to correct people on what the actual rules are.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Swings and roundabouts.
Running medals are for black people, swimming medals are for white people.:D

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It could be in the future we don't have arbitrary gender segmentation, but instead testosterone groups.

In one you'd have all the Jamaicans and African heritage runners and another the Percival and Walter's and Sandra's of the world.
 
fendi said:
he is the guy that almost lost to conor mcgregor
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You must have watched a different fight. McGregor having a better start does not equate to him almost winning. Mayweather played the long game, as everyone expected because McGregor's style results in strong fatigue after a few rounds.
 
MadMossy said:
I hope all the actual women, refuse to compete on the day and just walk off.
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This. It's the only way people will take note.

Or that he/she gets beaten by a "real" woman, and he/she can accept that he wasn't good enough for men's nor good enough in the women's competition.

I think you can't win here. (S)he can't compete with men now, nor can (s)he fairly compete with women - so either create a new league, or don't compete... it's like a bug that's been discovered in code, no one knows it was there until someone discovered it.
 
Freefaller said:
This. It's the only way people will take note.

Or that he/she gets beaten by a "real" woman, and he/she can accept that he wasn't good enough for men's nor good enough in the women's competition.

I think you can't win here. (S)he can't compete with men now, nor can (s)he fairly compete with women - so either create a new league, or don't compete... it's like a bug that's been discovered in code, no one knows it was there until someone discovered it.
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I think in the coding analogy there were probably missing requirements as I'm sure humans have been running, lifting and throwing far longer than this has been something that might happen
 
Freefaller said:
This. It's the only way people will take note.

Or that he/she gets beaten by a "real" woman, and he/she can accept that he wasn't good enough for men's nor good enough in the women's competition.

I think you can't win here. (S)he can't compete with men now, nor can (s)he fairly compete with women - so either create a new league, or don't compete... it's like a bug that's been discovered in code, no one knows it was there until someone discovered it.
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But people have pointed out for years this was going to happen. They just weren't listened to.
 
We should just have an Open category and a women's - this already exists in some sports it's just you obviously don't seen anything other than men playing because... shock horror, men outperform women (at the equivalent ability level) by a much greater degree than the difference in ability among men at the same level. The 1-2% margins that decide results can swing either way on a given day but a 10-30% advantage is insurmountable - elite male schoolboys regularly break women's Olympic records and this gap only widens as the boys become men.
 
Dis86 said:
But people have pointed out for years this was going to happen. They just weren't listened to.
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I think there was little incentive to try and tackle this ahead of time as whatever updates to the rules are made it's going to displease someone. It's loose/loose so better just to kick the can down the road.
 
simc1978 said:
I think there was little incentive to try and tackle this ahead of time as whatever updates to the rules are made it's going to displease someone. It's loose/loose so better just to kick the can down the road.
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This is the gist of the issue, it wasn't a problem when there was no MtF athletes that will be able to compete at the top. The rules look inclusive but ICO hope they get around the issue by just not having to deal with it.
 
simc1978 said:
I think in the coding analogy there were probably missing requirements as I'm sure humans have been running, lifting and throwing far longer than this has been something that might happen
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Yes I think is all relatively new and the sport / society as a whole is still adapting to all this change.

Dis86 said:
But people have pointed out for years this was going to happen. They just weren't listened to.
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In the grand scheme of humanity though this is a new development, and a very small minority. That doesn't negate their importance, but it's hard to prioritise the minority in some things that seem trivial to the wider society. i.e. weightlifting is less of a priority than generally getting better equality around the world.

Somnambulist said:
We should just have an Open category and a women's - this already exists in some sports it's just you obviously don't seen anything other than men playing because... shock horror, men outperform women (at the equivalent ability level) by a much greater degree than the difference in ability among men at the same level. The 1-2% margins that decide results can swing either way on a given day but a 10-30% advantage is insurmountable - elite male schoolboys regularly break women's Olympic records and this gap only widens as the boys become men.
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This is something that a lot of people don't understand, men are on the whole outperform women at certain sports - it's nothing to do with sexism or anything else, it's just biology. Heck Serena Williams was beaten by men seeded in the 100s convincingly, and yet she's arguably one of the best female tennis players out there.

Open category makes a lot of sense. I mean men and women compete now in snooker right? And motor racing as well? So for these sort of sports where physicality is an important factor an open category would actually be quite fun, it would be a sort of free for all!
 
I'm now waiting for Floyd Mayweather and Tyson Fury to join the female boxing division. Seems fair.

Isn't there already a MTF MMA fighter that people thought was ridiculous.

As Joe Rogan says 'You're a ******* Man' at least in this tournament no-one will get physically hurt by it.
 
One point I haven't seen anyone raise is that this isn't a one way street, in ultrarunning women routinely beat out the mens field. Have a look at athletes like Jasmin Paris
 
robgmun said:
6% see themselves as LGBTQ+, I always thought they greatly exaggerated the amount gay people back in the 90's when growing up but a recent survay showed that only 6% see themselves as anything other than straight.
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Whilst it won't account for much there would definitely be peer pressure (compounded by the persecution/violence) in older generations holding many back from reporting an accurate assessment of their orientation. I figure that the explicitly non-heterosexual identifiers won't really ever go beyond 10%, but in my view there is likely to be a proportion of those that identify as explicitly heterosexual that are more fluid with their intimacies and it's just easier to tick the box that their straight than to nebulously say they're 'bi' or 'other' when they may not consider it worth differentiating.
 
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